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Thread: 2022 NBA Draft

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by gofurman View Post
    Who,were the two - or more - UNC centers who washed out of the league recently ? Great college ones

    Help with names
    Kennedy Meeks? Brice Johnson? Luke May? Garrison Brooks? Every scrub they turn into a double double machine by the time they are a upperclassman.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gofurman View Post
    Who,were the two - or more - UNC centers who washed out of the league recently ? Great college ones

    Help with names
    You are probably thinking of Dayr'ron Sharpe (2021 late first round draft pick, played sparingly with Brooklyn this past season)...
    and Tony Bradley (2017 late first round pick, has bounced around Utah, Philly, OKC, and Chicago)

    It is also possible you are thinking of Nassir Little, who was more of a PF than a C (drafted in the mid-late first round in the 2019 draft, has actually carved out a decent rotation role for himself in Portland).
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  3. #23
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    New ESPN Mock Draft

    A new mock draft from ESPN is up: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...caa-tournament

    Paolo, AJ, and Mark are all listed as lottery picks.

    Trevor is listed towards the end of the first round, with Givony mentioning again that the scuttlebutt in NBA circles has been all season that Keels would strongly consider returning to Duke if he doesn't receive a first round guarantee. If I'm Jon Scheyer, I'm telling Trevor to look at what happened to Jaden Ivey, Johnny Davis, and Keegan Murray, who were fringe potential first round picks and/or off the radar as freshmen, but now are all likely Top 10 picks. I think that could be a very compelling argument, especially given a sophomore Trevor would be a primary focus in our offense, and the fact that Trevor won't turn 19 until August.

    Wendell is listed early in the second round. He's going to have an interesting decision to make, I think... while for most juniors, the potential of a guaranteed contract that has come for early second round picks in recent years would be too good to pass up, Wendell is still young for his class. He won't turn 21 until this September (for reference, Cassius Stanley is a full year older than him, something that we know played a role in his decision to go pro early). Given his relative youth, one could argue that returning for another year won't hurt Wendell's draft stock based on his age, and could conceivably get him into the first round (maybe he has an Ochai Agbaji type year?!?!). And there's always the allure of getting a senior night, and being the face of the most recognizable program in the country...

    Long story short, I still remain cautiously optimistic that we could finally get a win as it pertains to draft decisions. And by optimistic, I think there's maybe a 1 in 4 chance we get one of Trevor or Wendell back... but that's much better than the 1 in 10 chance we've been used to lately, haha.
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  4. #24
    100% gone: Paolo, AJ, Mark
    75% gone: Wendell, Keels
    50% gone: Joey, Jaylen

    I'd be happy if we get 2 of the above back next season.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    100% gone: Paolo, AJ, Mark
    75% gone: Wendell, Keels
    50% gone: Joey, Jaylen

    I'd be happy if we get 2 of the above back next season.
    What about Roach?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    What about Roach?
    Yeah... I think that's the bigger unknown.

    Wendell and Keels are arguably 90%+ gone. I mean, this is Duke. If you're a borderline 1st round pick, you are likely gone. The Mark Williams and Grayson Allens of the Duke world are few and far between.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    100% gone: Paolo, AJ, Mark
    75% gone: Wendell, Keels
    50% gone: Joey, Jaylen

    I'd be happy if we get 2 of the above back next season.
    I don't get the pessimism around here about Joey and Jaylen's return (not just you DBA, it's been everywhere). I honestly feel as if we're projecting recent history/frustration onto them.

    Jaylen, in particular, clearly indicated (I forget if it was him directly or a reliable source, maybe it was his high school coach?) after he committed that he viewed himself as a four year Duke player and knew he would have limited playing time initially. Obviously things can change, but have we received any legitimate indication that things have changed beyond us noticing his lack of PT? I know we're scared by Jaemyn and Henry last year, but their situations as high 4* players is different than Jaylen as a fringe 3*/4* prospect.

    Meanwhile, a lot of highly reputable sources indicated after Senior Day that Joey was planning on returning for Year 5. Why have we collectively forgotten about that? We pride ourselves on Duke treating its players right... if there was any chance Joey wouldn't return for a fifth year and we didn't honor his senior night, that would be one of the biggest slaps in the face to a player from ANY program I can think of. I can't imagine K and Scheyer would let that happen.

    Now of course, things can change without warning, and we know how fickle the emotions of college-aged young men can be. But I think we're collectively doing Joey and Jaylen a disservice by assuming things about their state of mind and intentions that all indications are to the contrary. They could still leave, and if they do I'll wish them nothing but the best... but all indications are, based on reputable sources and the players themselves, that the plan has been for them to be here next year. Talking like they're already gone (you haven't done that DBA, but many others on the board have) is not fair to these kids.

    End rant.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    What about Roach?
    I would be shocked if he left. He is the starting PG next season. His role on the team will only expand. It'll be his team. No other team could offer him anything more. The only reason he would leave is if he didn't like being at Duke. That doesn't seem to be the case at all.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    100% gone: Paolo, AJ, Mark
    75% gone: Wendell, Keels
    50% gone: Joey, Jaylen

    I'd be happy if we get 2 of the above back next season.
    I just donít see AJ as warranting a lottery pick.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    What about Roach?
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Yeah... I think that's the bigger unknown.

    Wendell and Keels are arguably 90%+ gone. I mean, this is Duke. If you're a borderline 1st round pick, you are likely gone. The Mark Williams and Grayson Allens of the Duke world are few and far between.
    How is this a bigger unknown? Jeremy is NOWHERE on draft boards right now. If he goes pro, it will be a DJ Steward type decision. If you're worried about a transfer, ask yourself: what would Jeremy gain in his pursuit of a career playing basketball by playing at another school, now that it's very clear he's going to be handed the keys to the Duke program as a junior?

    As with my post above, I feel very uncomfortable when we project things onto players without any actual evidence/reporting. It reflects poorly on us as fans, and also is the type of thing that could gain fire on the internet and hurt Jeremy's (or Jaylen's or Joey's) reputation for absolutely no reason. I think we all (not just you guys, but everyone on this board, including myself!) need to tread carefully when we're projecting our pessimism on retaining players (justifiable, especially based on last year) onto these young men.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    I don't get the pessimism around here about Joey and Jaylen's return (not just you DBA, it's been everywhere). I honestly feel as if we're projecting recent history/frustration onto them.

    Jaylen, in particular, clearly indicated (I forget if it was him directly or a reliable source, maybe it was his high school coach?) after he committed that he viewed himself as a four year Duke player and knew he would have limited playing time initially. Obviously things can change, but have we received any legitimate indication that things have changed beyond us noticing his lack of PT? I know we're scared by Jaemyn and Henry last year, but their situations as high 4* players is different than Jaylen as a fringe 3*/4* prospect.

    Meanwhile, a lot of highly reputable sources indicated after Senior Day that Joey was planning on returning for Year 5. Why have we collectively forgotten about that? We pride ourselves on Duke treating its players right... if there was any chance Joey wouldn't return for a fifth year and we didn't honor his senior night, that would be one of the biggest slaps in the face to a player from ANY program I can think of. I can't imagine K and Scheyer would let that happen.

    Now of course, things can change without warning, and we know how fickle the emotions of college-aged young men can be. But I think we're collectively doing Joey and Jaylen a disservice by assuming things about their state of mind and intentions that all indications are to the contrary. They could still leave, and if they do I'll wish them nothing but the best... but all indications are, based on reputable sources and the players themselves, that the plan has been for them to be here next year. Talking like they're already gone (you haven't done that DBA, but many others on the board have) is not fair to these kids.

    End rant.
    After last offseason, losing Brakefield, Steward, and especially Coleman, I just consider any of the bench guys a potential transfer candidates. It's nothing to do with Jaylen himself. I like what he is and have hope that he develops into a contributing member of the team. Duke needs multi-year guys just like him.

    For the same reasons, I want Joey Baker back. At least early in the season, it would be great to have him come off the bench and hit 40% from 3. He knows the Duke culture and can help set that in practice and in day-to-day interactions. He'd be a heck of asset to the team in Jon Scheyer's first year as head coach.

    Still, neither are going to be starters at Duke. If you are a college player, getting more PT is a real concern. That's why I think there's a chance one or both leaves.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I would be shocked if he left. He is the starting PG next season. His role on the team will only expand. It'll be his team. No other team could offer him anything more. The only reason he would leave is if he didn't like being at Duke. That doesn't seem to be the case at all.
    Thanks and makes sense. I was just trying to confirm you felt it was essentially close to 0% Jeremy would leave. That is very good if it happens!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    How is this a bigger unknown? Jeremy is NOWHERE on draft boards right now. If he goes pro, it will be a DJ Steward type decision. If you're worried about a transfer, ask yourself: what would Jeremy gain in his pursuit of a career playing basketball by playing at another school, now that it's very clear he's going to be handed the keys to the Duke program as a junior?
    What I've learned at Duke over the last decade is kids are more in love with the NBA/playing professional than they are in Duke. And they should be; the NBA/professional basketball is their career while Duke is a stepping stone to get there (a very important stepping stone). The number of kids who have surprised us by staying are few and far between. Grayson Allen is the only one that comes to mind. Mark Williams isn't a great comp as his stock wasn't that high last year. Am I assuming Roach leaves? No, but I am assuming it's a possibility given he hasn't said he's staying.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    As with my post above, I feel very uncomfortable when we project things onto players without any actual evidence/reporting. It reflects poorly on us as fans, and also is the type of thing that could gain fire on the internet and hurt Jeremy's (or Jaylen's or Joey's) reputation for absolutely no reason. I think we all (not just you guys, but everyone on this board, including myself!) need to tread carefully when we're projecting our pessimism on retaining players (justifiable, especially based on last year) onto these young men.
    I think you are being waaaaaaaaaaay too sensitive about this. In this new era of college basketball, transfers are just part of the norm. NIL + transfers = lots of opportunities and lots of movement. If we cannot discuss potential transfers (or the potential to go pro), then we as fans are incredibly naÔve and closed-minded. I do not think that discussing next year's roster with taking into consideration both transfers and pro opportunities is doing any disservice to these kids.

    I get why DBR previously had a "no transfer rumor" policy in place; it was likely because transfers were seen as players not living up to their expectations. But that was also when Duke had 2-3 recruits come in; not 5-6 like we have year in and year out. Transfers are 100% part of the landscape now. Not being able to discuss transfers is like not being able to discuss high school recruiting.

    And lastly, when we talk about transfers, we aren't saying 'I don't like player x; I hope he transfers'. And if a poster is saying that, he/she is few and far between. What I am saying is 200 minute constraint is real and players want to play and they want to develop. And so when talking about the future, taking into consideration transfers and professional basketball opportunities is necessary.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    What I've learned at Duke over the last decade is kids are more in love with the NBA/playing professional than they are in Duke. And they should be; the NBA/professional basketball is their career while Duke is a stepping stone to get there (a very important stepping stone). The number of kids who have surprised us by staying are few and far between. Grayson Allen is the only one that comes to mind. Mark Williams isn't a great comp as his stock wasn't that high last year. Am I assuming Roach leaves? No, but I am assuming it's a possibility given he hasn't said he's staying.



    I think you are being waaaaaaaaaaay too sensitive about this. In this new era of college basketball, transfers are just part of the norm. NIL + transfers = lots of opportunities and lots of movement. If we cannot discuss potential transfers (or the potential to go pro), then we as fans are incredibly naÔve and closed-minded. I do not think that discussing next year's roster with taking into consideration both transfers and pro opportunities is doing any disservice to these kids.

    I get why DBR previously had a "no transfer rumor" policy in place; it was likely because transfers were seen as players not living up to their expectations. But that was also when Duke had 2-3 recruits come in; not 5-6 like we have year in and year out. Transfers are 100% part of the landscape now. Not being able to discuss transfers is like not being able to discuss high school recruiting.

    And lastly, when we talk about transfers, we aren't saying 'I don't like player x; I hope he transfers'. And if a poster is saying that, he/she is few and far between. What I am saying is 200 minute constraint is real and players want to play and they want to develop. And so when talking about the future, taking into consideration transfers and professional basketball opportunities is necessary.
    All very, very fair points... maybe this is just a reflection of my personal preference. I am sensitive to the underbelly of the internet, where something said "speculatively" on Twitter or a message board can, over the course of a couple copy/paste's and rephrasing, all of a sudden be presented as news.

    My worry, which admittedly may be overly dramatic, is this: someone sees a lot of DBR posters with lots of sporks talking about Joey/Jaylen transferring, which then through a game of internet "telephone" starts getting presented as legitimately sourced "rumor". This then can change how these kids are viewed by the media, regardless a lack of a factual foundation.

    Again, you're right that I'm potentially catastrophizing here. But then again, Joey and Jaylen are VERY different situations than in the past becuase we DO have some legitimately sourced evidence against them transferring. I feel like any discussion without including that important caveat gets too close to the border, at least for me, of what's appropriate.

    All that said, YMMV, and we can completely agree to disagree on this.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    All very, very fair points... maybe this is just a reflection of my personal preference. I am sensitive to the underbelly of the internet, where something said "speculatively" on Twitter or a message board can, over the course of a couple copy/paste's and rephrasing, all of a sudden be presented as news.

    My worry, which admittedly may be overly dramatic, is this: someone sees a lot of DBR posters with lots of sporks talking about Joey/Jaylen transferring, which then through a game of internet "telephone" starts getting presented as legitimately sourced "rumor". This then can change how these kids are viewed by the media, regardless a lack of a factual foundation.

    Again, you're right that I'm potentially catastrophizing here. But then again, Joey and Jaylen are VERY different situations than in the past becuase we DO have some legitimately sourced evidence against them transferring. I feel like any discussion without including that important caveat gets too close to the border, at least for me, of what's appropriate.

    All that said, YMMV, and we can completely agree to disagree on this.
    I think you're giving DBR too much credit as a news source

    And I'd like to think that the insiders - the Jim Sumners and Jason Evans of the world - aren't dumb enough to provide credible rumors that spiral out of control.

    I will say that coach speak and player speak, especially in today's world, are pretty meaningless. The number of players who say, "I love Duke" and then go pro is...well, I ran out of fingers to count em. I get Joey and Jaylen are in a different boat; they aren't likely to go pro. And for the record, I think Jaylen is 100% likely to stay. To me, he is the surest thing right now.

    I cannot say the same for Joey. Even if he loves Duke, the facts are that he wasn't part of the rotation in either tournament. Baker didn't play 1 minute in the last 4 games. And he's a senior. His career is not the NBA; it may be overseas or it may be a desk job (there is nothing wrong with a desk job; I love my desk job). If he wants to play another year, his minutes may very well be limited at Duke, especially if Duke is aggressively pursuing another guard/wing in the transfer window.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I think you're giving DBR too much credit as a news source

    And I'd like to think that the insiders - the Jim Sumners and Jason Evans of the world - aren't dumb enough to provide credible rumors that spiral out of control.

    I will say that coach speak and player speak, especially in today's world, are pretty meaningless. The number of players who say, "I love Duke" and then go pro is...well, I ran out of fingers to count em. I get Joey and Jaylen are in a different boat; they aren't likely to go pro. And for the record, I think Jaylen is 100% likely to stay. To me, he is the surest thing right now.

    I cannot say the same for Joey. Even if he loves Duke, the facts are that he wasn't part of the rotation in either tournament. Baker didn't play 1 minute in the last 4 games. And he's a senior. His career is not the NBA; it may be overseas or it may be a desk job (there is nothing wrong with a desk job; I love my desk job). If he wants to play another year, his minutes may very well be limited at Duke, especially if Duke is aggressively pursuing another guard/wing in the transfer window.
    Haha, good point. To clarify though, I'm not saying I put that much weight into our idle speculation (which I don't begrudge, because what else do we have to do for 6 months, haha), but rather than outsiders might and/or purposely weaponize it. Someone outside our family might not be able to, or purposefully might not, differentiate between Jim/Jason and you and I

    That said, I fully acknowledge that I am likely on the overcautious/oversensitive side of this issue. I do think, at minimum, it's reasonable to try to include the necessary nuance into the discussion of these two guys. For me, it would just be beyond the pale if Joey Baker never got a senior night, especially considering how rare four-year seniors are going to be moving forward.
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  17. #37
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    Yeah, I have no idea whether Blakes or Baker will return or not. Neither would surprise me. I will say that if playing time is what they are after then a transfer is their best course of action, as it would appear that neither is well-positioned to see much time next year.

    Yes, Baker skipped out on senior night. And as such, it's possible that he's making a choice of familiarity over playing time. But with Whitehead coming in and with us looking for a transfer on the perimeter, it feels like he's in a "competing with Schutt and maybe Blakes for a 10-15 mpg role" situation again.

    Blakes is in a slightly diffferent situation in that he has more years to work with. But he is still facing a pretty brutal uphill battle for playing time. He isn't likely to see a ton of time next year, and with McCain and Foster (at minimum) coming in in 2023, it's hard to see him having a major role as a junior. So, again, he might choose to return, but he would be making a choice for reasons other than playing time.

    Obviously not everyone chooses playing time first. Baker is a clear example of that. But in this era, we have to at least consider the possibility that a guy is going to choose playing time over program. Because that's usually how it plays out.

  18. #38
    No surprise here as TyTy Washington declares for the NBA Draft. He joins Keion Brooks, Jr. as going pro.

    The big questions for Kentucky are Shaedon Sharpe and Oscar Tshiebwe. Both are foreign-born and I believe on F1 Visas. That F1 visas block players from taking money they may earn from NIL deals. That means that the players cannot access the funds, not that they cannot sign NIL deals. At least, that's how I interpret what is happening. I might be wrong on that one. At any rate, if either wants to get paid sooner rather than later, they may be forced to go pro. Losing one or both would be a big blow to Kentucky's roster next year. If they both return (or stay for the first year in Sharpe's case), Kentucky could be a strong favorite for #1 team in the nation entering next season. If it is just Tshiebwe, they still might have a top 5 or even #1 roster heading into the season with other transfer portal additions.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    A new mock draft from ESPN is up: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...caa-tournament

    Paolo, AJ, and Mark are all listed as lottery picks.

    Trevor is listed towards the end of the first round, with Givony mentioning again that the scuttlebutt in NBA circles has been all season that Keels would strongly consider returning to Duke if he doesn't receive a first round guarantee. If I'm Jon Scheyer, I'm telling Trevor to look at what happened to Jaden Ivey, Johnny Davis, and Keegan Murray, who were fringe potential first round picks and/or off the radar as freshmen, but now are all likely Top 10 picks. I think that could be a very compelling argument, especially given a sophomore Trevor would be a primary focus in our offense, and the fact that Trevor won't turn 19 until August.

    Wendell is listed early in the second round. He's going to have an interesting decision to make, I think... while for most juniors, the potential of a guaranteed contract that has come for early second round picks in recent years would be too good to pass up, Wendell is still young for his class. He won't turn 21 until this September (for reference, Cassius Stanley is a full year older than him, something that we know played a role in his decision to go pro early). Given his relative youth, one could argue that returning for another year won't hurt Wendell's draft stock based on his age, and could conceivably get him into the first round (maybe he has an Ochai Agbaji type year?!?!). And there's always the allure of getting a senior night, and being the face of the most recognizable program in the country...

    Long story short, I still remain cautiously optimistic that we could finally get a win as it pertains to draft decisions. And by optimistic, I think there's maybe a 1 in 4 chance we get one of Trevor or Wendell back... but that's much better than the 1 in 10 chance we've been used to lately, haha.
    Where does it have Caleb Love?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I would be shocked if he left. He is the starting PG next season. His role on the team will only expand. It'll be his team. No other team could offer him anything more. The only reason he would leave is if he didn't like being at Duke. That doesn't seem to be the case at all.
    Agreed. If he'd had a stellar FF, culminating in a national title, with 2 more games like the ones he'd played so far in the NCAAT....Maybe he leaves. MAYBE. But he had a pretty mediocre game vs UNC in the FF, which ended in a loss.
    .
    He's got to see that a summer refining his 3pt shot could catapult him into the mid 20s of the first round. He'd be the rookie deal cheap backup on a playoff team. He won't be drafted as is. He played much better this season than last season, but last season was pretty bad. He ended on the upswing.
    .
    Once the season is really behind us, and eyes truly turn towards next season (once recruiting and transfers essentially finalize), Roach will start getting a lot of media attention mentioning how well he played last year. He'll be on preseason PG award lists, all conf teams, etc. If he backs that up with stellar play on team where he's likely to be the unquestioned on court leader, first round is there for the taking.

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