Car Advice

[OZZIE4DUKE]

friend of mine with a Plymouth Valiant left a bar back in the 1970s, got in his car and drove home. Except the next morning he noticed it wasn't his car at all, though the key had worked to start it.

Well, a screw driver worked on most of those ignition switches...

[Highlander]

Hi All - sorry for the delay and keeping everyone in suspense. Was out of town all weekend and have spent the last 3 days dealing with buying and selling cars and swapping titles.

So decided to buy the Impala. Got it for $3300. It has a very small oil leak, tire pressure sensor doesn't work, windows are kinda creaky, 220K miles, and the A/C has an occasional knock. That's about all that's wrong with it. Was going to push everything to later this week, but the owner cancelled his insurance and I had to scramble and get the tags switched and the car reinsured. Went to the tag office at 4pm and spent 30m waiting in the wrong line. Luckily they helped everyone who was in by 4pm and were overall very friendly. Out by 5pm for $80 and a new plate. That was yesterday. We're all straight and she's in the driveway now. A bit bigger than the Accord, but seems like a reasonable car for a teenager to take out.

As for the Honda, the body shop suggested putting it on Facebook marketplace. I listed it at an aggressive $1,850. Keep in mind the car has 200K miles and two broken axles. But it cranks, A/C works, and other than the body damage seems to be in good shape interior-wise. I figured I'd be lucky to get a grand out of it.

Not quite.

I had 20 inquiries in the first 8 hours with a high offer of $1100. By Saturday I was at $1,600, and Sunday someone offered full price.

So Monday I work from home after arranging to meet the buyer at the dealership. Unfortunately he goes dark and stops responding to texts altogether. So Monday night I'm calling the $1,600 offer who hems and haws and won't give me a firm answer. Go to the third guy who was excited at $1,500, but he bought another car after I told him there were higher bidders. But at least he was responsive.

I ended up settling with a guy for $1,300 cash this afternoon. He's got to pay another $300 to tow it (can't put it on a dolly due to the broken rear axle), then probably $1,500 worth of parts and labor at a minimum to get it drivable. But it is ultimately out of my hair.

All told I'm out $2K for the wreck out of pocket, but it was never reported to insurance so no points or ticket. And I'm back to three cars with a clean title. All things considered, that's not a horrible outcome.

Thanks for the advice on the Impala. Will see how she holds up. I did throw my name in a raffle for a used Subaru benefitting a local charity so maybe I'll get lucky and get to flip another car

Oh, and to the one poster upthread, my wife DID own a Highlander for a bit (2003 I think). We looked at the newer models and ended up going with the Hyundai Santa Fe instead. My posting name is actually a nod to my middle name which I share with a couple of immortal and fictional Scottsmen.

[cspan37421]

So decided to buy the Impala. Got it for $3300. It has a very small oil leak, tire pressure sensor doesn't work, windows are kinda creaky, 220K miles, and the A/C has an occasional knock. That's about all that's wrong with it. Was going to push everything to later this week, but the owner cancelled his insurance and I had to scramble and get the tags switched and the car reinsured. Went to the tag office at 4pm and spent 30m waiting in the wrong line. Luckily they helped everyone who was in by 4pm and were overall very friendly. Out by 5pm for $80 and a new plate. That was yesterday. We're all straight and she's in the driveway now. A bit bigger than the Accord, but seems like a reasonable car for a teenager to take out.

As for the Honda, the body shop suggested putting it on Facebook marketplace. I listed it at an aggressive $1,850. Keep in mind the car has 200K miles and two broken axles. But it cranks, A/C works, and other than the body damage seems to be in good shape interior-wise. I figured I'd be lucky to get a grand out of it.

...
Thanks for the advice on the Impala. Will see how she holds up. I did throw my name in a raffle for a used Subaru benefitting a local charity so maybe I'll get lucky and get to flip another car

O

H -

Thanks for getting us up to date! Although I can't recall if the issues you cite above with the Impala were previously mentioned on this thread, I can say that for me, I'd not change my recommendation ... the cost of repair would have been high on the Honda, and more than that, who knows the timeframe required, what with the supply chain issues and whatnot. On a related matter, I suspect the scrap value of the Honda would be pretty decent - a working A/C compressor itself would be valuable. Perhaps the metals in the catalytic converter too, if it wasn't sheared off. But you did well to sell it; ordinary buyers tend to underestimate repair costs. And I wouldn't want my kid driving at highway speed in a vehicle that had been through bent frame repair and axle repair. It was just drilled into me from my young driving days that you just walk away from (buying) used cars that have been through that. And driving them ... well, as with all things that involve maintaining steering control - you are betting your life that the repair was done sufficiently well.

Don't know any quick fixes for the issues you cite, but you may not need the Impala that long. TPMS - we got along for decades without it. Just check tire pressure regularly at first to detect any slow leaks, then rely on visual and auditory checks. If you end up replacing tires or doing maintenance on the wheels, you can get the sensors changed at that time. You can do a web search on the other symptoms and see if there's anything you can do inexpensively there.

[budwom]

Selling a car to an individual can be a massive pain in the butt...lots of posturing, showing off for the girlfriend by men, etc...I sold my last car on Craig's list in 15 minutes to a guy who lives half a mile away. Ridiculously easy, I don't see that happening again...I am greasing the skids on Friday with the local non dealer Volvo specialists...they will recommend a car they like and take a cut, much easier process. Used car prices continue to be crazy high.

[Acymetric]

On a related matter, I suspect the scrap value of the Honda would be pretty decent - a working A/C compressor itself would be valuable. Perhaps the metals in the catalytic converter too, if it wasn't sheared off. But you did well to sell it; ordinary buyers tend to underestimate repair costs.

I kind of wondered if the buyer(s) weren't looking to buy the car so they could flip any working parts at a profit. On the other hand, the used car market is crazy.

TPMS - we got along for decades without it. Just check tire pressure regularly at first to detect any slow leaks, then rely on visual and auditory checks.

I've still never owned a car with TPMS...I didn't even realize it was required (since September 2007 apparently) until I read this thread.

Totally agreed with your points about the safety of a car that has been through major frame/axle repair and agree that the OP made out pretty well with both he purchase and the sale despite the minor issues with the Impala.

[budwom]

I'm still amazed that new car dealers still have precious little inventory. Many around here have fewer than 10 new vehicles on the lot. As someone who was giving thought to getting a new car next Spring, this is interesting. I just read up on predictions for auto inventories, and it appears unlikely that the chip shortage for cars will end this year. Expected to be well into 2023 before things improve much, if then.

What's bad for the consumer (in addition to a lack of selection) is that the current high prices are expected to remain so as manufacturers strive for a new model, in which dealers hold less inventory and therefore discounting is much less prevalent. They've noticed some benefits to the scarcity issue...car dealers around here are advertising at a major clip, but primarily want you to place an order, which I imagine precludes any kind of discount.
Hard to imagine that in recent months the average new car price has been $48,000...

[Bluedog]

I just put down a deposit on a slightly used 3 year old luxury SUV. My car that I got when I graduated from Duke 15 years ago needs a new starter motor and my wife told me that the next time it needs something "major", it's time to go... probably not the best timing from a price perspective, but I've been looking for a particular vehicle with options hard to find for a few months (and you can't even custom order it on a NEW vehicle anymore as they don't have the parts), so when something popped up in my area that was competitively priced, I pounced.

I figure I'm "overpaying" compared to a normal elevated market by like 10% or so but I got what I thought was a fair deal based on what similar optioned cars are going for and I don't see prices dropping precipitously soon. I think manufacturers have figured that it's helpful to them to not overproduce so the days of huge incentives may be over permanently even once supply chain woes catch up which I don't think is until second half of 2023 anyways. Used car market is pretty stupid though currently but still saving over a new one and getting the deal breaker option I literally cannot get with the new version. It's not like I'm paying more than when it was new (ahem Tesla model Ys...).

[gep]

I just put down a deposit on a slightly used 3 year old luxury SUV. My car that I got when I graduated from Duke 15 years ago needs a new starter motor and my wife told me that the next time it needs something "major", it's time to go... probably not the best timing from a price perspective, but I've been looking for a particular vehicle with options hard to find for a few months (and you can't even custom order it on a NEW vehicle anymore as they don't have the parts), so when something popped up in my area that was competitively priced, I pounced.

I figure I'm "overpaying" compared to a normal elevated market by like 10% or so but I got what I thought was a fair deal based on what similar optioned cars are going for and I don't see prices dropping precipitously soon. I think manufacturers have figured that it's helpful to them to not overproduce so the days of huge incentives may be over permanently even once supply chain woes catch up which I don't think is until second half of 2023 anyways. Used car market is pretty stupid though currently but still saving over a new one and getting the deal breaker option I literally cannot get with the new version. It's not like I'm paying more than when it was new (ahem Tesla model Ys...).

I agree with you. When you see what you want, and you believe is a fair price, no need to wait for "a better deal", since it may never come... and you will never get the car you wanted at the price you wanted. Then when you are really ready to buy, it will cost a bunch more. I've been buying certified pre-owned cars... I've heard that these have all of the new manufacturer "defects" adjusted out or fixed, and if relatively new and low mileage, it is a good deal. And I have been perfectly happy

[budwom]

I agree with you. When you see what you want, and you believe is a fair price, no need to wait for "a better deal", since it may never come... and you will never get the car you wanted at the price you wanted. Then when you are really ready to buy, it will cost a bunch more. I've been buying certified pre-owned cars... I've heard that these have all of the new manufacturer "defects" adjusted out or fixed, and if relatively new and low mileage, it is a good deal. And I have been perfectly happy

Good strategy. However for the past year certified pre owned prices are WAY up. In many cases very close to new car prices

[Bluedog]

I agree with you. When you see what you want, and you believe is a fair price, no need to wait for "a better deal", since it may never come... and you will never get the car you wanted at the price you wanted. Then when you are really ready to buy, it will cost a bunch more. I've been buying certified pre-owned cars... I've heard that these have all of the new manufacturer "defects" adjusted out or fixed, and if relatively new and low mileage, it is a good deal. And I have been perfectly happy

Good to hear and glad to get the reinforcement of my decision! Yes, the one I'm getting is "certified pre owned" which extends the warranty an additional year beyond the typical manufacturer (so it'll be good through mid 2024 in my case with unlimited miles) and is brought up to standards including brand new tires, etc.

So, there's some value in all that and it's equivalently priced to a random dealership with no extra warranty/guarantees. Actually probably less expensive than what I could find at CarMax. CarMax seems to be on the high end of pricing (at least for what I was looking at), but similarly offers peace of mind with their car inspection/standards and availability of getting additional warranties, etc. Given the volume of CarMax nationwide though, they often ARE the market and set the "standard" prices.

Good strategy. However for the past year certified pre owned prices are WAY up. In many cases very close to new car prices

They definitely are up. I'm getting a bit less than $20k off of the MSRP from 3 years ago new price. I feel like it should be more like $25k off. But as I stated above, I can't get that $25k off through other used car means at the moment either AND I can't get the car new at all even if I wanted with the desired option (optional third row not able to be ordered. What else isn't currently available on new orders? Leather seating). I saw other CPO cars though that were $8k more than mine that were totally analogs so also feel I got lucky. Having such small depreciation and paying barely less than a new car does seem like a weird market. Used Teslas are sometimes going for more than they cost new...

[budwom]

Good to hear and glad to get the reinforcement of my decision! Yes, the one I'm getting is "certified pre owned" which extends the warranty an additional year beyond the typical manufacturer (so it'll be good through mid 2024 in my case with unlimited miles) and is brought up to standards including brand new tires, etc.

So, there's some value in all that and it's equivalently priced to a random dealership with no extra warranty/guarantees. Actually probably less expensive than what I could find at CarMax. CarMax seems to be on the high end of pricing (at least for what I was looking at), but similarly offers peace of mind with their car inspection/standards and availability of getting additional warranties, etc. Given the volume of CarMax nationwide though, they often ARE the market and set the "standard" prices.



They definitely are up. I'm getting a bit less than $20k off of the MSRP from 3 years ago new price. I feel like it should be more like $25k off. But as I stated above, I can't get that $25k off through other used car means at the moment either AND I can't get the car new at all even if I wanted with the desired option (optional third row not able to be ordered. What else isn't currently available on new orders? Leather seating). I saw other CPO cars though that were $8k more than mine that were totally analogs so also feel I got lucky. Having such small depreciation and paying barely less than a new car does seem like a weird market. Used Teslas are sometimes going for more than they cost new...

That's a good deal. Just checked the local Toyota dealer to see some examples, and a CPO RAV 4, five years old (!) is priced at only $4k less than a new one, ouch. This dealer routinely had 300+ new cars, now they have about a dozen.

[Bluedog]

That's a good deal. Just checked the local Toyota dealer to see some examples, and a CPO RAV 4, five years old (!) is priced at only $4k less than a new one, ouch. This dealer routinely had 300+ new cars, now they have about a dozen.

Yeah, Toyotas don't depreciate quickly and recently, it's been even crazier. Although, to be fair, my vehicle's starting price is higher than a RAV4 so there's more room for it to go down quickly. But if you're going Japan/S Korean manufacturers, slightly used doesn't seem worth it.

Compare RAV4 to Volvo XC60 depreciation:

https://caredge.com/toyota/rav4/depreciation
https://caredge.com/volvo/xc60/depreciation

The depreciation at 3 years for the XC60 is same percentage wise (79% of initial value) as 5 years for RAV4. At 6 years, XC60 is only worth half the original while RAV4 is still 77%!'

I'm paying 73% of original value (not a VOLVO but a German luxury brand) for 3-year old CPO.

[budwom]

Yeah, Toyotas don't depreciate quickly and recently, it's been even crazier. Although, to be fair, my vehicle's starting price is higher than a RAV4 so there's more room for it to go down quickly. But if you're going Japan/S Korean manufacturers, slightly used doesn't seem worth it.

Compare RAV4 to Volvo XC60 depreciation:

https://caredge.com/toyota/rav4/depreciation
https://caredge.com/volvo/xc60/depreciation

The depreciation at 3 years for the XC60 is same percentage wise (79% of initial value) as 5 years for RAV4. At 6 years, XC60 is only worth half the original while RAV4 is still 77%!'

I'm paying 73% of original value (not a VOLVO but a German luxury brand) for 3-year old CPO.

This I can believe. As a long time Volvo owner (but haven't bought one in 16 years) I can understand why. Durable but not particularly reliable*...made the switch to Lexus some time ago...looked at the prices for CPO Highlanders and Lexus just for example, same phenomenon, you might as well buy new rather than go CPO on them.

* I've been pleased that my rarely used 16 year old Volvo is hanging in there with essentially zero rust (16 Vermont winters) but some friends with newer vintage Volvos (2013-4) are finding substantial rust...ouch.

[elvis14]

Good strategy. However for the past year certified pre owned prices are WAY up. In many cases very close to new car prices

The engine in my wife's 2014 Mazda CX-9 blew a few months ago so we got to experience the 2022 version of car shopping. It's not great. When you look at a car online and can get to the Carfax, often the Carfax will have the original window sticker available. I was looking at 2021 and 2022 models. More than once I saw a used vehicle priced above the original sticker price. There were a couple of cars that I really liked but I just couldn't bring myself to pay more than sticker price for a used car. This was for either Hyundai Santa Fe's for Kia Sorrento's. Eventually, we bought a Santa Fe Limited that had only 6k miles on it and even then the price wasn't much below the original sticker. Note that these cars had a refresh in 2021 so going older wasn't going to be an option.

Buying new was going to be even more expensive and I would have either had to order a vehicle and wait a few months or constantly scan the dealer's sites for arriving new cars and put a deposit down sight unseen. The prices I was seeing were either sticker price (they were not coming down) or sticker price + "market adjustment". Any dealer that had a "market adjustment" lost my business immediately. Johnson Hyundai of Cary had a new Santa Fe coming in and when I asked for an out the door price it included a $900 'total protection plan' and $500 for nitrogen in the tires. These were dealer options. So naturally I said "since these are dealer options and the car isn't there yet, can I skip them, I really don't want to pay an extra $1400 for options I don't want anyway". They declined. I didn't buy the car. They had it sold before it hit the lot.

So it took some time and we ended up with an SUV that my wife is very happy with but it wasn't fun and it was expensive. Wish we could have waited a few more years. Hopefully my Lexus holds out for a while, it only has 80k on it (unlike my Tacoma which has 192k).

[budwom]

The engine in my wife's 2014 Mazda CX-9 blew a few months ago so we got to experience the 2022 version of car shopping. It's not great. When you look at a car online and can get to the Carfax, often the Carfax will have the original window sticker available. I was looking at 2021 and 2022 models. More than once I saw a used vehicle priced above the original sticker price. There were a couple of cars that I really liked but I just couldn't bring myself to pay more than sticker price for a used car. This was for either Hyundai Santa Fe's for Kia Sorrento's. Eventually, we bought a Santa Fe Limited that had only 6k miles on it and even then the price wasn't much below the original sticker. Note that these cars had a refresh in 2021 so going older wasn't going to be an option.

Buying new was going to be even more expensive and I would have either had to order a vehicle and wait a few months or constantly scan the dealer's sites for arriving new cars and put a deposit down sight unseen. The prices I was seeing were either sticker price (they were not coming down) or sticker price + "market adjustment". Any dealer that had a "market adjustment" lost my business immediately. Johnson Hyundai of Cary had a new Santa Fe coming in and when I asked for an out the door price it included a $900 'total protection plan' and $500 for nitrogen in the tires. These were dealer options. So naturally I said "since these are dealer options and the car isn't there yet, can I skip them, I really don't want to pay an extra $1400 for options I don't want anyway". They declined. I didn't buy the car. They had it sold before it hit the lot.

So it took some time and we ended up with an SUV that my wife is very happy with but it wasn't fun and it was expensive. Wish we could have waited a few more years. Hopefully my Lexus holds out for a while, it only has 80k on it (unlike my Tacoma which has 192k).

we are in a similar boat. Love our Lexus, I want to take that as our second car...my Volvo is 16 years old but I don't like the tenor of the current car market which you describe very well. (Lexus is 9 yrs old but only 74k miles)

[Bluedog]

The engine in my wife's 2014 Mazda CX-9 blew a few months ago so we got to experience the 2022 version of car shopping. It's not great. When you look at a car online and can get to the Carfax, often the Carfax will have the original window sticker available. I was looking at 2021 and 2022 models. More than once I saw a used vehicle priced above the original sticker price. There were a couple of cars that I really liked but I just couldn't bring myself to pay more than sticker price for a used car. This was for either Hyundai Santa Fe's for Kia Sorrento's. Eventually, we bought a Santa Fe Limited that had only 6k miles on it and even then the price wasn't much below the original sticker. Note that these cars had a refresh in 2021 so going older wasn't going to be an option.

Buying new was going to be even more expensive and I would have either had to order a vehicle and wait a few months or constantly scan the dealer's sites for arriving new cars and put a deposit down sight unseen. The prices I was seeing were either sticker price (they were not coming down) or sticker price + "market adjustment". Any dealer that had a "market adjustment" lost my business immediately. Johnson Hyundai of Cary had a new Santa Fe coming in and when I asked for an out the door price it included a $900 'total protection plan' and $500 for nitrogen in the tires. These were dealer options. So naturally I said "since these are dealer options and the car isn't there yet, can I skip them, I really don't want to pay an extra $1400 for options I don't want anyway". They declined. I didn't buy the car. They had it sold before it hit the lot.

So it took some time and we ended up with an SUV that my wife is very happy with but it wasn't fun and it was expensive. Wish we could have waited a few more years. Hopefully my Lexus holds out for a while, it only has 80k on it (unlike my Tacoma which has 192k).

Thanks for sharing. This story is why I kinda splurged and went more luxury brand (BMW). Still more expensive than Kia/Hyundai, but demand for those are insane right now so the price premium for BMW is actually fairly muted, particularly if we get CPO and get that upfront depreciation. A fully loaded new Kia probably would have been the same price as the 2019 BMW I'm getting soon, which was the last refresh year. Particularly in the SUV market where dealers are basically only getting fully loaded models to increase their margins and the prices have all increased (and have fairly high bases to begin with). Replacing 15 year old Mazda3...had a good run.

[elvis14]

Thanks for sharing. This story is why I kinda splurged and went more luxury brand (BMW). Still more expensive than Kia/Hyundai, but demand for those are insane right now so the price premium for BMW is actually fairly muted, particularly if we get CPO and get that upfront depreciation. A fully loaded new Kia probably would have been the same price as the 2019 BMW I'm getting soon, which was the last refresh year. Particularly in the SUV market where dealers are basically only getting fully loaded models to increase their margins and the prices have all increased (and have fairly high bases to begin with). Replacing 15 year old Mazda3...had a good run.

With the blown engine and sudden need to buy a car, I'm just glad we had an extra vehicle. Never sold my 2007 Tacoma since we need it for our charity so I drove that and let my wife drive my Lexus while we shopped. That allowed me to take a couple of months until something at a better price showed up. Also, I as quite surprised at the price difference between the Kia and the Hyundai considering that they have the same drivetrain. Wanting the newer drivetrain in that Hyundai really handcuffed me because it meant that I could only go back 1 year (2021-2022) on pre-owned vehicles. So far my wife is really happy and the technology in the Santa Fe is a fantastic upgrade over her 2014 CX-9.

[Kdogg]

Johnson Hyundai of Cary had a new Santa Fe coming in and when I asked for an out the door price it included a $900 'total protection plan' and $500 for nitrogen in the tires.

That's a new level of low for a dealership. 1) It's like $485 in profit and most of the $15 would be for labor. 2) You can't check if they even do it. 80% of the air is already nitrogen. You could buy a new set of tires at Costco and they would throw that in for free. All these experience from people in this thread make me pray that my car with last a few more years.

[gep]

I don't know if this is still appropriate today, but years ago, I was recommended to buy a dealer "demo" car. VERY low mileage, clean (since they use it to demo their new cars), and well maintained with all of the new-car mechanical "bugs" worked out. Also, pretty much full of options... again, to demo their new cars. I got a demo with a large reduction from MSRP... and lasted 15+ years without issues.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I still love my 2019 Hyundai Santa Fe AWD turbo with 54000 miles and I just got new Michelins on it ($1100)
so I’m good for another 3+ years. First time I’ve bought tires instead of trading my vehicle since 2009.