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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Yeah. It felt off that just about every male character stayed the same. I really liked Milly Alcock and Iím not sure the new gal captures here in the same way. The gal playing Alicent felt ďmoreĒ right.

    I also was surprised to see Viserys still alive.
    I feel like all the momentum they had built just ground to a screeching halt in this weeks episode.

    Like you, I really missed Milly Alcock, but didn't notice much of a letdown from Emily Carey to Olivia Cooke.

    They tried to quickly build some chemistry with Harwin before his flame out but it just didn't happen. I felt nothing when he went bye bye.


    Let's hope next week is better.
    "That young man has an extra step on his ladder the rest of us just don't have."

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nrrrrvous View Post
    I feel like all the momentum they had built just ground to a screeching halt in this weeks episode.

    Like you, I really missed Milly Alcock, but didn't notice much of a letdown from Emily Carey to Olivia Cooke.

    They tried to quickly build some chemistry with Harwin before his flame out but it just didn't happen. I felt nothing when he went bye bye.

    Let's hope next week is better.
    Yeah, it feels like they are in a rush when they don't need to be. I mean, we only begin to get to know Harwin Strong and then they just kill him and his father (the Hand) in a couple minutes. And the person who does the deed (at least arranges it) is his own brother/son!! Why not build that up over several episodes?!?! Did papa Strong and Harwin treat Larys poorly? Was Larys just so power-hungry that he wanted to kill anyone who stood in his way of claiming his family's leadership? What was the motivation here?

    We get to see almost nothing of Daemon and Laena's life together before she is killed in childbirth (this show loves to torture women during birth, doesn't it?). Why not take a little time for us to get to know them as a couple and her as a character before offing her? Daemon seemed like a changed man, one who was no longer interested in Westerosi politics and the quest for the throne. What caused that change?

    By jumping ahead 10 years, we see none of the fallout from Rhaenyra's disastrous wedding. What happened to Ser Christen Cole after he beat a nobleman to death in the middle of the wedding? What was said between him and Alicent when she found him ready to commit suicide?

    Toward the middle of the episode, I was saying that it looked like Alicent didn't have any allies in court (other than ser Christen Cole) and that everyone was on Rhaenyra's side. Then suddenly Rhaenyra is fleeing court to take up residence at Dragonstone. Huh?!?! When/why did this shift happen?

    I get that we are headed for some big battle between Rhaenyra and Aemon for the Iron Thorne (likely also involving some of the other youngsters - one is named Jace but I don't recall the others). I don't need to read a Wiki of Ice and Fire to know that. But it feels like they are in a real hurry to get that war started. It feels like the latest episode was something from the middle of season two, not back half of season one.

    -Jason "shocking deaths are only shocking if we get to know the characters and develop an attachment to them... the way the show has been going lately, they introduce a new character and them kill him/her off so quickly, we don't feel anything from the death" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Yeah, it feels like they are in a rush when they don't need to be. I mean, we only begin to get to know Harwin Strong and then they just kill him and his father (the Hand) in a couple minutes. And the person who does the deed (at least arranges it) is his own brother/son!! Why not build that up over several episodes?!?! Did papa Strong and Harwin treat Larys poorly? Was Larys just so power-hungry that he wanted to kill anyone who stood in his way of claiming his family's leadership? What was the motivation here?

    We get to see almost nothing of Daemon and Laena's life together before she is killed in childbirth (this show loves to torture women during birth, doesn't it?). Why not take a little time for us to get to know them as a couple and her as a character before offing her? Daemon seemed like a changed man, one who was no longer interested in Westerosi politics and the quest for the throne. What caused that change?

    By jumping ahead 10 years, we see none of the fallout from Rhaenyra's disastrous wedding. What happened to Ser Christen Cole after he beat a nobleman to death in the middle of the wedding? What was said between him and Alicent when she found him ready to commit suicide?

    Toward the middle of the episode, I was saying that it looked like Alicent didn't have any allies in court (other than ser Christen Cole) and that everyone was on Rhaenyra's side. Then suddenly Rhaenyra is fleeing court to take up residence at Dragonstone. Huh?!?! When/why did this shift happen?

    I get that we are headed for some big battle between Rhaenyra and Aemon for the Iron Thorne (likely also involving some of the other youngsters - one is named Jace but I don't recall the others). I don't need to read a Wiki of Ice and Fire to know that. But it feels like they are in a real hurry to get that war started. It feels like the latest episode was something from the middle of season two, not back half of season one.

    -Jason "shocking deaths are only shocking if we get to know the characters and develop an attachment to them... the way the show has been going lately, they introduce a new character and them kill him/her off so quickly, we don't feel anything from the death" Evans
    Agree w/ just about everything here. Iím willing to hear them out on this but itís very difficult getting hooked (and they hooked me) and then moving ten years beyond all the tension that had me invested.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Agree w/ just about everything here. Iím willing to hear them out on this but itís very difficult getting hooked (and they hooked me) and then moving ten years beyond all the tension that had me invested.
    Agreed. I was all in from the previous episodes and it definitely felt like I had to recalibrate everything for this most recent hour of TV.

    I'm curious what the Big Plan is for the series. Is it Star Wars Ep 1, 2, 3 style where they intend to leave us right on the doorstep of Robert's Rebellion? Is that three seasons? Five? Does someone have these things sketched out so that we don't end up with the awkwardness of Season 8 of GoT with people traveling thousands of miles seemingly overnight, storylines cut short, characters evaporating from relevance, etc.

    Here's hoping HBO has learned from their mistakes.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Agreed. I was all in from the previous episodes and it definitely felt like I had to recalibrate everything for this most recent hour of TV.

    I'm curious what the Big Plan is for the series. Is it Star Wars Ep 1, 2, 3 style where they intend to leave us right on the doorstep of Robert's Rebellion? Is that three seasons? Five? Does someone have these things sketched out so that we don't end up with the awkwardness of Season 8 of GoT with people traveling thousands of miles seemingly overnight, storylines cut short, characters evaporating from relevance, etc.

    Here's hoping HBO has learned from their mistakes.
    This story is likely stopping well short of Robert's Rebellion, if they follow the source material. For reference, without trying to spoil anything from the book(s):

    House of the Dragon so far:
    Episode 1 prologue (Great Council where Viserys is named heir): year 101 A.C. (after (Ageon's) conquest)
    Episode 1 main plot (Aemma dies in childbirth): 112 A.C.
    Episode 2 (Viserys announce he is marrying Alicent) : 112 A.C., six months after Ep 1
    Episode 3 (the hunt, baby Aegon turns 2): 115 A.C.
    Episode 4 (Rhanerya's tryst): 115 A.C.
    Episode 5 (Rhanerya's wedding): 115 A.C.
    Episode 6 (Rhaenyra's third son is born): 125 A.C.

    House of the Dragon to come:
    Remainder of Season 1: Likely thru 129 A.C.
    Seasons 2 thru ?: Likely covering 129 A.C. to 131 A.C., as that is when this particular story ends in the source novel, "Fire and Blood".

    Game of Thrones:
    Robert's Rebellion: 282-283 A.C.
    Game of Thrones (all seasons): circa 298 A.C. thru 300 A.C.


    So, there will be a large gap between the end of this story and Robert's Rebellion. Essentially, I think they are structuring this first season of House of the Dragon as one long prologue, covering 25-30 years, to what will be a more focused story (covering ~2 years total) in the remaining seasons.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by pcal6vb View Post
    Essentially, I think they are structuring this first season of House of the Dragon as one long prologue, covering 25-30 years, to what will be a more focused story (covering ~2 years total) in the remaining seasons.
    If so, they committed the worst possible unforced error by replacing the actress playing Rhanerya mid-season. I can think of several different ways to wrestle with this issue (covering a bunch of time/machinations in the source material), but I canít think of any that would be as disastrous as re-casting the protagonist this point of the story.
    Carolina delenda est

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    If so, they committed the worst possible unforced error by replacing the actress playing Rhanerya mid-season. I can think of several different ways to wrestle with this issue (covering a bunch of time/machinations in the source material), but I canít think of any that would be as disastrous as re-casting the protagonist this point of the story.
    Especially because EVERYONE felt that Milly Alcock was just killing it. And it did not help that the very first episode with Emma D'Arcy was one in which Rhaenyra is weakened from giving birth and then slinks away to Drangonstone when her lover is sent away (and killed). She never displays much of the strength, charm, or cunning that made Alcock's Rhae so compelling. Other than having the same name, they are in no way the same characters.

    It would be like aging up Lady Mormont and making the new actress meek and wishy washy.

    By the way, this is why folks are not complaining nearly as much about the transition from Emily Carey to Olivia Cook as Alicent, her character is as we remember her, arguably even stronger than we left her a decade ago.

    I'm just thunderstruck why they would not do the 10-year time jump at the end of the season, perhaps as the final scene or just do the transition during the 9+ months the show will be off the air before season 2. It would have given them more time to explore the events they had set up so far in season one.

    Why am I not the showrunner of this program?!?!?

    -Jason "I'm sure it will change and we will see the Rhaenyra we are used to, but the timing of the new actresses was unfortunate" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Yeah, it feels like they are in a rush when they don't need to be. I mean, we only begin to get to know Harwin Strong and then they just kill him and his father (the Hand) in a couple minutes. And the person who does the deed (at least arranges it) is his own brother/son!! Why not build that up over several episodes?!?! Did papa Strong and Harwin treat Larys poorly? Was Larys just so power-hungry that he wanted to kill anyone who stood in his way of claiming his family's leadership? What was the motivation here?

    We get to see almost nothing of Daemon and Laena's life together before she is killed in childbirth (this show loves to torture women during birth, doesn't it?). Why not take a little time for us to get to know them as a couple and her as a character before offing her? Daemon seemed like a changed man, one who was no longer interested in Westerosi politics and the quest for the throne. What caused that change?

    By jumping ahead 10 years, we see none of the fallout from Rhaenyra's disastrous wedding. What happened to Ser Christen Cole after he beat a nobleman to death in the middle of the wedding? What was said between him and Alicent when she found him ready to commit suicide?

    Toward the middle of the episode, I was saying that it looked like Alicent didn't have any allies in court (other than ser Christen Cole) and that everyone was on Rhaenyra's side. Then suddenly Rhaenyra is fleeing court to take up residence at Dragonstone. Huh?!?! When/why did this shift happen?

    I get that we are headed for some big battle between Rhaenyra and Aemon for the Iron Thorne (likely also involving some of the other youngsters - one is named Jace but I don't recall the others). I don't need to read a Wiki of Ice and Fire to know that. But it feels like they are in a real hurry to get that war started. It feels like the latest episode was something from the middle of season two, not back half of season one.

    -Jason "shocking deaths are only shocking if we get to know the characters and develop an attachment to them... the way the show has been going lately, they introduce a new character and them kill him/her off so quickly, we don't feel anything from the death" Evans
    I needed more of the story of thier lives. 10 years was to big of a jump I eventually will adjust .but after the conclusion of GOT I invested years in.
    They should do better .bah
    I know that sounds entitled.
    Yes I do feel owed something.
    I still watch it though.
    Hopefully it will all come together.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by fidel View Post
    This means I have to ignore Clem too?
    Made me laugh out loud.

  10. #150
    Agree with all if the criticisms of the mishandled time jump. The other unforced error is giving us little to cheer for. Other than Rhae everyone else is killed off, a villain, petty or pitiably weak. At least in GOT from the first episode there were several characters and relationships to pull for - King Eddard and his family (Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickon, Catelyn), Jon Snow, Tyrion, hell even Jamie Lannister had his endearing qualities. In HOTD we have a weak ineffectual king, his sweet wife killed in childbirth and then his new sweet wife turning quickly into a shrew, a handsome kind knight who quickly turns into a bitter murderous zealot, another white knight who is promptly killed, Daemonís sweet wife who us promptly killed, some sniveling young sons, and so on. Iím sorry but this is story telling 101 - give us some characters and relationships to cheer for. They can be flawed but they need to have a core we can attach our emotions to. Even after 6 episodes HOTD has given me no one to care about.

    I guess ďGo Rhae!Ē?

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Agree with all if the criticisms of the mishandled time jump. The other unforced error is giving us little to cheer for. Other than Rhae everyone else is killed off, a villain, petty or pitiably weak. At least in GOT from the first episode there were several characters and relationships to pull for - King Eddard and his family (Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickon, Catelyn), Jon Snow, Tyrion, hell even Jamie Lannister had his endearing qualities. In HOTD we have a weak ineffectual king, his sweet wife killed in childbirth and then his new sweet wife turning quickly into a shrew, a handsome kind knight who quickly turns into a bitter murderous zealot, another white knight who is promptly killed, Daemonís sweet wife who us promptly killed, some sniveling young sons, and so on. Iím sorry but this is story telling 101 - give us some characters and relationships to cheer for. They can be flawed but they need to have a core we can attach our emotions to. Even after 6 episodes HOTD has given me no one to care about.

    I guess ďGo Rhae!Ē?
    I don't know, but I'm now on "Team Daemon". OK, so he killed his first wife. I mean... It was kinda, sorta a mercy killing at that point.

    Oh, and that new kid has got to go. I can't root for anyone named Joffrey. Just can't do it.

    Laenor could turn out to be a strong character, once he goes off to war. Or he could get killed off next week. Who knows.

    I'm still waiting for Ser Harrold of the king's guard to become a major player. Not because I think he will, but because I just absolutely love Graham McTavish.

    Maybe Corlys comes back? He's due for some screen time.
    "That young man has an extra step on his ladder the rest of us just don't have."

  12. #152
    Good episode

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by acdevil View Post
    Good episode
    Yes, that was a wonderful episode, particularly the first 40ish minutes. Great writing, great tension...reminiscent of the Kingsroad episode of Season 1 GOT. The familial tensions, the parental instincts, the insertion of a bastard into the mix.

    STILL...I miss Milly! They could have just aged her a bit, I would have been FINE! Ugh. Milly and new gal just aren't playing the same character.

  14. #154
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    Agree with those who really loved the latest episode. Tons of character tension. It is clear that the kids are going to get aged up and become major players in all this too.

    And how about that ending... Laenor gets to escape with his lover and lead the life he has always wanted. I wonder if that character will ever come back.

    I have to wonder if House Velaryon will continue to back Rhaenyra. I would imagine they will because she and Daemon are now the only living parents to all the heirs of the House.

    Toward that end, I enjoyed Otto Hightower saying "your son was right, an eye for a dragon is a great trade." Otto knows his family will go to war with Rhaenyra's family and he needs as many dragons as he can get in that war. She and Daemon and both her sons are going to have dragons. I think at least one of Daemon's daughters has one too. By my count, Alicent's side has only the two dragons of her sons at this point.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  15. #155
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    I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm not a huge fan of this show so far. Probably has to do with me holding it to the extremely high standard of GOT, but the original had a much broader stage with interesting happenings in the North, in Kings Landing, in Essos; it had much more palace intrigue and clever political manipulation with Littlefinger and Varys; it had some mysticism with Melissandra, the Lord of the Light, three eyed ravens, and prophecies; and it had mysteries of lineage and long held secrets with Jon Snow's parentage. House of the Dragon seems to be just a straight up punch-you-in-the face fight: "here are two adversaries, they are going to fight to the death for the crown". Oh, and so much incest. We get it GRRM, you have a thing for incest, but can we just pump the brakes here a bit? Maybe the show gets better, but so far I don't find it particularly interesting.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Agree with those who really loved the latest episode. Tons of character tension. It is clear that the kids are going to get aged up and become major players in all this too.

    And how about that ending... Laenor gets to escape with his lover and lead the life he has always wanted. I wonder if that character will ever come back.

    I have to wonder if House Velaryon will continue to back Rhaenyra. I would imagine they will because she and Daemon are now the only living parents to all the heirs of the House.

    Toward that end, I enjoyed Otto Hightower saying "your son was right, an eye for a dragon is a great trade." Otto knows his family will go to war with Rhaenyra's family and he needs as many dragons as he can get in that war. She and Daemon and both her sons are going to have dragons. I think at least one of Daemon's daughters has one too. By my count, Alicent's side has only the two dragons of her sons at this point.
    Alicent's side had 3 dragons in tow as they sailed back to Kings Landing following the funeral and eye-plucking incident. I believe the dragon riders known so far are as follows (assuming we can count the Velaryon's as on Rhaenyra's side):

    Team Alicent (the Greens) - 3 riders
    • Aegon
    • Helaena (Alicent's daughter; it was easy to miss, but in the previous episode, all the other boys were teasing Aemond that both his siblings, and both of Rhaenyra's older children, had dragons when he did not)
    • Aemond (claimed Vhagar, the oldest and largest dragon, this episode)


    Team Rhaenyra - 6 riders
    • Rhaenyra
    • Daemon
    • Jacerys (R's' oldest son) - the young, small dragon seen during the teasing scene in the previous episode
    • Lucerys (R's second son) - probably also a young, small dragon
    • Rhaenys ("the Queen who never was")
    • One of Daemon's daughters (the other daughter notably does not have a dragon yet; her ire that Aemond claimed her mother's dragon instead of her partially started the fight between the children)


    Not sure what happens with Laenor's dragon, with him running away and assumed dead by most.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post

    I have to wonder if House Velaryon will continue to back Rhaenyra. I would imagine they will because she and Daemon are now the only living parents to all the heirs of the House.
    I thought there was a pretty telling camera shot after Rhaenyra had been sliced. It had her with her sons, Daemon and then Corlys and his family all in a "picture perfect" portrait. The camera lingered there for a minute. I think that"s probably Team Rhae. Then, of course you had Alicent with only one of her sons and Ser Criston on the other side. Viscerys was already out of the picture. The lines have been drawn.


    I do miss the multiple story lines/plots that GofT had going on at all times. This show is clearly about this family and the battle looming within it. Better? Worse? Just different? To each their own.
    "That young man has an extra step on his ladder the rest of us just don't have."

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm not a huge fan of this show so far. Probably has to do with me holding it to the extremely high standard of GOT, but the original had a much broader stage with interesting happenings in the North, in Kings Landing, in Essos; it had much more palace intrigue and clever political manipulation with Littlefinger and Varys; it had some mysticism with Melissandra, the Lord of the Light, three eyed ravens, and prophecies; and it had mysteries of lineage and long held secrets with Jon Snow's parentage. House of the Dragon seems to be just a straight up punch-you-in-the face fight: "here are two adversaries, they are going to fight to the death for the crown". Oh, and so much incest. We get it GRRM, you have a thing for incest, but can we just pump the brakes here a bit? Maybe the show gets better, but so far I don't find it particularly interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nrrrrvous View Post
    I thought there was a pretty telling camera shot after Rhaenyra had been sliced. It had her with her sons, Daemon and then Corlys and his family all in a "picture perfect" portrait. The camera lingered there for a minute. I think that"s probably Team Rhae. Then, of course you had Alicent with only one of her sons and Ser Criston on the other side. Viscerys was already out of the picture. The lines have been drawn.


    I do miss the multiple story lines/plots that GofT had going on at all times. This show is clearly about this family and the battle looming within it. Better? Worse? Just different? To each their own.

    I'm actually pretty happy they opted for a narrower scope (so far) with this second foray into the GOT universe. The original series I think expanded in scope beyond what it was able to skillfully conclude. So, I think this was the smart move.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Nrrrrvous View Post
    I do miss the multiple story lines/plots that GofT had going on at all times. This show is clearly about this family and the battle looming within it. Better? Worse? Just different? To each their own.
    I'm also not a fan so far, mostly because I have not been pulled in to side with anyone.

    I am seeing this HoD as similar to the War of the Roses, while GoT being the relationships/intrigue across Europe.

    I'm not giving up, but it isn't fun so far.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm not a huge fan of this show so far. Probably has to do with me holding it to the extremely high standard of GOT, but the original had a much broader stage with interesting happenings in the North, in Kings Landing, in Essos; it had much more palace intrigue and clever political manipulation with Littlefinger and Varys; it had some mysticism with Melissandra, the Lord of the Light, three eyed ravens, and prophecies; and it had mysteries of lineage and long held secrets with Jon Snow's parentage. House of the Dragon seems to be just a straight up punch-you-in-the face fight: "here are two adversaries, they are going to fight to the death for the crown". Oh, and so much incest. We get it GRRM, you have a thing for incest, but can we just pump the brakes here a bit? Maybe the show gets better, but so far I don't find it particularly interesting.
    Iím with you - early seasons of GOT had much more detailed and nuanced stories and interesting character developments than HOTD. In the latter everyones character is reduced to their personal greedy aspirations for power.

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