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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    I see six players that will get most of the minutes with that group. Back court: Roach and Keels. Front court: Lively, Flip, Mitchell and Whitehead. Would a big man want to take a chance on transferring? Although Whitehead will probably play the wing and Flip can play the SF spot as well, but if history repeats it's self, Trevor is gone. When DJ left last season, that pretty much sold me on players leaving if they even smell a hint they will be drafted. But that's another subject.

    GoDuke
    Flip cannot play SF.
    .
    It really bugs me when posters, or media pundits, talk about a player's position based on his offensive skill set. I'm not worried about scoring. When you recruit players in the top 150, scoring isn't likely to be a problem. Even kids on the low end of that scale, by their Soph or older season (and guys in that range are rarely early entry candidates) they are at least capable on Offense. Top 50 kids can contribute on O, at a significant level, almost immediately. Even very raw players, whose ranking is based on athleticism and size, can contribute garbage buckets.
    .
    When we evaluate rosters, playing time, and position, those decisions need to be based on DEFENSE. IE what position can that player defend in a M2M based scheme.
    .
    I'm not sure Flip will be athletic enough to defend top tier PFs, much less SFs. In college, there are a lot of SFs with SG size. How eager is anyone to watch Flip chase around 6'6 athletes? I'm not keen on seeing that. Frankly, Flip and Lively were very smart to pair up. Flip's offensive skills seem closer to a college level Joker, with the accompanying defensive woes. Luckily, I think Flip's defensive issues will be mitigated by Lively, so long as we devise as system that doesn't require Lively to leave the paint all that often. Flip can be over aggressive on D, leveraging his height/length, secure in the knowledge that Lively is behind him to clean up mistakes. Lively will likewise benefit from a very skilled perimeter oriented PF to draw bodies away from the paint and then pass it to Lively over the top.
    .
    But Flip isn't likely to spend much time playing SF. That would be a defensive disaster.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I think the answer is that we lay off completely filling our roster with inexperienced but talented freshmen and hold some spots for the portal, hoping to get more experienced talent that way. I fully expect there's going to be some trial and error and it will take some years to find the right balance.
    I think some folks around here are overestimating Duke's appeal on the transfer market. Sure, tons of kids would probably love the basketball aspect of playing at Duke. Some kids will be looking for a big time hoops experience after a few years at a lower level school, or one that isn't a hoops power. I am just not sure that their wishes include the step up in academics. Upper level classes at Duke, starting in the Jr year, take a big step up in difficulty, and that is just on the liberal arts side. The STEM demands are astronomical. Many of our OADs probably don't anticipate being around for those classes. As they finish their degrees later on, they can take 1 or 2 classes at a time, which really lessens the demands/difficulty. Regardless, kids committing to Duke know the score. I'm not sure a kid will chose a few years, or even 1, at Duke with the increased academic load.
    .
    Grad transfers, sure. Pick an easier masters program and let a PHd candidate hold his hand (if needed) for the entire year, and get a couple harder classes out of the way in the summer.
    .
    But if a kid can transfer to Bama or Duke or UK or UM or MSU......There are schools where you could get close to hoops experience, with less work, and less likelihood of getting supplanted or sidelined or having a role really lessened by Duke's recruiting classes.
    .
    UK's Oscar was a success. The other transfers have been Meh. Solid starters, but Oscar is driving that team. Outside of him, the biggest impacts have been grad transfers, and they'll start running out in the next few years thanks to that Covid amnesty becoming exhausted.
    .
    I remain doubtful that all that many transfers will be interested in Duke for a few reasons.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    In that scenario, we need another Theo John. That's probably it.



    If someone as good as Tshiebwe were to express interest (and obviously it can't/won't be him, but if someone like him is available), you take him and figure it out later.

    As for our particular team. If/when Moore and Keels (and maybe Baker) leave, then we need at least another John, a starting guard (preferably one who can play like a PG), and another veteran wing.

    To be clear, I doubt we ever get to the point where we are using all 13 scholarships. And I don't think we need to do that. But we need to be at at least 10 or 11 every year. And ideally there are several veterans among those 10-11. Whether that is through guys returning or the transfer portal, it's not great to have more than 4-5 freshmen on the roster at a time, and ideally you aren't relying on all 4-5 as major contributors.

    As this formula relates to next season, ideally we are only relying on Whitehead, Lively, and Flip as key contributors, with Mitchell playing a smaller role and Schutt being a developmental guy like Blakes was this year. So if only Roach and Blakes return, then it carries forward that we are short 1-2 perimeter guys (depending upon how the team feels about Blakes) and a big to complete our 7-man rotation, with Mitchell serving as the 8th and Reaves and Schutt as developmental guys.

    Again I am making progress in this train of thought..."aggressively" going after transfers to me is using all 13 scholarships and when the portal opens you recruit like you do HS players...I want to get the top ones no matter what position because they have more experience.

    Now CDu this next comment is not meant to be directed to you but if all the team next year needs is Theo John than Coach K was "aggressive" in the transfer portal last year because he got Theo and Bates. (and they went 28-6 and are ACC regular season champions and a 2 seed [you can tell me to shut up now])

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    Again I am making progress in this train of thought..."aggressively" going after transfers to me is using all 13 scholarships and when the portal opens you recruit like you do HS players...I want to get the top ones no matter what position because they have more experience.
    I am using the term "aggressive" differently. When I say aggressively, I mean going after big names in the market. I don't think the level of aggressiveness has much to do with the number of scholarships used. For example, we are extremely aggressive on the high school recruiting trail every year despite rarely ever filling all 13 scholarships.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    Now CDu this next comment is not meant to be directed to you but if all the team next year needs is Theo John than Coach K was "aggressive" in the transfer portal last year because he got Theo and Bates. (and they went 28-6 and are ACC regular season champions and a 2 seed [you can tell me to shut up now])
    I wouldn't call getting John (who was planning on moving on with his life until Duke called) or Jones (hardly a priority recruit, as he wasn't even a starter at Davidson) being aggressive on the market. I think we could/should have been more aggressive on the guard/wing market, but c'est la vie. We didn't need to be aggressive on the big man market due to Williams returning and Banchero arriving, so we took more fringe guys (one rotation guy, one end-of-bench guy) to fill out the frontcourt.

    As for next year, if we have Moore, Keels, and Baker back next year (which isn't going to happen, but just playing along), then I don't think we'd need to be aggressive on the transfer market next year. We'd need another Theo John, but that's about it. But if/when a couple or all of those 3 guards leave, then we'll need to be aggressive on the market. Getting only our typical return on the transfer portal (i.e., nothing, or backups to end-of-the-bench guys) will leave us glaringly deficient.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    Notre Dame got a good TP player. Star of the Rutgers game last night,Paul Atkinson of Yale.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    I was joking a bit about John and Jones being "aggressive pursuit of transfers". Overall, thanks for the great discussion I think I will pay attention to the tournament and get back to this once we know who is leaving the program and what holes need to be filled.

  7. #47
    How many Oklahoma transfers are playing huge roles this season? I missed the subtext of the story...

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    So if only Roach and Blakes return, then it carries forward that we are short 1-2 perimeter guys (depending upon how the team feels about Blakes) and a big to complete our 7-man rotation, with Mitchell serving as the 8th and Reaves and Schutt as developmental guys.
    Mitchell is ranked #13 in the Summer RSCI. I've seen him listed as a "combo forward." You don't think he'll be capable of serving as the 3rd big/6th or 7th man?

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Mitchell is ranked #13 in the Summer RSCI. I've seen him listed as a "combo forward." You don't think he'll be capable of serving as the 3rd big/6th or 7th man?
    I donít like the idea of having only freshmen in the frontcourt. Talent isnít my concern with the frontcourt. Experience/age is. Especially in the frontcourt, age and physical maturity are important to me. Both in practice and in games.

  10. #50
    I think we can take from the Kentucky game last night that you cannot rely on a team full of transfers.

    (that was sarcasm, just to be abundantly clear)

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I think we can take from the Kentucky game last night that you cannot rely on a team full of transfers.

    (that was sarcasm, just to be abundantly clear)
    Hahaha... Yes, well played.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I think we can take from the Kentucky game last night that you cannot rely on a team full of transfers.

    (that was sarcasm, just to be abundantly clear)
    Man, I really hope we don't lose today, or else you cannot rely on a team full of OADs.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Man, I really hope we don't lose today, or else you cannot rely on a team full of OADs.
    Well, and it's clear that teams of four year players with no transfers and no OADs can't win either.

    I suppose us losing today (heaven forbid) would solidify that absolutely no one can win this year.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Well, and it's clear that teams of four year players with no transfers and no OADs can't win either.

    I suppose us losing today (heaven forbid) would solidify that absolutely no one can win this year.
    Exactly. Everyone is a loser.

    If youíre Calipari, you are an extra special loser.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by HayYou View Post
    Flip cannot play SF.
    .
    It really bugs me when posters, or media pundits, talk about a player's position based on his offensive skill set. I'm not worried about scoring. When you recruit players in the top 150, scoring isn't likely to be a problem. Even kids on the low end of that scale, by their Soph or older season (and guys in that range are rarely early entry candidates) they are at least capable on Offense. Top 50 kids can contribute on O, at a significant level, almost immediately. Even very raw players, whose ranking is based on athleticism and size, can contribute garbage buckets.
    .
    When we evaluate rosters, playing time, and position, those decisions need to be based on DEFENSE. IE what position can that player defend in a M2M based scheme.
    .
    I'm not sure Flip will be athletic enough to defend top tier PFs, much less SFs. In college, there are a lot of SFs with SG size. How eager is anyone to watch Flip chase around 6'6 athletes? I'm not keen on seeing that. Frankly, Flip and Lively were very smart to pair up. Flip's offensive skills seem closer to a college level Joker, with the accompanying defensive woes. Luckily, I think Flip's defensive issues will be mitigated by Lively, so long as we devise as system that doesn't require Lively to leave the paint all that often. Flip can be over aggressive on D, leveraging his height/length, secure in the knowledge that Lively is behind him to clean up mistakes. Lively will likewise benefit from a very skilled perimeter oriented PF to draw bodies away from the paint and then pass it to
    Lively over the top.

    But Flip isn't likely to spend much time playing SF. That would be a defensive disaster.
    May I please suggest Sawyer Products Premium Insect Repellent for your bug problems. You do have some good takes on next years team. If the starting five next season is Jeremy, Trevor (Wendell), Flip, Whitehead and Lively, then Whitehead would probably guard the SF and Flip the PF. However, we have no idea who will be on the team next season and we won't know how the newcomers will defend. We thought that this years team would be really good on defense and they were for a good part of the season. I think Mitchell might be the wild card next year because from what I've read, he's probably going to a good defender and so should Whitehead.

    GoDuke!

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Transfer Portal Rankings

    Evan Miyakawa now has rankings of players in the transfer portal at www.evanmiya.com. Not my cup of tea, but some of you may find it interesting.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Evan Miyakawa now has rankings of players in the transfer portal at www.evanmiya.com. Not my cup of tea, but some of you may find it interesting.
    Not 100% sure how their games fit, but his rankings show in the mid-30's-40's of available TP players PF Bryce Golden from Butler and C Ryan Young from Northwestern -- depending on whether those guys are looking more for PT or more to win, one of them might be a reasonable option for a backup PF/C next year to take the Theo John role?

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Ryan Young is not very mobile. He is a pure low post player and probably would be exposed in Dukeís man to man.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    I don't feel like PF/C will be a priority for Duke in the portal. Feels more like shooting and ballhandling (depending on decisions of Roach and Keels and possibly Moore). I suspect Lively, Flip, and Mitchell are going to get nearly all the PF/C minutes next season.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    South Carolina Gamecocks top scorer Jermaine Couisnard enters transfer portal

    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ransfer-portal

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