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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Another alternative is the Zags create their own conference that only includes fairly strong basketball teams. Kinda like what the Big East did a few years back when all their strong football teams left for the ACC.
    Sign me up for the Mid-major super conference (geography be damned):
    Gonzaga
    BYU
    Boise St.
    Houston
    Memphis
    Davidson
    Cent. Fla
    Dayton
    VCU
    and Loyola (Chi)

    That conference is getting 4+ bids a year, for sure!


    Quote Originally Posted by House P View Post
    If Gonzaga wants to play tougher competition in Jan/Feb, they could probably schedule a few tough non-conference games during this time. Sure, there are not a lot of openings for non-conference games during this period and they might have to occasionally play 3 games in a week* to do it, but I suspect Gonzaga could find 3-4 mid-level or above P6 teams willing to squeeze in an extra, high-profile game.
    Well... I'm not so sure about that. The major conference have expanded their schedules in recent years. As a result, P5 teams that get a break in their schedule during Jan-Mar don't tend to schedule challenging non-conference teams into that slot the way they used to a decade or so ago. I'm not saying it is impossible, but it would be difficult.

    And it would be made even more difficult by Gonzaga's geographic location. Ain't no way a legit SEC, ACC, or Bten school is going to fly 3+ hours cross country to play a home-and-home with the Zags in the middle of their conference schedule. So, Gonzaga would need to pull this off with either a Pac 12 or a B12 team.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Sign me up for the Mid-major super conference (geography be damned):
    Gonzaga
    BYU
    Boise St.
    Houston
    Memphis
    Davidson
    Cent. Fla
    Dayton
    VCU
    and Loyola (Chi)

    That conference is getting 4+ bids a year, for sure!
    I'm surprised so many of you don't keep up with the news. 30% of this list has already been admitted to a P5 conference.

  3. #83
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    Feb 2013
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    Cambridge, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Yeah, I suspect that to do that, they would need to create more space in the conference schedule.

    Most teams have one MAYBE two "open dates" in January/February. Finding top teams that sync up with you for those one or two spots is gonna be complicated. Finding three or four...
    Yeah, I suspect the real issue is that potential opponents have no control over their conference schedules.

    Looking at Gonzaga's schedule, it seems that nearly every WCC game is Thur/Sat. So, even if Gonzaga let it be known that they were looking for a top non-conference opponents on any Monday or Tuesday in Jan/Feb, there would be few P6 teams who would potentially be able to accommodate. To Jason's point, this is especially true if you consider the travel to/from Spokane.

    Duke was able to schedule Elon with almost zero notice, but they were just down the road and I suspect Gonzaga would want to schedule someone better than Elon.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    I'm surprised so many of you don't keep up with the news. 30% of this list has already been admitted to a P5 conference.
    Oh shoot... that's right! I forgot about the B12 adding BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF.

    Is it too late to delete my silly post?
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  5. #85
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Oh shoot... that's right! I forgot about the B12 adding BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF.

    Is it too late to delete my silly post?
    Conference realignment is and always will be a silly topic so no need. Pretty solid list otherwise, though Memphis is about to fall off a cliff between sanctions and how weak the remaining American Conference basketball programs will be (replacing three of those four above with a lot of Rice, UNT, UAB, and Charlotte weaklings).

  6. #86
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is online now Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I'm not sure any school has a tougher non-conf schedule than the Zags, year in and year out.

    Also, the WCC was really good this year. Arguably the best it has ever been. Zags just laid an egg against the Razorbacks.
    For sure, but as good as the "top" of the WCC is in a given year, it will continue to be countered by the cupcake nature of the bottom of the conference. Even the worst ACC team would beat Pepperdine at least 95/100 times, and by a huge margin. That will continue to be an albatross on the Zags resume for years to come, and arguably is why they need that crazy non-conf schedule.
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  7. #87
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    For sure, but as good as the "top" of the WCC is in a given year, it will continue to be countered by the cupcake nature of the bottom of the conference. Even the worst ACC team would beat Pepperdine at least 95/100 times, and by a huge margin. That will continue to be an albatross on the Zags resume for years to come, and arguably is why they need that crazy non-conf schedule.
    Great point. Solution: kick out the Pepperdines and add SDSU, UNLV, and other solid MWC conference teams.

    WCC and MWC are meh by themselves? Together, they could be great. Like the Power Rangers. Or Captain Planet!
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  8. #88
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    Honolulu
    The one thing I really respect about the PAC-12 is its ability to actually count. So that's a hard no on Gonzaga to the PAC for me.

  9. #89
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    Jul 2008
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    Honolulu
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Great point. Solution: kick out the Pepperdines and add SDSU, UNLV, and other solid MWC conference teams.

    WCC and MWC are meh by themselves? Together, they could be great. Like the Power Rangers. Or Captain Planet!
    I don't think any MWC teams are going to walk away from football money to join Gonzaga in the WCC.

  10. #90
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    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by JetpackJesus View Post
    The one thing I really respect about the PAC-12 is its ability to actually count. So that's a hard no on Gonzaga to the PAC for me.
    Good point. Though they are not all Pacific anymore so they are off on that. Though they are closer to being Pacific than the ACC is to Atlantic.

  11. #91
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Again, to me the problem isn't who they play but when they play them.

    We played Kentucky. And we played Campbell. We played both of them early. Then we spent January and February playing a weak ACC that still had UNC, Notre Dame, UVA, Wake, etc, one or twice.

    Gonzaga played a great non conference schedule. A long, long time ago.

    And then ran the gauntlet of a two game conference tournament, specifically geared to be an easy win.

    I absolutely believe that move to Big East or Pac 10 would mean for a tougher team in March.
    Surely the ACC's record of 14-5 in the NCAAs dispelled the story (I would say "myth") that the "ACC was weak this year." Early season losses to historically weak teams made the dork poll numbers sag. In fact, several teams were slow to develop. but we had some very good teams by midseason -- and we placed three teams in the Elite Eight as well as two in the FF.
    Sage Grouse

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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    I'm surprised so many of you don't keep up with the news.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Is it too late to delete my silly post?
    How about the whole thread? (link)

    bigeastgonzaga.jpg

    This ESPN article keeps track of actual conference changes for 2022-2023. Of interest: Nate James and Austin Peay make the somewhat lateral move from the Ohio Valley to the Atlantic Sun.

    Conference RPI (basketball): #25 OVC, #26 A-Sun
    Conference RPI (football): #19 OVC; A-Sun starts football this fall

    If you're wondering why, the Atlantic Sun is more geographically relevant for recruiting purposes, and the Ohio Valley is trending down -- Murray State and Belmont are also moving, to the Missouri Valley.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Surely the ACC's record of 14-5 in the NCAAs dispelled the story (I would say "myth") that the "ACC was weak this year." Early season losses to historically weak teams made the dork poll numbers sag. In fact, several teams were slow to develop. but we had some very good teams by midseason -- and we placed three teams in the Elite Eight as well as two in the FF.
    That was my point. A weak ACC is way better forging than Gonzaga had.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by House P View Post
    Yeah, I suspect the real issue is that potential opponents have no control over their conference schedules.

    Looking at Gonzaga's schedule, it seems that nearly every WCC game is Thur/Sat. So, even if Gonzaga let it be known that they were looking for a top non-conference opponents on any Monday or Tuesday in Jan/Feb, there would be few P6 teams who would potentially be able to accommodate. To Jason's point, this is especially true if you consider the travel to/from Spokane.

    Duke was able to schedule Elon with almost zero notice, but they were just down the road and I suspect Gonzaga would want to schedule someone better than Elon.
    They'd have to be really, really intentional about it - like, "Hey, Tommy, you guys are playing Arizona State this weekend and thus have a lighter schedule than you would have most weekends. How about getting together with your old pal Mark?" Or tell Jim Phillips that you know math and that 15 ACC teams means there's one team without a game each weekend, and you want to play some of those teams.

  15. #95
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    That was my point. A weak ACC is way better forging than Gonzaga had.
    I'm not sure I understand this. A weak ACC would still have been better forging then Gonzaga had, but doesn't 14-5 in the NCAA tourney prove that the ACC was anything but weak? If Carolina beats Kansas, then the ACC goes 15-4 in the tournament with 3 teams in the 8s, 2 in the final four plus the championship, and the only reasonable word for the ACC would be dominant.
    Last edited by howardlander; 04-08-2022 at 03:25 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by howardlander View Post
    I'm not sure I understand this. A weak ACC would still have been better forging then Gonzaga had, but doesn't 14-5 in the NCAA tourney prove that the ACC was anything but weak? If Carolina beats Kansas, then the ACC goes 15-4 in the tournament with 3 teams in the 8s, 2 in the final four plus the championship, and the only reasonable word for the ACC would be dominant.
    Does it? 9 of those wins were Duke and UNC, and 3 more were Miami. That may make a statement about the top of the ACC but it doesn’t speak at all to the bottom half, most of which was truly rotten this year.

  17. #97
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    Oct 2009
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Does it? 9 of those wins were Duke and UNC, and 3 more were Miami. That may make a statement about the top of the ACC but it doesn’t speak at all to the bottom half, most of which was truly rotten this year.
    and 2 of those 3 wins were Miami against very mediocre teams. It's great they won, but they also got roflstomped when they eventually faced kansas.

    Raw record is silly. Unc was far better than expected, miami was slightly better than expected. All in all, the ACC was probably slightly better than estimated pre tournament, but the bulk of that was UNC putting it together.
    1200. DDMF.

  18. #98
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    May 2010
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Does it? 9 of those wins were Duke and UNC, and 3 more were Miami. That may make a statement about the top of the ACC but it doesn’t speak at all to the bottom half, most of which was truly rotten this year.
    Maybe, but aren't the bottom teams of a 15 team conference always there for a reason? Possibly some of the lower level ACC teams looked bad because they were hammered by the top and middle of an under appreciated conference. Doesn't mean they didn't improve from their pre-conference schedules. Pitt was so bad that they managed to crush a national finalist team on the road. Boston College did manage to beat Wake, but I agree we can't say much for Louisville, NC State or Georgia Tech. But 3 pretty bad teams in a 15 team conference is probably about par for the course.

    Miami was an 11 seed and Carolina an 8 seed, mostly because the ACC was perceived so poorly. They still managed to win 8 tournament games. Wake and Virginia should have been in the tourney.

  19. #99
    Both Wake and UVA were out by the 2nd round of the NIT. If they had gotten in, I suspect the ACC’s record wouldn’t be quite so stout. (And I forgot that one of ND’s wins was in the play-in game.

    There have been lots of years where the middle and bottom tier ACC teams were decent, even NIT worthy. Yea there’s always a few stragglers but a deep conference doesn’t have roughly half its teams below .500 overall for the season. A meat grinder it was not.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Both Wake and UVA were out by the 2nd round of the NIT. If they had gotten in, I suspect the ACC’s record wouldn’t be quite so stout. (And I forgot that one of ND’s wins was in the play-in game.
    Not sure you can judge them by the NIT. Isn't there kind of a history of teams thinking they were snubbed lacking focus/motivation/results in the NIT. But I agree they were both disappointing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    There have been lots of years where the middle and bottom tier ACC teams were decent, even NIT worthy. Yea there’s always a few stragglers but a deep conference doesn’t have roughly half its teams below .500 overall for the season. A meat grinder it was not.
    I might agree with this point also. But I still think there were more good teams in the ACC than was generally recognized. The national finalist had 6 conference losses, Duke had 5 conference losses, and Miami made it to the round of 8 with 7 conference losses (including the ACC tourney losses). Heck, the team that was good enough to win the conference tournament had 9 conference losses. Those losses weren't all to each other.

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