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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I'm not so sure that KD's reputation is as pure as you see it. Lots of folks chastised him for leaving OKC to go ring hunting with Curry. Then he caught flak for how he left GSW for Brooklyn. Now, after moving heaven and earth for Durant, he seems hell-bent on burning down the building on the way out.

    He's never sniffed a bit of trouble that would get him real bad juju, but combine that with his incredibly sensitive social media presence and his burner accounts... I suspect he isn't the most loved personality in the league.

    But, he's a helluva talent. One of the greatest scorers we've ever seen.
    He is moody, and has a wandering eye. If I played with Russell Westbrook, Draymond Green and Ben Simmons, I would likely have a wandering eye too.

    But what is hard to understand, is KD seems to be miffed about the Nets treatment of Kyrie. Kyrie made his bed. He cost KD a peak season. Why remain loyal when it does not go both ways?

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    He is moody, and has a wandering eye. If I played with Russell Westbrook, Draymond Green and Ben Simmons, I would likely have a wandering eye too.

    But what is hard to understand, is KD seems to be miffed about the Nets treatment of Kyrie. Kyrie made his bed. He cost KD a peak season. Why remain loyal when it does not go both ways?
    Honestly, I thought the Nets were incredibly patient and lenient with Kyrie. Additionally - I don't by any stretch agree with Kyrie's stance on vaccines - I think Kyrie handled himself fairly respectfully through that as well. My interpretation was the NBA said players should get vaxxed, Kyrie didn't want to. The laws wouldn't allow Kyrie to play home games. Kyrie stuck to his guns. The Nets decided to pay him and let him play in away games until laws allowed him to play. I never heard Kyrie whining about not being able to play - he knew the consequences.

    But that's just one man's opinion.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    He is moody, and has a wandering eye. If I played with Russell Westbrook, Draymond Green and Ben Simmons, I would likely have a wandering eye too.
    You forgot to mention KI, who would make just about any teammate wish to abandon Kyrie’s looney ship that is about to sail off the edge of the earth.

    And Draymond is a jackass at times, particularly with his on-court behavior towards opponents, but he is considered to be a very valuable and well-liked teammate.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    You forgot to mention KI, who would make just about any teammate wish to abandon Kyrie’s looney ship that is about to sail off the edge of the earth.

    And Draymond is a jackass at times, particularly with his on-court behavior towards opponents, but he is considered to be a very valuable and well-liked teammate.
    I don't think Durant gets to complain about Irving, since they were clearly a package deal to the Nets and wanted to play together.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I don't think Durant gets to complain about Irving, since they were clearly a package deal to the Nets and wanted to play together.
    Okay, that seems like a reasonably logical and fair point. So Kevin, please stop whining and just shut up and dribble!

    Joking. 😉

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Okay, that seems like a reasonably logical and fair point. So Kevin, please stop whining and just shut up and dribble!

    Joking. 😉
    I mean, if you take him at his word (obviously that's optional) he's miffed with the Nets front office. Why? Who knows. Because of the Harden/Simmons trade? Because of Kyrie treatment? Because of Steve Nash?

    Lots of theories. Durant doesn't seem to mind letting the public draw their own conclusions about these things I guess.

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I mean, if you take him at his word (obviously that's optional) he's miffed with the Nets front office. Why? Who knows. Because of the Harden/Simmons trade? Because of Kyrie treatment? Because of Steve Nash?

    Lots of theories. Durant doesn't seem to mind letting the public draw their own conclusions about these things I guess.

    So Durant demands a trade at the end of June, allegedly because Kyrie was not offered the max. Then when there's no acceptable offers and Kyrie opts in to his final contract year, Durant says he wants Nash and Marks gone.

    This is player entitlement, not player empowerment. Durant has been handed every last thing he asked for, from Nash to Harden to Deandre Jordan. It fell apart because of Durant and Kyrie, not because of coaching management or ownership. He owns this and he should be treated as such.

    The Nets will probably have more leverage at the trade deadline when newly signed player can be traded (Deandre Ayton) or if a team is under-performing (Miami, Boston, Toronto). It also looks like the Lakers are the only suitor for Kyrie, and they know it. So LA management may condition a trade for Kyrie on an additional year or two out of Lebron.

    All this shows that Durant got everything he wanted, it did not work for a bundle of reasons, and now there is no good way out. He's going to have to simmer in it, which is going to be miserable to watch because he's moody.

  8. #508
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    NBA reporters on Twitter are saying Durant wants to be traded to the Celtics and wants to play with Marcus Smart. Presumably, that means the Celtics would deal Jaylen Brown and some picks. They have said that Tatum is untouchable. If Boston wants to make it happen, I think that deal can be done.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  9. #509
    https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/...-proposal-nba/
    According to The Boston Globe's Adam Himmelsbach, the Nets asked for Tatum AND Brown for KD. It seems that the delusions in Brooklyn aren't limited to the players. Someone needs to examine the sage that Kyrie's been burning around there.

  10. #510
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Meany View Post
    https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/...-proposal-nba/
    According to The Boston Globe's Adam Himmelsbach, the Nets asked for Tatum AND Brown for KD. It seems that the delusions in Brooklyn aren't limited to the players. Someone needs to examine the sage that Kyrie's been burning around there.
    Well, is that really that delusional? Despite his mercurial nature, KD is one of the Top 3 (if not better) players in the NBA currently, has been so for the past half decade or so, and is just starting a long-term contract. Tatum is a star, and could get to the level of KD, but I don't think he's there yet... and even if you argue he was at that level last year (which is a viable, albeit challenging, argument to make), he hasn't shown yet that he can do so consistently (which isn't his fault, just a factor of his youth).

    Weird metaphor incoming, but here goes nothing: if you were playing your favorite sports video game, would the AI accept a trade in which you sent a 90 OVR player (even with a 99 potential) and an 85 OVR player for a 99 OVR player on a four year contract? Probably not without some more assets, especially in basketball where a team can win with one transcendent talent. I love Jayson and think there's every potential that he could become a KD level player, but he isn't there yet, and in the NBA there's a big value gap between "generational" players and "All-NBA" players.

    I give the Nets credit for having the attitude of: "A player of KD's caliber has never been openly available on the trade market, so we're justifiably going to ask for a never-before-seen package to get him." How that plays out is still to be determined, but it's certainly a better strategy than to give into KD's whims and get a good-not-great return that means they'll be a middling team for the next half-decade. KD's entitled to want out of Brooklyn, but the Nets don't owe him anything at this point.
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  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Well, is that really that delusional? Despite his mercurial nature, KD is one of the Top 3 (if not better) players in the NBA currently, has been so for the past half decade or so, and is just starting a long-term contract. Tatum is a star, and could get to the level of KD, but I don't think he's there yet... and even if you argue he was at that level last year (which is a viable, albeit challenging, argument to make), he hasn't shown yet that he can do so consistently (which isn't his fault, just a factor of his youth).

    Weird metaphor incoming, but here goes nothing: if you were playing your favorite sports video game, would the AI accept a trade in which you sent a 90 OVR player (even with a 99 potential) and an 85 OVR player for a 99 OVR player on a four year contract? Probably not without some more assets, especially in basketball where a team can win with one transcendent talent. I love Jayson and think there's every potential that he could become a KD level player, but he isn't there yet, and in the NBA there's a big value gap between "generational" players and "All-NBA" players.

    I give the Nets credit for having the attitude of: "A player of KD's caliber has never been openly available on the trade market, so we're justifiably going to ask for a never-before-seen package to get him." How that plays out is still to be determined, but it's certainly a better strategy than to give into KD's whims and get a good-not-great return that means they'll be a middling team for the next half-decade. KD's entitled to want out of Brooklyn, but the Nets don't owe him anything at this point.
    If Tatum got traded to play with Kyrie and Curry...

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Well, is that really that delusional? Despite his mercurial nature, KD is one of the Top 3 (if not better) players in the NBA currently, has been so for the past half decade or so, and is just starting a long-term contract. Tatum is a star, and could get to the level of KD, but I don't think he's there yet... and even if you argue he was at that level last year (which is a viable, albeit challenging, argument to make), he hasn't shown yet that he can do so consistently (which isn't his fault, just a factor of his youth).

    Weird metaphor incoming, but here goes nothing: if you were playing your favorite sports video game, would the AI accept a trade in which you sent a 90 OVR player (even with a 99 potential) and an 85 OVR player for a 99 OVR player on a four year contract? Probably not without some more assets, especially in basketball where a team can win with one transcendent talent. I love Jayson and think there's every potential that he could become a KD level player, but he isn't there yet, and in the NBA there's a big value gap between "generational" players and "All-NBA" players.

    I give the Nets credit for having the attitude of: "A player of KD's caliber has never been openly available on the trade market, so we're justifiably going to ask for a never-before-seen package to get him." How that plays out is still to be determined, but it's certainly a better strategy than to give into KD's whims and get a good-not-great return that means they'll be a middling team for the next half-decade. KD's entitled to want out of Brooklyn, but the Nets don't owe him anything at this point.
    Hmm, I don’t know about this. If you take Tatum and Brown off the Celtics and replace them with Durant do the Celtics even get to the Eastern Conference Finals, much less the Finals (and even more unlikely, an NBA championship)?

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Hmm, I don’t know about this. If you take Tatum and Brown off the Celtics and replace them with Durant do the Celtics even get to the Eastern Conference Finals, much less the Finals (and even more unlikely, an NBA championship)?
    That's a question for a Celtics fan...

    Edit: didn't mean to be snarky. If I'm the C's I laugh at the idea that Tatum's unlimited upside is worth a few seasons of Durant.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Well, is that really that delusional? Despite his mercurial nature, KD is one of the Top 3 (if not better) players in the NBA currently, has been so for the past half decade or so, and is just starting a long-term contract. Tatum is a star, and could get to the level of KD, but I don't think he's there yet... and even if you argue he was at that level last year (which is a viable, albeit challenging, argument to make), he hasn't shown yet that he can do so consistently (which isn't his fault, just a factor of his youth).

    Weird metaphor incoming, but here goes nothing: if you were playing your favorite sports video game, would the AI accept a trade in which you sent a 90 OVR player (even with a 99 potential) and an 85 OVR player for a 99 OVR player on a four year contract? Probably not without some more assets, especially in basketball where a team can win with one transcendent talent. I love Jayson and think there's every potential that he could become a KD level player, but he isn't there yet, and in the NBA there's a big value gap between "generational" players and "All-NBA" players.

    I give the Nets credit for having the attitude of: "A player of KD's caliber has never been openly available on the trade market, so we're justifiably going to ask for a never-before-seen package to get him." How that plays out is still to be determined, but it's certainly a better strategy than to give into KD's whims and get a good-not-great return that means they'll be a middling team for the next half-decade. KD's entitled to want out of Brooklyn, but the Nets don't owe him anything at this point.
    Yes. It's delusional.

    You're giving up 2 All-Stars in their early/mid-20s for a mid-30s superstar with a history of malcontent.

    There is no way the Celtics are giving up Tatum. None. Okay, maybe if the Bucks wanted to swap Giannis for Tatum.

    Now, Brown needs to get traded. It's not because he's not valuable; it's because this is the 3rd or 4th time he's been in the news as a centerpiece for a trade. And he's pissed off. And he'll sign with another team for nothing. So trade him for Durant.
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  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Yes. It's delusional.

    You're giving up 2 All-Stars in their early/mid-20s for a mid-30s superstar with a history of malcontent.

    There is no way the Celtics are giving up Tatum. None. Okay, maybe if the Bucks wanted to swap Giannis for Tatum.

    Now, Brown needs to get traded. It's not because he's not valuable; it's because this is the 3rd or 4th time he's been in the news as a centerpiece for a trade. And he's pissed off. And he'll sign with another team for nothing. So trade him for Durant.
    And that 30s superstar has a recent history of injury. And the body type that is likely to accrue injuries at a higher rate going forward. If KD were 3-4 years younger, it might work. Now? IDK

    As for Brown? He won't go somewhere else for nothing. He'd leave too much money on the table. He'd ultimately engineer a sign and trade.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Yes. It's delusional.

    You're giving up 2 All-Stars in their early/mid-20s for a mid-30s superstar with a history of malcontent.

    There is no way the Celtics are giving up Tatum. None. Okay, maybe if the Bucks wanted to swap Giannis for Tatum.

    Now, Brown needs to get traded. It's not because he's not valuable; it's because this is the 3rd or 4th time he's been in the news as a centerpiece for a trade. And he's pissed off. And he'll sign with another team for nothing. So trade him for Durant.
    IMHO (where the H got lost in Boston Harbor), Red Auerbach would never do that deal to get Kevin Durant. Which is why I would say "hell no!"
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  17. #517
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    That's a question for a Celtics fan...

    Edit: didn't mean to be snarky. If I'm the C's I laugh at the idea that Tatum's unlimited upside is worth a few seasons of Durant.
    To clarify… I 100 agree with this and would never trade a young Tatum plus more for KD. Just arguing that it’s not necessarily crazy talk for the Nets to demand this because this situation is so unprecedented.
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  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    To clarify… I 100 agree with this and would never trade a young Tatum plus more for KD. Just arguing that it’s not necessarily crazy talk for the Nets to demand this because this situation is so unprecedented.
    Nets can ask, but there is a 0% chance the Celtics trade a 3-time All-Star who just made first team All-NBA who is just 24 years old for a guy on his 3rd team in 5 years for a 34 year old who hasn't made first team All-NBA in 4 years.

    At the most, Durant might be better than Tatum for 2 or 3 more years. Tatum is going to be a Celtic for the next decade and have them in the championship hunt every single year.

    Red Auerbach would rise up out of his grave and shove a cigar down Brad Stephens throat if Stephens traded Tatum for Durant.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  19. #519
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    The Celtics just made the Finals and upgraded their roster in the offseason.

    Why do anything?

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    The Celtics just made the Finals and upgraded their roster in the offseason.

    Why do anything?
    Exactly. Not exactly "blow it up and start over" territory. Especially when most of your talent is young.

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