Duke-UNC FB thread

[tbyers11]

Knowing what we know about Duke's place-kicking, the decision to play for the field goal at the end of regulation simply defies belief. Duke should have played that last possession like they were down by four. Touchdown or nothing.

I completely agree and said something very similar to my wife. You've got the ball on the 25 (or so) with just under a minute left and 2 timeouts and you call two running plays that gain about a yard and force your kicker (who you should know is not very good) to attempt a 39 yard FG with a TO still in hand. Why don't you keep throwing the ball and go for the touchdown or at least another 10 to 15 yards to give your kicker a legitimate shot.

Also was ESPNU correct that Durgan and not Maggio came out to attempt the FG in OT? The coaching staff needed to pick a kicker and stick with them. It wasn't a distance vs accuracy thing because the 2 FG's were less than 5 yards apart.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Also was ESPNU correct that Durgan and not Maggio came out to attempt the FG in OT? The coaching staff needed to pick a kicker and stick with them. It wasn't a distance vs accuracy thing because the 2 FG's were less than 5 yards apart.

It was Surgan in OT. At least it wasn't blocked...

[Bob Green]

Well the season is over and we end up 1-11. Back in August, I was full of optimism and really thought we had a realistic chance to win four or five games this year. A lucky bounce here, a lucky bounce there...It wasn't to be. Duke football needs to move forward. The AD needs to make an intelligent hire and turn the program around. I just pray we aren't having this same conversation in four or five years. I'm tired of losing.

[throatybeard]

Still, this is about the worst Duke loss I've endured. Beyond words.

I've said that about roughly 6 UNC losses in the last 12 years...

[Sixthman]

Well the season is over and we end up 1-11. Back in August, I was full of optimism and really thought we had a realistic chance to win four or five games this year. A lucky bounce here, a lucky bounce there...It wasn't to be. Duke football needs to move forward. The AD needs to make an intelligent hire and turn the program around. I just pray we aren't having this same conversation in four or five years. I'm tired of losing.

I agree. I told a friend at midseason that I thought this team had found a way to make its own luck, something all good teams do and something missing from the Duke program for 15 years. I was wrong. We need a complete change to the culture of the football program, which has become a culture of losing. It was this way before Ted Roof arrived and will take more than a change of coaches to change the culture. No one person created this culture, I imagine everyone involved with the program would like to change it, and yet, if we believe that a remake of Wallace Wade and a new coach will change the culture, we are doomed to having this conversation for decades. The fact of the matter is, the number of us who care enough about Duke football to have this conversation is small. We need more people working on more fronts to make this kind of change.

[patentgeek]

I completely agree and said something very similar to my wife. You've got the ball on the 25 (or so) with just under a minute left and 2 timeouts and you call two running plays that gain about a yard and force your kicker (who you should know is not very good) to attempt a 39 yard FG with a TO still in hand. Why don't you keep throwing the ball and go for the touchdown or at least another 10 to 15 yards to give your kicker a legitimate shot.

Just to give a counterpoint view, continuing to throw, and particularly taking a shot at the end zone, risks (a) a sack, (b) a holding penalty (either of which take you out of field goal range, and both of which Duke has been very susceptible to this season) and (c) a disatrous interception. You're very unlikely to score a TD running or throwing short. Duke was clearly within the FG range of the kicker (even though he missed, the kick was plenty long). So while I understand people questioning the strategy, particularly in view of Duke's FG struggles this seasons, by no means was simply sneaking the ball to a preferred angle and taking the FG attempt an unquestionably bad strategy.

[patentgeek]

Well the season is over and we end up 1-11. Back in August, I was full of optimism and really thought we had a realistic chance to win four or five games this year. A lucky bounce here, a lucky bounce there...It wasn't to be. Duke football needs to move forward. The AD needs to make an intelligent hire and turn the program around. I just pray we aren't having this same conversation in four or five years. I'm tired of losing.

For what it's worth, as someone that attended the game, it was clear that Duke was much more ready to play and into the game than the hated Heels. There is plenty of fodder for criticizing Coach Roof (particularly in the win-loss column), but the team was clearly not mailing it in (and who could blame them if they did?), whereas the same could not be said of the hated Heels. There were a lot of sheepish "we didn't deserve that win" looks on Heels' fans as they exited Kenan tonight.

[patentgeek]

"can you imagine the frustration of a coach who knows his team can't kick a FG from the 22"

that would be the same coach the recruited the kicker, right?

To be fair, Joe Durgan was a very highly regarded high school kicker, as this link demonstrates:

http://hsflorida.scout.com/2/265861.html

Surgan may have struggled while at Duke, but it's hard to fault Ted Roof for recruiting him.

[dukie8]

Just to give a counterpoint view, continuing to throw, and particularly taking a shot at the end zone, risks (a) a sack, (b) a holding penalty (either of which take you out of field goal range, and both of which Duke has been very susceptible to this season) and (c) a disatrous interception. You're very unlikely to score a TD running or throwing short. Duke was clearly within the FG range of the kicker (even though he missed, the kick was plenty long). So while I understand people questioning the strategy, particularly in view of Duke's FG struggles this seasons, by no means was simply sneaking the ball to a preferred angle and taking the FG attempt an unquestionably bad strategy.

how was duke "clearly within the FG of the kicker" when it would have equaled his longest fg of the SEASON? as far as i was concerned, we were NOT even in fg range. running 2 plays up the middle for virtually no yards would have been about the last thing i would have done in light of the fact that duke had all 3 timeouts, has a decent qb and receivers and had just walked the ball up the field by throwing it. the team was 1-10 at that point so it wasn't like a pick run back for a td was going to keep them out of a bcs bowl.

you have to put the team in position to win and sitting back with a doomed strategy doesn't cut it. it reminded me of the jets in the playoffs a couple of years ago when herm edwards was still the coach. they were at pittsburgh, which is one of the hardest places to kick in, got the ball on the absolute edge of the kicker's range and proceeded to run a couple of idiotic plays up the middle for virtually no yardage. the kicker comes in for what was going to be one of the longest fgs ever in that stadium and proceeds to miss. of course pitt wound up getting the ball back and winning (and went on to win the super bowl).

[godukerocks]

how was duke "clearly within the FG of the kicker" when it would have equaled his longest fg of the SEASON?

If you are a Division I kicker, in the Atlantic Coast Conference, by God you should be able to make it from 40 yards. I don't blame Roof at all for his end of game strategy. Duke needs to go to the soccer team and borrow Mike Grella or somebody.

[jlear]

For what it's worth, as someone that attended the game, it was clear that Duke was much more ready to play and into the game than the hated Heels. There is plenty of fodder for criticizing Coach Roof (particularly in the win-loss column), but the team was clearly not mailing it in (and who could blame them if they did?), whereas the same could not be said of the hated Heels. There were a lot of sheepish "we didn't deserve that win" looks on Heels' fans as they exited Kenan tonight.

Emotionally I agree 100%, but since the game was against the hated heels the players would be up for the game, an ACC game they could win against the team they hate the most regardless of the coaches.

We could not stop the run with any consistency at all, too many running plays included at least two missed tackles before the runner was stopped. Missed tackles, in my opinion equal not being ready to play. Three delay of game penalties in the first qtr equal not being ready to play.

The team was not mailing it in, but in my opinion this team was not prepared for the season at all. In my opinion, this team with its talent could have played better every week. The difference to me is coaching at all levels and from the last game until the start of the season. Our players need better development, better preparation, and better in game coaching.

[jlear]

If you are a Division I kicker, in the Atlantic Coast Conference, by God you should be able to make it from 40 yards. I don't blame Roof at all for his end of game strategy. Duke needs to go to the soccer team and borrow Mike Grella or somebody.

The recruited kicked should be able to do an adequate job period. The special teams coordinator, might be a great guy, but he has zero experience coaching special teams – link.

Perhaps we need to have a kicking coach or a special teams coach with some recent experience. Maybe one of the other coaches has it and I am just wrong.

[tbyers11]

If you are a Division I kicker, in the Atlantic Coast Conference, by God you should be able to make it from 40 yards. I don't blame Roof at all for his end of game strategy. Duke needs to go to the soccer team and borrow Mike Grella or somebody.

I agree that a Division I ACC kicker should make a 40 yd field goal about 75% of the time. However, the Duke kickers have proven this season that they are not capable of this. Maggio looked awful on a 36 yd attempt earlier in this game. The head coach should be held responsible for knowing the strengths and, in this case, limitations of his players. You call plays that give your team the best chance to win based on these characteristics. How Ted Roof could coach this team and its kickers all year and think that they didn't need to gain 10 more yards to have a significantly better chance of winning is beyond me.

In addition, I feel calling the running plays to basically setup the kick for the field goal was the "safe" play call. It was emblematic of the lack of aggressive, confident play-calling missing from the Duke offense all season. The team takes its cues from the coaches and the fact that the coaching staff seems to have played not to lose rather than to win may have been one of its biggest faults.

[dukie8]

If you are a Division I kicker, in the Atlantic Coast Conference, by God you should be able to make it from 40 yards. I don't blame Roof at all for his end of game strategy. Duke needs to go to the soccer team and borrow Mike Grella or somebody.

should is the operative word. the fact of the matter is that duke DIDN'T have a kicker tonight who could kick a 40 yarder with any degree of certainty. everyone on the chat board knew it so it is beyond me that he was calling plays like he had adam vinatieri warming up on the sidelines. i DO blame roof for those boneheaded plays leading up to the woeful fg attempt.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

We should have thrown the ball on that last series, using ~15 (+/- 5) yard routes, maybe breaking one for a touchdown. Jomar Wright, Brandon King, Ronnie Drummer and the other tight end Stephano are all good receivers in that range, to say nothing of Eron Riley who usually goes deeper. The plays Roof/Vass called were designed to not lose in regulation, not to win. conventional wisdom says you play to win on the road, tie at home (but not against carolina, EVER).

[freedevil]

I hate Carolina. That is all.

[captmojo]

...post concerning this season in football. All good wishes to the senior class and the coaching staff.

OK. Our guys lost on the scoreboard. That is the only place they lost for me. I've had several hours away from thinking about yesterday. I'd like to think that I could make some level-headed conclusions concerning that final contest. I'm not sure but I'll try anyway.

First of all, the coaching staff put forth a great game plan. I imagine carolina, as well as many reading my drivel, may have been expecting to see an offense from Duke that was going to hit the field pulling out all manner of trick plays to take the holes off their feet with something unexpected. Didn't happen, did it? Maybe that was the trickery. The former has been a pattern in the past. Plays that were held back from vision all year only to be witnessed at season's end. No, this was straight-up. Man for man gut business.

This undersized Duke team put forth an effort against a larger, mouthing off opponent that was wonderful to see. And furthermore, over there on their home field. The holes were stunned to see themselves behind in the forth quarter. How could this be possible?

Our group of gentlemen kept their heads and outplayed the enemy. This game was not deserved to be a loss. Effort was there. Desire was there. But for accuracy in the kicking game, we would not have been subjected to overtime. I'm not going to further the pain of the coaches or kickers. This was a team loss. It always is, isn't it. There were 59 other minutes of play where the team had opportunities to win the game. This, I believe, holds true for every competition. Life, as well as any sport. In the game of life, this squad will be able to hold their heads high and say to the world that they gave it their best effort.

I've gone on for too long now so I'll close by asking everyone here to celebrate the effort put forth by the team, and wish all on it good fortune for what is surely better times ahead.(I'm stealing optimism from Oz right here) Don't dwell on the loss. Rather plan ahead for how sweet it will be when the day comes, and it will, for the next victory over that bunch of hooligans over there in that bad shade of blue. Win or lose, their team always sucks.