Conference Realignment 2022-23

[CameronBornAndBred]

Here you go. I did this a while ago, so I don't remember exactly where I got the numbers (probably Wikipedia).

Color me surprised that Rutgers is the largest!

[House P]

Color me surprised that Rutgers is the largest!

As I mentioned, I dug these numbers up a while ago. I seem to recall that the numbers were different depending on the source. For example, I apparently found a different source which listed the 100 largest colleges based on the number full time undergrads. Here's how the Big Ten and ACC schools stacked up on that list.

If these are correct, it appears that Rutgers has a disproportionate number of part time students compared to the other schools.

Rank	College	FT Undergrad
3	Ohio State University	41,117
4	Penn State	39,520
9	Michigan State University	35,645
10	Rutgers University	33,392
11	University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	31,989
12	Indiana University - Bloomington	31,728
17	University of Minnesota - Twin Cities	29,168
18	University of California - Los Angeles	29,004
21	Purdue University	28,682
22	University of Wisconsin	28,555
29	University of Michigan - Ann Arbor	27,258
39	University of Maryland - College Park	25,410
69	University of Iowa	19,911
78	University of Nebraska - Lincoln	18,817
91	University of Southern California	18,208
16	Florida State University	29,185
45	Virginia Tech	24,841
58	North Carolina State University	21,023
97	University of Pittsburgh	17,887
100	University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill	17,645

[budwom]

Here you go. I did this a while ago, so I don't remember exactly where I got the numbers (probably Wikipedia).

Big Ten School	Undergrads	ACC School	Undergrads
Rutgers University	49,359	Florida State University	33,486
Ohio State University	47,106	Virginia Tech	29,300
Penn State	39,809	NC State University	25,973
Michigan State University	39,176	Clemson University	20,195
Purdue University	37,101	University of North Carolina	19,743
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	34,559	University of Pittsburgh	19,200
Indiana University - Bloomington	34,253	University of Virginia	17,011
University of Wisconsin	33,506	Georgia Tech University	16,651
University of California - Los Angeles	32,121	University of Louisville	15,641
University of Michigan - Ann Arbor	31,329	Syracuse University	14,479
University of Maryland - College Park	30,762	Boston College	9,445
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities	30,734	Notre Dame	8,731
University of Iowa	21,608	University of Miami	7,007
University of Southern California	20,790	Duke University	6,789
University of Nebraska - Lincoln	19,552	Wake Forest University	5,441
Northwestern	8,327
Total	510,092	Total	249,092
Median	32,814	Median	16,651

Hey, thanks for doing that! My guess was correct, Big 10 schools roughly twice as large, only one ACC school hits the Big 10 median. Tremendous market dominance in their area, lots of ensuing TV money.
Also worth mentioning (again) that AAU membership is a huge plus for that league, only Nebraska isn't a member (but once was).

[CameronBornAndBred]

This as good of a place as any, given how often ND is brought up in this thread.

Notre Dame's AD is stepping down, and being replaced by NBC Sports chairman Pet Bevacqua. Given ND's football contract with the Irish, isn't this just cozy?

Longtime Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick is stepping down next year and will be replaced by NBC Sports Chairman Pete Bevacqua, the school announced Thursday.

Bevacqua will leave NBC Sports at the end of the month to begin the transition at Notre Dame as special assistant to the president for athletics, ultimately replacing Swarbrick in the first quarter of 2024.

[House P]

I suppose that "positioning themselves as the more academically minded" of the power conferences is a PR move to justify some perceived disappointment.

But I could be wrong. Perhaps they truly value scholastic endeavors over football strength and $$$.

Can you clarify what you mean by PR move to justify some perceived disappointment? Do you mean that the list is a PR move to rationalize why they were unable to add Clemson and FSU? Or do you mean a PR move to rationalize why the SEC ultimately becomes the better football conference?

The latter makes some sense to me. I can imagine a world where the SEC outperforms the Big Ten on the football field, but the Big Ten tries to compete by branding themselves the more serious academic conference. No, I don't think the Big Ten has had an epiphany and now values scholastic endeavors over football strength, but this list may be a nugget of evidence that academics and/or basketball may not be entirely irrelevant to the Big Ten.

Either way, I'd be curious to better understand why the Big Ten "vetted" Duke, Ga Tech, UVA, Cal, and Stanford and not several Big 12, PAC 12 and ACC schools which consistently get better TV ratings.

[budwom]

Can you clarify what you mean by PR move to justify some perceived disappointment? Do you mean that the list is a PR move to rationalize why they were unable to add Clemson and FSU? Or do you mean a PR move to rationalize why the SEC ultimately becomes the better football conference?

The latter makes some sense to me. I can imagine a world where the SEC outperforms the Big Ten on the football field, but the Big Ten tries to compete by branding themselves the more serious academic conference. No, I don't think the Big Ten has had an epiphany and now values scholastic endeavors over football strength, but this list may be a nugget of evidence that academics and/or basketball may not be entirely irrelevant to the Big Ten.

Either way, I'd be curious to better understand why the Big Ten "vetted" Duke, Ga Tech, UVA, Cal, and Stanford and not several Big 12, PAC 12 and ACC schools which consistently get better TV ratings.

Cal and Stanford don't surprise me, great schools in a large market...but I am surprised in a good way that Duke and VA are being at least looked at...of course with the Twerps and Rutgers, their current footprint isn't that far away ...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Can you clarify what you mean by PR move to justify some perceived disappointment? Do you mean that the list is a PR move to rationalize why they were unable to add Clemson and FSU? Or do you mean a PR move to rationalize why the SEC ultimately becomes the better football conference?

The latter makes some sense to me. I can imagine a world where the SEC outperforms the Big Ten on the football field, but the Big Ten tries to compete by branding themselves the more serious academic conference. No, I don't think the Big Ten has had an epiphany and now values scholastic endeavors over football strength, but this list may be a nugget of evidence that academics and/or basketball may not be entirely irrelevant to the Big Ten.

Either way, I'd be curious to better understand why the Big Ten "vetted" Duke, Ga Tech, UVA, Cal, and Stanford and not several Big 12, PAC 12 and ACC schools which consistently get better TV ratings.

I guess I'm being cynical and seeing as a convenient justification for not going for the schools that add football value. "Oh, FSU? No, Duke and UVa are much more on brand."

Something about sour grapes.

[LeadingEdge]

Here you go. I did this a while ago, so I don't remember exactly where I got the numbers (probably Wikipedia).

Big Ten School	Undergrads	ACC School	Undergrads
Rutgers University	49,359	Florida State University	33,486
Ohio State University	47,106	Virginia Tech	29,300
Penn State	39,809	NC State University	25,973
Michigan State University	39,176	Clemson University	20,195
Purdue University	37,101	University of North Carolina	19,743
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	34,559	University of Pittsburgh	19,200
Indiana University - Bloomington	34,253	University of Virginia	17,011
University of Wisconsin	33,506	Georgia Tech University	16,651
University of California - Los Angeles	32,121	University of Louisville	15,641
University of Michigan - Ann Arbor	31,329	Syracuse University	14,479
University of Maryland - College Park	30,762	Boston College	9,445
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities	30,734	Notre Dame	8,731
University of Iowa	21,608	University of Miami	7,007
University of Southern California	20,790	Duke University	6,789
University of Nebraska - Lincoln	19,552	Wake Forest University	5,441
Northwestern	8,327
Total	510,092	Total	249,092
Median	32,814	Median	16,651

That's good research. I didn't audit the list, but the U. Miami number is significantly higher: it has 12,000 undergrads.

It also has about 7000 grad students. I realize sports loyalty is mainly to one's undergrad school, but grad school builds some bond and puts some fannies in stadia. In estimating TV eyeballs, I would include grad students with a 50% discount.

[sagegrouse]

I suppose that "positioning themselves as the more academically minded" of the power conferences is a PR move to justify some perceived disappointment.

But I could be wrong. Perhaps they truly value scholastic endeavors over football strength and $$$.

The universities have multiple masters -- not just the athletics-mad alumni or the AD looking for a bigger paycheck. Academics in many places are important enough to affect conference selection, esp. when the decision-makers are university presidents and board chairs not just the AD and coaches.

When Miami joined the ACC, president Donna Shalala expressed satisfaction that Miami was associating with its "peer group" of schools.

[House P]

I guess I'm being cynical and seeing as a convenient justification for not going for the schools that add football value. "Oh, FSU? No, Duke and UVa are much more on brand."

Something about sour grapes.

Thanks for the clarification.

I don’t have a good sense whether the Big Ten or SEC is considered the more attractive conference destination. The SEC seems to be ahead in terms of football quality, but the Big Ten is probably ahead by most other relevant other measures.

Texas and UCLA seem like the two biggest prizes in the most recent round of expansion. One chose the SEC and the other choose the Big Ten. Not sure what to make of that.

[dlmzzz]

Thanks for the clarification.

I don’t have a good sense whether the Big Ten or SEC is considered the more attractive conference destination. The SEC seems to be ahead in terms of football quality, but the Big Ten is probably ahead by most other relevant other measures.

Texas and UCLA seem like the two biggest prizes in the most recent round of expansion. One chose the SEC and the other choose the Big Ten. Not sure what to make of that.

Pretty sure the Big Ten recruited USC (big football brand and a Rose Bowl rival), and USC said "yes, but only if UCLA can come with".

[sagegrouse]

Pretty sure the Big Ten recruited USC (big football brand and a Rose Bowl rival), and USC said "yes, but only if UCLA can come with".

Moreover, Texas and Oklahoma were coupled together in going to the SEC.

[BlueDevil2K]

BYU's move to the Big XII is off to a rocky start...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thespun...football-field

[Dr. Maturin]

As I mentioned, I dug these numbers up a while ago. I seem to recall that the numbers were different depending on the source. For example, I apparently found a different source which listed the 100 largest colleges based on the number full time undergrads. Here's how the Big Ten and ACC schools stacked up on that list.

If these are correct, it appears that Rutgers has a disproportionate number of part time students compared to the other schools.

Rank	College	FT Undergrad
3	Ohio State University	41,117
4	Penn State	39,520
9	Michigan State University	35,645
10	Rutgers University	33,392
11	University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	31,989
12	Indiana University - Bloomington	31,728
17	University of Minnesota - Twin Cities	29,168
18	University of California - Los Angeles	29,004
21	Purdue University	28,682
22	University of Wisconsin	28,555
29	University of Michigan - Ann Arbor	27,258
39	University of Maryland - College Park	25,410
69	University of Iowa	19,911
78	University of Nebraska - Lincoln	18,817
91	University of Southern California	18,208
16	Florida State University	29,185
45	Virginia Tech	24,841
58	North Carolina State University	21,023
97	University of Pittsburgh	17,887
100	University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill	17,645

Interesting stuff.

It's fascinating that some states decided to consolidate their resources when it comes to higher education. I'm sure there are historical reasons, and I'm guessing they had little to do with building college football fanbases. North Carolina certainly went with a different approach. NC is the 9th biggest state by population and has 18 Division I universities; only CA, NY, and TX have more. NC has 7 schools that play FBS football; only TX and OH have more. NC has 14 schools that play Division I football (FBS or FCS); only TX has more.

[camion]

Interesting stuff.

It's fascinating that some states decided to consolidate their resources when it comes to higher education. I'm sure there are historical reasons, and I'm guessing they had little to do with building college football fanbases. North Carolina certainly went with a different approach. NC is the 9th biggest state by population and has 18 Division I universities; only CA, NY, and TX have more. NC has 7 schools that play FBS football; only TX and OH have more. NC has 14 schools that play Division I football (FBS or FCS); only TX has more.

Note that the largest schools tend to be in cold weather areas. Historically they probably needed to huddle together for warmth.

[Indoor66]

Note that the largest schools tend to be in cold weather areas. Historically they probably needed to huddle together for warmth.

Maybe that huddling was for a different reason.

[uh_no]

Interesting stuff.

It's fascinating that some states decided to consolidate their resources when it comes to higher education. I'm sure there are historical reasons, and I'm guessing they had little to do with building college football fanbases. North Carolina certainly went with a different approach. NC is the 9th biggest state by population and has 18 Division I universities; only CA, NY, and TX have more. NC has 7 schools that play FBS football; only TX and OH have more. NC has 14 schools that play Division I football (FBS or FCS); only TX has more.

land grant universities. unc predates that, i believe.

[sagegrouse]

The extreme case is Wyoming, pop. 580,000 (50th). It is the only four-year college in the entire state. The state U. is in Laramie and has an undergrad enrollment of 8,900 (total is 12,600).

[CameronBornAndBred]

So, how legit might this be? Has FSU figured out a way to crack the GOR code?

Florida State's attempt to exit the Atlantic Coast Conference is reportedly gaining momentum. The rumors of the Seminoles' plan to leave the conference started last week, but how the university would navigate its binding contract with the ACC wasn't known then.

However, the latest reports suggest the university will arrange a buyout. According to college football insider Greg Swaim, Florida State will negotiate a $300 million buyout to exit the ACC. This will be the most expensive conference exit in the history of college sports.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-...en-sec-reports

[ChillinDuke]

So, how legit might this be? Has FSU figured out a way to crack the GOR code?


https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-...en-sec-reports

I'm not very in touch with the latest reputable news sites, so pardon my ignorance. Is Sportskeeda a reliable source?

- Chillin