Stranger Things - Spoiler thread

[JasonEvans]

This thread is for folks who have watched all 7 episodes of season 4. If you don't want to be spoiled, stop reading now!

[JasonEvans]

Ok, my thoughts after finishing Ep 7 last night...

• I guessed that Eleven had created the Upside Down or at least done something to it when Nancy discovered her diary had stopped on a date 4 years ago. It was not random that the Upside Down just came into being recently.
• I also guessed that "number One" would trapped in the Upside Down or something like that. The show made too big a deal out of the numbers to never show us One.
• That said, I did not guess that the orderly would be One. I thought he was going to be a child predator or something like that. When El ripped the chip out of his neck, I thought it might be some kind of sexual inhibitor. When he started breaking the guards into pieces I was utterly floored. Loved how that played out and that he was crushing their bones the same way "Vecna" does. I am also glad that they reveled that One killed all those folks at the lab, not El... though I never expected that El was a cold-blooded murderer.
• I will speculate and say that I don't think El and the gang will defeat One/Vecna this season. That battle almost has to happen in the final season. And it sure feels like all of this is building to season five being the last season for the show.
• And as I was watching episode seven I was saying to myself, "hang on, none of this works with Victor Kreel being framed by the evil monsters 20+ years ago." The way they called back that story and connected it with One/Vecna was brilliant. Great storytelling!!
• I adore how good Dustin and Nancy are at figuring out what is going on and how to deal with the baddies from the Upside Down. Removing El from Hawkins and forcing the other heroes to puzzle through stuff without a superhero to back them up is really great and a ton of fun. Of course, there is the messy matter of what they are going to tell the police about all the bad stuff to which they are connected/suspected. Maybe some of the good guy government people will show up and help out.
• I don't know if the show would dare do this, but I think it would up the ante if one of our heroes died. We can't constantly skirt around terrible danger without it striking home at some point. Far too many folks are dying for everyone to keep on coming out unscathed. I hate to say it, because I adore her, but Nancy sure seems to be in the crosshairs right now and Vecna/One really should kill her with ease. Can Steve find a Walkman to save her? Maybe Max can toss her Walkman through the hole in the roof/portal so Steve can play Nancy to safety.

All the great stuff happening in Hawkins and with El have been fabulous highlights and some of the best genre TV happening anywhere... but there are other aspects of this season that have been sorely lacking:

The bad guy government agents who are torturing the good guy agents are a bit much. I don't feel like much has happened with that yet so I suspect something major will come of it soon. If I had to guess, just as El is getting her powers back, the bad guys will storm the compound where she and Dr. Brenner/Dr. Owens are working. Someone will have to sacrifice himself to allow El to flee to safety. Could be Dr. Brenner, but I think it will be Dr. Owens. That way we can save Brenner's redemption arc for season 5 (and he does need to be redeemed, dude pretty much tortured those kids to get their powers to perk up).

Speaking of El being off at Area 51 (or whatever), everything that has happened with Mike and Will and Jonathan has been three shades of awful. It all feels like a waste of time. The only thing any of them have done is help (a little bit) convince El that she needed to go with Dr. Owens to fix herself. And don't even get me started on the way no adult seemed to notice the really messed up bullying happening at school or at the roller skating rink. The way they blamed everything on El, even after the bullies had videotaped their torture of her, was just bad writing.

Lastly, I am sure most of you will agree that the entire Russia subplot feels labored. The crash landing in the snow was beyond absurd. I don't understand why the prison wasn't willing to sacrifice Hopper to the Demogorgon earlier but was suddenly ready to do it in Episode 7. It feels like the show cannot decide if they are playing Murray and Joyce for laughs or for genuine peril. If they somehow manage to get out of the prison (and past the 30+ guards who seem to be there), how exactly are they getting from Kamchatka back to America? All that said, I did enjoy Yuri double-crossing everyone.

I'll probably have more later but am eager to hear what some of the rest of you thought.

[LasVegas]

I do know one thing, the worst actors are Finn Wolfhard and Noah Schnapp.

I also don’t get the whole Russian plot. I fail to see how this ties into the larger plot and just seems like a waste of time.

Those are my only issues though. I loved it!

[aimo]

Yeah, I'm going to have to take some time to think all this through. I'm a bit baffled after Epi 7. So, the orderly turns out to be Victor's son who had supernatural powers that turned him into Vecna and Eleven is responsible for opening all this mess? And I am also wondering how the Russian line ties in besides the fact that they trapped one of the monsters . . . why exactly?!?!?

And at what point is Will going to tell Mike he's in love with him? B/c I really think that's where that's headed.

I do agree that the blatant bullying w/o interference is too unrealistic, but I have seen that in a lot of movies/TV shows, though not as bad.

[JasonEvans]

Yeah, I'm going to have to take some time to think all this through. I'm a bit baffled after Epi 7. So, the orderly turns out to be Victor's son who had supernatural powers that turned him into Vecna and Eleven is responsible for opening all this mess? And I am also wondering how the Russian line ties in besides the fact that they trapped one of the monsters . . . why exactly?!?!?

I thought a lot of that stuff was well explained...

One was Victor Kreel's son. He had strong psychic powers that he developed on his own (the scene where he is torturing a rabbit is chilling). He is a loner and misunderstood and probably more than a little bit crazy.

One day, One snaps and kills his mother and sister. He passes out from the exertion and the crime is blamed on his father, Victor. One is put in the care of his doctor, Dr. Brenner, who notices the psychic abilities and begins to nurture them.

At some point, One becomes too powerful and too deadly so Dr. Brenner puts a device in his neck that will stifle the psychic abilities. Dr. Brenner now begins to focus on other "gifted" children but keeps One at the Hawkins lab as an orderly.

One tricks El into removing the device and One begins breaking people into pieces. He and El face off and, thanks to tapping into her worst memories, El manages to fight One off. El opens a portal and sends One into the Upside Down.

As for the Russians... I think they had a secret spy base or something in Hawkins (they probably got wind of some of the stuff Dr. Brenner was working on through spying and wanted to investigate). They managed to open a portal that used the power of the Upside Down to take them from Russia to Hawkins. At some point along the way they captured a Demogorgon (I doubt we ever see how that happened). When Hopper closed the portal under the mall, he was sucked into it and spat out in Russia.

Ok... that is where stuff I am sure of ends. What comes next is speculation on my part.

I am not 100% clear exactly what El did to One. Did she just push back on him so hard that she created a new dimension (the Upside Down) to send him to? I think she might have.

I am not 100% clear why One turned into the monstrous creature we now call Vecna. His flesh seemed to be torn from his body and then replaced by that Swamp Thing looking mess of vines and veins and ugly.

Early in the season, we heard Dustin speculate that Vecna is The Mind Flayer's top general. In season one or two ( I forget which) we saw the Mind Flayer as a gigantic being, taller than buildings, with many really long legs, almost looking like a gigantic spider. Did he and the Upside Down exist prior to El pushing One to that dimension? I dunno. I suspect we may learn more about all this in the final couple episodes of this season.

[Wander]

He and El face off and, thanks to tapping into her worst memories, El manages to fight One off. El opens a portal and sends One into the Upside Down.

I'll need to rewatch to be sure, but I interpreted the following: When El acted like a Sith and only tried to tap into memories of anger, she was overpowered. She only overcame One when she tapped into memories of love from her real mom, going against the advice she received.

I love the season so far. The scene with Max escaping Vecna is my favorite moment in the entire show, so well done. I agree Eleven created the Upside-Down (makes the date make sense). Not sure what the point of the Russia stuff is, but I assume they'll learn something important there. Not sure what they're doing with Will and Mike either, I hope there is some sort of payoff beyond just "Will has a crush on Mike".

Hm, normally I like when shows are willing to permanently kill some of the main good guys, but I'm not sure it's the right move here. Stranger Things has always been a pretty positive show to me, and I think we're in a place as a society right now where we just need some stories of good guys unambiguously winning and happy endings without kids dying (I mean the ones who are real main characters, not the extras-type high school students). I do agree that the ultimate victory won't come until Season 5, though, with some sort of cliffhanger this time.

[Skydog]

Could someone lay out a very rudimentary timeline for me? I’m very confused.

[JasonEvans]

I'll need to rewatch to be sure, but I interpreted the following: When El acted like a Sith and only tried to tap into memories of anger, she was overpowered. She only overcame One when she tapped into memories of love from her real mom, going against the advice she received.

Ooooh, I need to rewatch to try to see if that is what happens. That would be a great turn that I did not notice. In fairness, my mouth was on the floor at the whole turn of events so I may have missed what was happening in El's flashbacks.

By the way, El's mom is still alive, right? I mean, she has to play a role in season 5, I would think. Alternately, El getting her "new mom and dad" (Joyce and Hopper) back could trigger some big emotions that help her to overcome some obstacle.

[LasVegas]

Ooooh, I need to rewatch to try to see if that is what happens. That would be a great turn that I did not notice. In fairness, my mouth was on the floor at the whole turn of events so I may have missed what was happening in El's flashbacks.

By the way, El's mom is still alive, right? I mean, she has to play a role in season 5, I would think. Alternately, El getting her "new mom and dad" (Joyce and Hopper) back could trigger some big emotions that help her to overcome some obstacle.

Her mom was shown in season 2. Eleven went to find her and she is in some sort of weird mental state. Repeating words and stuff.

[JasonEvans]

Could someone lay out a very rudimentary timeline for me? I’m very confused.

This page has a great summary of the Upside Down laid out by year which serves as a good timeline: https://strangerthings.fandom.com/wiki/The_Upside_Down

Reading it reminded me of some stuff involving the Russians that I had forgotten.

Her mom was shown in season 2. Eleven went to find her and she is in some sort of weird mental state. Repeating words and stuff.

Oh yeah, more stuff that I had forgotten.

[LasVegas]

This page has a great summary of the Upside Down laid out by year which serves as a good timeline: https://strangerthings.fandom.com/wiki/The_Upside_Down

Reading it reminded me of some stuff involving the Russians that I had forgotten.



Oh yeah, more stuff that I had forgotten.

Thanks for the link. I also have forgot so much of what has happened. It’s been something like 3 years since the last season so it’s only natural.

[Skydog]

This page has a great summary of the Upside Down laid out by year which serves as a good timeline: https://strangerthings.fandom.com/wiki/The_Upside_Down

Reading it reminded me of some stuff involving the Russians that I had forgotten.



Oh yeah, more stuff that I had forgotten.

Thank you!

[aimo]

How old is One? Even if that massacre and Upside-Down opening happened when El was smaller, he should still be a lot older than he looks, right? B/c Victor is an old man. And the whole thing with the house and killing his mom and sister happened a long time ago.

And, why couldn't he have just removed that thingie from his neck himself?

[LasVegas]

How old is One? Even if that massacre and Upside-Down opening happened when El was smaller, he should still be a lot older than he looks, right? B/c Victor is an old man. And the whole thing with the house and killing his mom and sister happened a long time ago.

And, why couldn't he have just removed that thingie from his neck himself?

The stranger things wiki says he is 39 currently. Born in 1947

[Skydog]

How old is One? Even if that massacre and Upside-Down opening happened when El was smaller, he should still be a lot older than he looks, right? B/c Victor is an old man. And the whole thing with the house and killing his mom and sister happened a long time ago.

And, why couldn't he have just removed that thingie from his neck himself?

That puzzled me as well. Not that hard to remove it would appear.

[aimo]

The stranger things wiki says he is 39 currently. Born in 1947

He does not look anywhere near 39. And where does the wiki get that info?

[Acymetric]

Well, the events of the flashback probably happened circa 1982 or so when he was even younger. That guy could easily be in his mid 30s, he certainly looks older than a typical college student. The actor turns 34 in November. The only time we see him at 39 is as Vecna so hard to guage age there.

[JasonEvans]

The only time we see him at 39 is as Vecna so hard to guage age there.

Yeah, all the Vecna's I know are in their late 40s at least. Hard to tell what a younger demonic beast would look like.

[LasVegas]

He does not look anywhere near 39. And where does the wiki get that info?

No clue. There is no reference listed for it but it seems close enough to be right. We know stranger things takes place in like 1986 or something and that Victor was a kid in the 50s. What I want to know is how he got all those vines around his body.

[IrishDevil]

How old is One? Even if that massacre and Upside-Down opening happened when El was smaller, he should still be a lot older than he looks, right? B/c Victor is an old man. And the whole thing with the house and killing his mom and sister happened a long time ago.

Well, the events of the flashback probably happened circa 1982 or so when he was even younger. That guy could easily be in his mid 30s, he certainly looks older than a typical college student. The actor turns 34 in November. The only time we see him at 39 is as Vecna so hard to guage age there.

Per the date on the CCTV footage of the lab massacre, One v. Eleven happened in 1979, about twenty years after the Creel killings and four years before the events of season one, including Eleven's creation of the gate in Hawkins lab when fleeing from the demogorgon. One did not look like he was in his mid-teens during his re-telling of the deaths of his family, so early thirties in 1979 seems right.

The series now has a number of threads to tie in and connect up, and I will be curious to see which ones are resolved in season 4 and which are left for season 5. Most immediately, I wonder about time in the upside-down and why it stopped on the day Eleven opened the lab gate in 1983, since we now know that was not the first gate she had created.