Was REM the DMB before DMB?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Both great songs. I still see Dave every time he comes through town. Like CNC, I saw them at the Ritz in Raleigh fall of 94, I believe. One of the best shows I’ve ever been to.

The weird part is that even though it’s coming up on 30 years since I went to that first show, both me and the band are still quite young.

Sorry I missed you at the show! I just confirmed my memory and it was the third concert of the tour, right after Charlottesville and Richmond. A great 90s band from NJ called From Good Homes opened - they had a solid career but never took off like DMB.

My research also confirmed my memory that when I saw them at Wait Chapel at Wake a month later, Rusted Root opened - another great 90s jam band. Their hit song Send me on my Way was revived a few years ago in an Enterprise commercial that was on a lot.

Last summer I was in Charlottesville and made a quick visit to the vineyard Dave Matthews owns. I was boring some of the kids who work there with stories about DMB concerts I went to before they were born. Apparently he is there fairly often. I am not a wine aficionado but I recommend it for anyone in the area.

[bludev]

I'm in this camp.

Real big fan of early REM ... Murmur was unlike anything I'd heard at the time and it got me hooked ... oddly appealing vocals and that chiming Rickenbacker. Played that record so much I think my parents thought there was something wrong with me. Along with Mike Mills, I always thought Bill Berry was an unsung hero in that band ... when he left, they were never the same.

[Billy Dat]

Asisde from the differences others have pointed out, I think the primary difference is the speed with which each band got famous. After their start-up circa 1980, REM had a much slower build between releasing Murmur in 1983 and Out of Time in 1991. While much of their lauded work is contained in those first 5 albums, it wasn't until "Losing My Religion" off of Out of Time that they had a major worldwide hit. With "Under the Table and Dreaming", DMB seemed to explode. Like many others, I also saw them for the first time on the Duke Quad. They used to open for Phish, which I saw them do at Lawrence Joel in WS in 93 or 94, and then, suddenly, they were playing stadiums. I see DMB as much more of a meteor that burned bright and faded leaving devoted fans who are currently between 40-55 whereas REM is considered a much more critically important band.

In fact, I think comparing DMB to Hootie is a more apt comparison. While I was at Duke, Hootie actually played a sorority formal. A few years later they were everywhere with "Hold My Hand" and "I Only Wanna Be With You" only to suffer a similarly rapid decline with their enduring legacy really being Darius Rucker's massive career as a C&W artist. Don't get me wrong, DMB is a couple of levels up from Hootie in critical respect and esteem, but both are well below REM.

[moonpie23]

you should read Tim Sommer's (A & R Rep for Atlantic Records who signed Hootie) book " Only wanna be with you" about the meteoric rise of Hootie & the Blowfish...there is a load of info regarding the ties that bind bands like DMB, REM, Edwin Mcain, Sister Hazel, Johnny Quest, and Cravin' Melon to each other. Mostly about how the Greek fraternities and sororities, had on the early development/popularity of those groups...

[CDu]

Asisde from the differences others have pointed out, I think the primary difference is the speed with which each band got famous. After their start-up circa 1980, REM had a much slower build between releasing Murmur in 1983 and Out of Time in 1991. While much of their lauded work is contained in those first 5 albums, it wasn't until "Losing My Religion" off of Out of Time that they had a major worldwide hit. With "Under the Table and Dreaming", DMB seemed to explode. Like many others, I also saw them for the first time on the Duke Quad. They used to open for Phish, which I saw them do at Lawrence Joel in WS in 93 or 94, and then, suddenly, they were playing stadiums. I see DMB as much more of a meteor that burned bright and faded leaving devoted fans who are currently between 40-55 whereas REM is considered a much more critically important band.

In fact, I think comparing DMB to Hootie is a more apt comparison. While I was at Duke, Hootie actually played a sorority formal. A few years later they were everywhere with "Hold My Hand" and "I Only Wanna Be With You" only to suffer a similarly rapid decline with their enduring legacy really being Darius Rucker's massive career as a C&W artist. Don't get me wrong, DMB is a couple of levels up from Hootie in critical respect and esteem, but both are well below REM.

I think this is selling DMB short, as their second album was an even bigger hit than their first (and albums 3-6 went platinum as well). I don't think DMB had a rapid decline at all. But their rise was certainly MUCH faster than REM's (REM's Document and Green were top-10ish albums, but Out of Time was when they really exploded).

I agree that DMB is well short of REM overall (album sales suggest as such, over 90 million REM albums sold compared with just under 40 million DMB albums sold). But DMB had WAY more staying power than Hootie, and arguably has had as much or more than even REM (DMB has had 7 Billboard #1 albums, REM has had just 1 but 7 total top-5 albums).

[aimo]

you should read Tim Sommer's (A & R Rep for Atlantic Records who signed Hootie) book " Only wanna be with you" about the meteoric rise of Hootie & the Blowfish...there is a load of info regarding the ties that bind bands like DMB, REM, Edwin Mcain, Sister Hazel, Johnny Quest, and Cravin' Melon to each other. Mostly about how the Greek fraternities and sororities, had on the early development/popularity of those groups...

And Ziggy's. Don't forget Ziggy's in Winston. I think they all played there at some point.

[Kdogg]

you should read Tim Sommer's (A & R Rep for Atlantic Records who signed Hootie) book " Only wanna be with you" about the meteoric rise of Hootie & the Blowfish...there is a load of info regarding the ties that bind bands like DMB, REM, Edwin Mcain, Sister Hazel, Johnny Quest, and Cravin' Melon to each other. Mostly about how the Greek fraternities and sororities, had on the early development/popularity of those groups...

Leads to the question: Will we ever see bands like that ever again? The music industry has changed so much. It’s more democratized but also more fragmented. Rock music, as a whole, has been in decline in popularity for years now. I’m well past the age of building my fandom of an up and coming gem. Even the one who succeed today don’t reach the highs of their predecessors.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

you should read Tim Sommer's (A & R Rep for Atlantic Records who signed Hootie) book " Only wanna be with you" about the meteoric rise of Hootie & the Blowfish...there is a load of info regarding the ties that bind bands like DMB, REM, Edwin Mcain, Sister Hazel, Johnny Quest, and Cravin' Melon to each other. Mostly about how the Greek fraternities and sororities, had on the early development/popularity of those groups...

In that era I prided myself on trying to find up and coming bands like those. There were a series of albums called "AWARE" that were compilations of those types of groups and were great for learning about new bands - some of my favorites were Edwin McCain, Vertical Horizon, Guster. Ben Folds Five sort of evolved from that world too - I was a huge fan of theirs. Freddy Jones Band was fun. Blues Traveler really hit it big. The Samples had a slightly different style but were also in that world. I mentioned Rusted Root above. My high school friends went to school all over the country so we would exchange notes and bootlegs when home for breaks.

Many of them passed through the Cats Cradle, as well as similar venues (never went to Ziggys but you are 100% correct about that one) around the country. A few played on campus at Duke at various times - in less than two years Dave Matthews went from playing frat quad parties at Duke (I think it was SAE?) to Cameron. It was all generally upbeat, positive music without quite being top 40, though some of them made stops there.

I don't think this can happen again for some of the reasons cited. I'm sure there are plenty of great bands playing good music at college bars and the like, but the music business is just so different now.

[ClemmonsDevil]

And Ziggy's. Don't forget Ziggy's in Winston. I think they all played there at some point.

I saw pretty much every single one of them there.

[cato]

I wouldn’t group DMB with Hootie. REM would be closer to the mark as a pop band fueled by the college circuit, but both are vastly different.

In fact, I wouldn’t group DMB with anyone. They are a unique band that has created a unique body of work and continue to headline tours 3 decades into their run. People have already mentioned the Dead and Phish, but Allman Brothers or Gov’t Mule may be closer to the mark in terms of musical roots and showmanship.

[Oriole Way]

Leads to the question: Will we ever see bands like that ever again? The music industry has changed so much. It’s more democratized but also more fragmented. Rock music, as a whole, has been in decline in popularity for years now. I’m well past the age of building my fandom of an up and coming gem. Even the one who succeed today don’t reach the highs of their predecessors.

We will see bands like that less frequently, but there are other bands that have had similar career arcs within the past 10-15 years. I'd offer The Killers and Muse as examples of huge currently active bands that are extremely popular. Music is consumed much differently now, so we can't compare record sales of bands like R.E.M. and DMB to more contemporary bands like The Killers and Muse. Even though both The Killers and Muse are more popular in the UK and Europe compared to the U.S., both of those bands sell out arenas and amphitheaters in the States just like R.E.M. and DMB did at their peaks (DMB still does).

R.E.M. has always been my favorite band, and I was also a DMB nut for about a decade. Glad to see a thread discussing both.

[ClemmonsDevil]

We will see bands like that less frequently, but there are other bands that have had similar career arcs within the past 10-15 years. I'd offer The Killers and Muse as examples of huge currently active bands that are extremely popular. Music is consumed much differently now, so we can't compare record sales of bands like R.E.M. and DMB to more contemporary bands like The Killers and Muse. Even though both The Killers and Muse are more popular in the UK and Europe compared to the U.S., both of those bands sell out arenas and amphitheaters in the States just like R.E.M. and DMB did at their peaks (DMB still does).

R.E.M. has always been my favorite band, and I was also a DMB nut for about a decade. Glad to see a thread discussing both.

Agree with this. And I like both The Killers and Muse. Also I am assuming from your name that you are a big Orioles fan. If wr were talking about baseball then I would probably be unable to make eye contact with you and I would treat you like you had a terminal illness. Proud franchise. I'm just sorry man. I have this overwhelming need to give you a fruit basket or something. You don't deserve this

[WillJ]

Automatic for the People is, in my view, is one of the best albums of all time - the standout in the REM oeuvre by a good margin. I don't know DMB's work anywhere near as well, but I believe that there is nothing in DMB's catalog that speaks so effectively to sadness and depression...but then very few artists have such an album. I don't know what combination of events within the band led to its creation, but there was one summer when my wife and I played this album over and over and over again, and it really helped us. I'm genuinely grateful.

We also saw them perform Murmur at Page in 1983...as the opening act for The English Beat!

[aimo]

I saw pretty much every single one of them there.

Spin Doctors played at Ziggy's for our Greek Week one year.

[cato]

I don't know DMB's work anywhere near as well, but I believe that there is nothing in DMB's catalog that speaks so effectively to sadness and depression...but then very few artists have such an album.

Give Busted Stuff a whirl.

[Oriole Way]

Agree with this. And I like both The Killers and Muse. Also I am assuming from your name that you are a big Orioles fan. If wr were talking about baseball then I would probably be unable to make eye contact with you and I would treat you like you had a terminal illness. Proud franchise. I'm just sorry man. I have this overwhelming need to give you a fruit basket or something. You don't deserve this

Yep I'm a huge Orioles fan unfortunately! I'm always loyal to my teams no matter what, but it's an interesting contrast being both a Duke bball fan (always winning and competing for championships) and an Orioles fan (mostly a last place kind of team for the past 25 years aside from a few playoff appearances from 2012-2016).

Sorry to go off-topic, but I'm actually super high on my Orioles for the next 5-10 years, though. Our farm system is stacked and we've been turning the corner this season. I think the O's will be a perennial playoff team for quite some time starting next year, and believe it or not, I think the Orioles will outperform the New York Yankees for the next decade starting in 2023. And I say that despite the Yankees' great record this season, which I think is a mirage.

But getting back to the topic, definitely agree with WillJ above who said that Automatic For The People is one of the best albums of all time. It's truly a masterpiece, and anyone who hasn't listened to the whole album and likes R.E.M. even just a little bit should give it a listen.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Spin Doctors played at Ziggy's for our Greek Week one year.

You probably ignored me or shot me down there at least once. You're a good decision maker.

[Oriole Way]

Give Busted Stuff a whirl.

I second this recommendation! I also recommend hitting YouTube to listen to The Lillywhite Sessions, which were earlier recordings of many of the songs which wound up on Busted Stuff (and produced by legendary producer Steve Lillywhite, who produced DMB's first three studio albums). A few of the songs are either slightly slower tempo ("Captain", "Big-Eyed Fish", "Grace Is Gone") or just hit the "sadness" theme/feel even more than the Busted Stuff versions do.

I have to share "Grey Street" from the Lillywhite Sessions, which is perhaps my favorite all-time DMB song and all about depression: https://youtu.be/aKFnkqHDF8s

"Captain": https://youtu.be/0cBNUk750Pg

"Big-Eyed Fish": https://youtu.be/kYTcrGpytX4

"Grace Is Gone": https://youtu.be/1oV3gHqn0DI

[OldPhiKap]

I saw Phish open for Col. Bruce Hampton on New Year’s Eve at the Variety Playhouse in Little Five Points (Atlanta).

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I saw Phish open for Col. Bruce Hampton on New Year’s Eve at the Variety Playhouse in Little Five Points (Atlanta).

What year was that? I just checked phish.net and there are no New Year’s shows at Variety.

The only time I saw them was actually in Atl at Lakewood in summer 98. It was fun but probably not the best venue. I have been invited to some of their shows around New Years in NYC but have never gone.