Conference Realignment 2022-23

[Music man55]

Not if, but WHEN all this jumping conferences happens, I wonder how acc basketball will end up looking? Sail with the pilot has long ago sailed away. 😎

[AGDukesky]

This might be the best possible scenario. With all due respect to Jason, I do think the ACC's sky is falling. I find it inconceivable that Clemson is not sniffing around the SEC right now.
And the grant of rights is not as ironclad as one might hope: https://rubbingtherock.com/2021/08/0...t-rights-mean/
Lawyers can have a field day picking this apart.
ACC/AAU members Duke, unc, UVA and GT might all have a fighting chance to get in the B1G once the devouring recommences...(not sure about Pitt).

I know there are people who like to denigrate the B1G (I do it from time to time) but it is a very very strong academic conference with a powerful brand. Do I look forward to a Nebraska hoop rivalry? No, but I no longer look at the ACC with the pleasure I had when there were only eight or nine members...taking on Lville, BC, Syracuse, VT et al is (to me anyway) less inviting than being in the B1G. Plus I love Chicago!

Yeah, if Duke has to leave the ACC then the B1G would be my first choice. And I agree that the ACC is in trouble.

[budwom]

I would imagine some pretty important conversations have taken place between Nina King and the President and Board of Trustees...not to mention our "friends" eight miles down the road.

[TKG]

Not if, but WHEN all this jumping conferences happens, I wonder how acc basketball will end up looking? Sail with the pilot has long ago sailed away. 😎

Jim Thacker and Billy Packer.

[TKG]

I would imagine some pretty important conversations have taken place between Nina King and the President and Board of Trustees...not to mention our "friends" eight miles down the road.

A serious question, why do we need to tie our fortunes to The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill? Other than sentimentality, I just don’t understand it. Is our brand diminished, in the long term, if we pursue our own path and it does not include UNC- CH? Is our long term success somehow inextricably tied to their athletic department? I get that a tradition would be ended and in the short term that might bother some but I believe we should do what is in Duke’s best interest and if UNC-CH happens to part of that then that is by coincidence rather than by design.

[AGDukesky]

A serious question, why do we need to tie our fortunes to The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill? Other than sentimentality, I just don’t understand it. Is our brand diminished, in the long term, if we pursue our own path and it does not include UNC- CH? Is our long term success somehow inextricably tied to their athletic department? I get that a tradition would be ended and in the short term that might bother some but I believe we should do what is in Duke’s best interest and if UNC-CH happens to part of that then that is by coincidence rather than by design.

I agree we don’t have to be paired with UNC but I can see where that pairing might make Duke more desirable. To be clear, I personally have no issue being separated from that ugly shade of blue.

[budwom]

A serious question, why do we need to tie our fortunes to The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill? Other than sentimentality, I just don’t understand it. Is our brand diminished, in the long term, if we pursue our own path and it does not include UNC- CH? Is our long term success somehow inextricably tied to their athletic department? I get that a tradition would be ended and in the short term that might bother some but I believe we should do what is in Duke’s best interest and if UNC-CH happens to part of that then that is by coincidence rather than by design.

https://sports.yahoo.com/big-ten-nam...202540759.html
We don't, but I think most would like to see the rivalry continue, and it's possible that the B1G would see Duke and unc as an attractive package deal. In short, I think a move to the B1G will be in Duke's best interest, and our chances of achieving that are greatly enhanced by making the move with unc. Doesn't mean we have to like them, but politics make strange bedfellows and all that.

[Matches]

The rivalry will continue regardless. It makes too much $$ to go away. Whether that would be true over time if we were in different leagues, I dunno - but at least initially it would continue. $ will find a way.

Frankly, IF (big if) the ACC were to collapse, I think I’d prefer to see Duke in a northeast-based league of “similar” programs (Villanova, Syracuse etc) than the B1G. Football would suffer, without question, but we’d be more competitive in a FB league like that, and we’d still have good hoops.

[mph]

This might be the best possible scenario. With all due respect to Jason, I do think the ACC's sky is falling. I find it inconceivable that Clemson is not sniffing around the SEC right now.
And the grant of rights is not as ironclad as one might hope: https://rubbingtherock.com/2021/08/0...t-rights-mean/
Lawyers can have a field day picking this apart.
ACC/AAU members Duke, unc, UVA and GT might all have a fighting chance to get in the B1G once the devouring recommences...(not sure about Pitt).

I know there are people who like to denigrate the B1G (I do it from time to time) but it is a very very strong academic conference with a powerful brand. Do I look forward to a Nebraska hoop rivalry? No, but I no longer look at the ACC with the pleasure I had when there were only eight or nine members...taking on Lville, BC, Syracuse, VT et al is (to me anyway) less inviting than being in the B1G. Plus I love Chicago!

Good breakdown. I agree that there is very little chance the ACC comes out of this process largely intact. I can’t imagine a scenario where ND becomes a full member and there’s no one else out there that brings us anywhere close to the payouts of the SEC and Big10. Clemson’s administration is guilty of dereliction of duty if they aren’t actively working on an exit plan. The GoR is steep but the final number is likely to be negotiated down and the annual gap in revenue between the SEC and ACC will make it worth it in the long run. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not optimistic. Just one more step in the long, slow death of my interest in college sports.

[sagegrouse]

I agree we don’t have to be paired with UNC but I can see where that pairing might make Duke more desirable. To be clear, I personally have no issue being separated from that ugly shade of blue.

A1 an A2 in the post parade. We are more valuable together than apart.

[TywinBlue]

A1 an A2 in the post parade. We are more valuable together than apart.

Just look at Maryland who went to the B1G without any rival and now is...lost.

[Rickshaw]

A1 an A2 in the post parade. We are more valuable together than apart.

Notre d , would make a nice threesome.
Make an offer they can’t refuse.

[Rickshaw]

Notre d , would make a nice threesome.
Make an offer they can’t refuse.

I know the Irish don’t need us , but they have to land somewhere.
We could talk. "………..gonna be exciting…….not good , exciting.

[Kdogg]

The rivalry will continue regardless. It makes too much $$ to go away. Whether that would be true over time if we were in different leagues, I dunno - but at least initially it would continue. $ will find a way.

Frankly, IF (big if) the ACC were to collapse, I think I’d prefer to see Duke in a northeast-based league of “similar” programs (Villanova, Syracuse etc) than the B1G. Football would suffer, without question, but we’d be more competitive in a FB league like that, and we’d still have good hoops.

If UNC goes without Duke I can't imagine we would schedule them in basketball for a very long time. We still haven't played Maryland even though ESPN would love to schedule it in the ACC/Big Ten challenge.

Reading all the articles about USC and UCLA, I didn't know the utter shambles UCLA's athletic department was in financially. Not only from Covid and Under Armour breaking their contract but from knee capped revenue streams that no other problem I know has. Even in the best of times it would be ridiculous. They make Maryland's athletic department seem like financial genius.

[Steven43]

Selfishly asking because KU has an awesome national hoops brand. Adding that to the Big10 or SEC would add bring great games with UK, Mich State, etc - but that doesn't seem to be moving any needles.

I’m thinking that might be because hardly anybody watches regular season college basketball games these days. I was beyond stunned when I found out how low the national tv rating typically is for Duke v UNC regular season games — even though they’re hyped in a very high profile way on ESPN for a week before the games take place.

Yes, UNC v Duke games get a much higher rating than most other regular season college basketball games, but it’s still trivial compared to that of college football games. It’s sad, but true.

[hallcity]

I’m thinking that might be because hardly anybody watches regular season college basketball games these days. I was beyond stunned when I found out how low the national tv rating typically is for Duke v UNC regular season games — even though they’re hyped in a very high profile way on ESPN for a week before the games take place.

Yes, UNC v Duke games get a much higher rating than most other regular season college basketball games, but it’s still trivial compared to that of college football games. It’s sad, but true.

I think that what the ACC needs is some outrageousness. The conference’s early days featured larger than life characters like Everett Case, Frank McGuire and Bones McKinney. You had to watch the games because ANYTHING might happen. Fistfights, even brawls, were commonplace. Even Dean Smith was outrageous in his own way. People hated the Four Corners but they watched it. Certainly, Lefty Drisell was outrageous. College basketball has become too gray, too respectable. Which ACC coaches or players do you hate? None. That’s the problem.

[TruBlu]

Which ACC coaches or players do you hate? None. That’s the problem.

Short answer: unc

[duke2x]

UNM to PAC-whatever? Yeah, no.

Well, I do agree with what somebody said earlier. At some point, ND is going to have to **** or get off the pot. Genuinely curious though, why not Stanford?

The Pac-12 is now anything Denver or west. You aren't going to get east coast schools to do what UCLA/USC are doing with the Big 10. If they can have 10 schools and a championship game, they will. If they can't, they have to look at schools from the MWC/WAC/B12 to fill the spot. NM fills that requirement along with TTU/CSU/NV/UNLV. Stanford and Cal are not media draws in anything except for that one football play that is eerily similar to 2015.

Upon further reflection, I don't think ND will join the Big 10 without a Florida permanent rival to keep their schedule as close to the current version as possible. Since UF isn't changing, Miami makes the most sense. There's history there, and they are not IUPUI academically even if it would mean a second exception to the AAU requirement. I haven't seen too much excitement playing ACC teams from Miami's wonderful fans. If the final pair is ND/Miami over Duke/UNC and OR/WA, I wouldn't be too surprised. With Duke/UNC, you are basically adding another NW/IN football but a lot of high profile basketball games.

Remember that NW beats the bottom B10 football teams regularly but not as much for Cut's team. We will compete with most of the Big 10 teams in a couple years except for OSU/MI/PSU/WI.

[JasonEvans]

I just saw the article that says the ACC Grant of Rights exit fee is $52 million. I did not know there was any exit fee until now. That $52 mil, while a large figure, is a none-too-difficult pill to swallow if joining the SEC or Big Ten. I want to change my previous, "everything is going to be fine" attitude to "uh-oh."

But, I will say this -- if, for some reason, the SEC and Big Ten do not want to blow up college sports and break off on their own with 20 or so members in each league (and I can think of a lot of reasons why they would be perfectly happy the way things are now with the SEC about to add Texas and Oklahoma while the Big Ten adds USC and UCLA) then I think the ACC may be in a nice position to come out of all this as the third strongest conference.

First of all, the ACC would be the only P5 league that has not undergone a major change of membership lately. Both the Pac 12 and Big 12 have had marquee teams taken from them. That automatically makes the ACC stronger. It may be that the ACC makes itself even stronger by raiding and adding a couple good teams to take the league to 16 (just like the SEC and Big Ten). Obviously, Notre Dame is out there but I am sick of us waiting on the Irish (who will probably eventually pick the Big Ten). I might look at a Baylor or a Texas Tech, moving the ACC TV footprint into the giant Texas market. After that, I am calling Stanford, Arizona, or Washington. I know it makes the ACC name laughable to add these schools, but it is all about survival at this point, not geographic proximity. I suppose we could also look at West Virginia, but I want schools who are going to move the needle on the TV contract.

I think that if the SEC and Big Ten signal they are not interested in any more expansion right now, the ACC is in a great place to be the next raiding party and, in doing so, set themselves up as the third of the major conferences.

[TheTrain]

The UCLA AD said in an interview it was about building a national brand for the university and its athletes. Hmmm

If that is the future of college sports (national branding), then the ACC is crazy not to pick up the Denver, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco and Phoenix markets. Go big or go home.