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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    2022 MBB ACC Awards Discussion Thread

    Well, we are down to the final week of the ACC season. Most of the teams have 2 games left, but a few only have 1 (like Wake and UVa). With 90+% of the regular season done, we can probably start making reasonable assessments of the awards. I'll start with our Duke players, and their conference-only stats (which are supposedly what the voters use, although I acknowledge that there is human nature factored in too).

    Duke has just 2 players in the top-25 in scoring: Banchero (7th, 16.8 ppg) and Griffin (T24th, 13.0 ppg).
    Duke has 3 players in the top-15 in multiple "count stat" categories: Banchero (also 2nd in rebounds per game and 11th in assists), Williams (T1st in blocks per game; T3rd in rebounds per game), and Moore (6th in assists, 12th in steals)

    With the general over-reliance on scoring, I suspect we get just the one 1st team guy. Especially as I suspect Bacot gets the 1st Team C spot (no reason they couldn't have 2 centers on the first team, but that probably isn't how folks will think). I think Williams makes 2nd or 3rd team in spite of the lack of scoring, which is largely due to lack of minutes (his per-40 stats would definitely be top-25 in scoring among those with 20+ mpg).

    My early guesses are:

    1st Team:
    Alondes Williams (Wake, PoY): 2nd in scoring, 1st in assists, 14th in rebounds
    Banchero (Duke, FoY): 7th in scoring, 2nd in rebounding, 11th in assists, 12th in blocks, 1st in FG%
    Bacot (UNC): 5th in scoring, 1st in rebounding, 4th in blocks
    B. Boeheim (Cuse): 1st in scoring, 15th in assists
    McGusty (Miami): 6th in scoring, 2nd in steals, 20th in assists

    2nd Team:
    Aluma (VT): 4th in scoring, 9th in rebounds
    LaRavia (Wake): 13th in scoring, 8th in rebounding, 7th in assists, 13th in blocks, 13th in steals
    Williams (Duke, DPoY): T4th in rebounding, T1st in blocks
    Wesley (ND): 14th in scoring, 11th in steals, 24th in assists (this is the "human factor" spot with voters giving a nod to the best player on the "second-best" team)
    C. Moore (Miami): 19th in scoring, 3rd in assists, 1st in steals

    3rd Team:
    Gardner (UVa): 11th in scoring, 17th in rebounding
    PJ Hall (Clemson): 9th in scoring, 24th in rebounding, 10th in blocks
    Hugley (Pitt): 3rd in rebounding, 17th in scoring
    Love (UNC): 12th in scoring, 7th in assists, 22nd in steals
    Seabron (NC St): 8th in scoring, 11th in rebounds, 19th in assists, 25th in steals

    Honorable Mention:
    W. Moore (Duke): 6th in assists, 12th in steals
    T. Smith (NC St): 3rd in scoring
    Beekman (UVa): 2nd in assists and 4th in steals (really he should probably be on an actual team, but the lack of scoring will hurt him)
    Manek (UNC): 15th in scoring, 23rd in rebounds,
    DeVoe (GT): 10th in scoring, 22nd in assists, 15th in steals

    Freshman Team:
    Banchero (Duke)
    Wesley (ND)
    Smith (NC St)
    Keels (Duke)
    Griffin (Duke)

    Coach of the Year: Steve Forbes (like it or not, the award has settled into the "coach whose team did better than expected" award, and that means either Forbes or Larranaga).

    Still time to change that narrative, but that's where I'm sitting at the moment.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Well, we are down to the final week of the ACC season. Most of the teams have 2 games left, but a few only have 1 (like Wake and UVa). With 90+% of the regular season done, we can probably start making reasonable assessments of the awards. I'll start with our Duke players, and their conference-only stats (which are supposedly what the voters use, although I acknowledge that there is human nature factored in too).

    Duke has just 2 players in the top-25 in scoring: Banchero (7th, 16.8 ppg) and Griffin (T24th, 13.0 ppg).
    Duke has 3 players in the top-15 in multiple "count stat" categories: Banchero (also 2nd in rebounds per game and 11th in assists), Williams (T1st in blocks per game; T3rd in rebounds per game), and Moore (6th in assists, 12th in steals)

    With the general over-reliance on scoring, I suspect we get just the one 1st team guy. Especially as I suspect Bacot gets the 1st Team C spot (no reason they couldn't have 2 centers on the first team, but that probably isn't how folks will think). I think Williams makes 2nd or 3rd team in spite of the lack of scoring, which is largely due to lack of minutes (his per-40 stats would definitely be top-25 in scoring among those with 20+ mpg).

    My early guesses are:

    1st Team:
    Alondes Williams (Wake, PoY): 2nd in scoring, 1st in assists, 14th in rebounds
    Banchero (Duke, FoY): 7th in scoring, 2nd in rebounding, 11th in assists, 12th in blocks, 1st in FG%
    Bacot (UNC): 5th in scoring, 1st in rebounding, 4th in blocks
    B. Boeheim (Cuse): 1st in scoring, 15th in assists
    McGusty (Miami): 6th in scoring, 2nd in steals, 20th in assists

    2nd Team:
    Aluma (VT): 4th in scoring, 9th in rebounds
    LaRavia (Wake): 13th in scoring, 8th in rebounding, 7th in assists, 13th in blocks, 13th in steals
    Williams (Duke, DPoY): T4th in rebounding, T1st in blocks
    Wesley (ND): 14th in scoring, 11th in steals, 24th in assists (this is the "human factor" spot with voters giving a nod to the best player on the "second-best" team)
    C. Moore (Miami): 19th in scoring, 3rd in assists, 1st in steals

    3rd Team:
    Gardner (UVa): 11th in scoring, 17th in rebounding
    PJ Hall (Clemson): 9th in scoring, 24th in rebounding, 10th in blocks
    Hugley (Pitt): 3rd in rebounding, 17th in scoring
    Love (UNC): 12th in scoring, 7th in assists, 22nd in steals
    Seabron (NC St): 8th in scoring, 11th in rebounds, 19th in assists, 25th in steals

    Honorable Mention:
    W. Moore (Duke): 6th in assists, 12th in steals
    T. Smith (NC St): 3rd in scoring
    Beekman (UVa): 2nd in assists and 4th in steals (really he should probably be on an actual team, but the lack of scoring will hurt him)
    Manek (UNC): 15th in scoring, 23rd in rebounds,
    DeVoe (GT): 10th in scoring, 22nd in assists, 15th in steals

    Freshman Team:
    Banchero (Duke)
    Wesley (ND)
    Smith (NC St)
    Keels (Duke)
    Griffin (Duke)

    Coach of the Year: Steve Forbes (like it or not, the award has settled into the "coach whose team did better than expected" award, and that means either Forbes or Larranaga).

    Still time to change that narrative, but that's where I'm sitting at the moment.
    Looking at the list you almost want to put together an all "transfer portal" team

    Williams (WF)
    LaRavia (WF)
    Moore (Miami)
    Beekman (UVA)
    Manek (unc)

    did I get this right? who am I missing?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    Looking at the list you almost want to put together an all "transfer portal" team

    Williams (WF)
    LaRavia (WF)
    Moore (Miami)
    Beekman (UVA)
    Manek (unc)

    did I get this right? who am I missing?
    Beekman wasnít a transfer. Gardner was. Also, Cam McGusty was too. And Caleb Mills. And Jimmy Boeheim. And Paul Atkinson. The guys after Gardner and McGusty would be 2nd teamers.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    CDu, if Duke wins the last two, I think Coach K will get COY. The fact he has been ignored so long will work in his favor

  5. #5
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    CDu, if Duke wins the last two, I think Coach K will get COY. The fact he has been ignored so long will work in his favor
    Yeah, if there was going to be a year where the voters deviate from the norm, this might be it. Definitely a possibility.

  6. #6
    I'll concede my bias, but I don't see any justification for placing Caleb Love above Wendell Moore.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    CDu, if Duke wins the last two, I think Coach K will get COY. The fact he has been ignored so long will work in his favor
    One can only hope...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    The optimist in me thinks Mark has an outside but decent shot at the 1st team, especially if voters look beyond raw stats to true impact (not to mention efficiency). I could also see Wendell and/or AJ sneaking onto the 3rd team. Although his offense has slumped in conference play, Moore has been an strong defender throughout and his full season stats are pretty solid all around. By contrast, AJ started slowly, but has been very good and at times dominant in ACC play. On offense anyway.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    CDu, if Duke wins the last two, I think Coach K will get COY. The fact he has been ignored so long will work in his favor
    It's possible.

    I don't know how the "K tour" is playing among media members. But COY has always been a "feel good" award.

    I anticipate Forbes gets it.

  10. #10
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Gator View Post
    I'll concede my bias, but I don't see any justification for placing Caleb Love above Wendell Moore.
    If I was a voter, I agree. Just trying to guess what the voters would do. And the stats - most notably scoring - are a bit more favorable to Love.

    I also agree that Williams deserves 1st team consideration. But I suspect the scoring will hurt him, as will the potential (donít put two Cs on the 1st team) bias.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    It's possible.

    I don't know how the "K tour" is playing among media members. But COY has always been a "feel good" award.

    I anticipate Forbes gets it.
    Yeah nothing says COY quite like losing by double figures to a bottom-three (at the time) team playing without its two best players :-p

    Seriously, itíd be one thing if he produced that turn around with the same core group of players but he heavily leaned on the transfer portal to improve his roster.

    I agree with you though, you can just tell itís going to be himó just pointing out the silliness.

  12. #12
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yeah, if there was going to be a year where the voters deviate from the norm, this might be it. Definitely a possibility.
    I posted this in another thread, but the common parlance that the COY goes to the biggest overachiever doesnít necessarily square with past results. 7 of the last 10 COY awards went to the coach who finished first in the regular season (and of the other 3, one went to a 2nd place finisher (Larranaga 2016), one a 3rd (Young 2021), and, in what both in the moment and in retrospect felt like a colossally silly choice, one 11th (Pastner 2017)).
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Yeah there's no way K is winning COY in a year when he has undeniably the most talent in the league and everybody picked us to finish first in the preseason. I'm not sure Keels will make it onto the all-freshman team given his inconsistent shooting plus he missed several games. Also having one team occupy 3/5 of the list would be a bad look for the voters. Overall I really like your lists though.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA

    Brey

    Why is everyone penciling in Forbes for the COY? I understand the 'does the most with the least' argument (and agree this is the main criteria), but shouldn't this go to Notre Dame?

    WF was preseason ranked #13 and currently sits 5th with 4 games behind the leaders.

    Notre Dame was preseason ranked #8 and currently sits 2nd with 1 game behind the leaders.

    To me, Brey absolutely deserves COY over Forbes. If we are talking ACC alone instead of the whole season, it's Brey all day.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  15. #15
    It is a bit of bummer, given how well he was playing in Nov/Dec, that there is a chance that Wendell doesn't make an All-ACC team. Does the voting happen after the season or after the ACCT?

  16. #16
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    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by azzefkram View Post
    It is a bit of bummer, given how well he was playing in Nov/Dec, that there is a chance that Wendell doesn't make an All-ACC team. Does the voting happen after the season or after the ACCT?
    After the regular season ends. And yes, if you had told me on January 1 that there was a realistic chance Moore misses the ACC teams, I'd have called you crazy. But here we are, and I think it's a realistic possibility.

    Hopefully he has some big games this week and puts himself in a better spot.

  17. #17
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Also, there is a typo in my first post. "1st in FG%" should obviously be on Mark Williams' ledger, not Banchero's.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    After the regular season ends. And yes, if you had told me on January 1 that there was a realistic chance Moore misses the ACC teams, I'd have called you crazy. But here we are, and I think it's a realistic possibility.
    Fudge. I was hoping he would have more opportunities to move the needle.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Hopefully he has some big games this week and puts himself in a better spot.
    I hope so as well.

  19. #19
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    Feb 2007
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    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Why is everyone penciling in Forbes for the COY? I understand the 'does the most with the least' argument (and agree this is the main criteria), but shouldn't this go to Notre Dame?

    WF was preseason ranked #13 and currently sits 5th with 4 games behind the leaders.

    Notre Dame was preseason ranked #8 and currently sits 2nd with 1 game behind the leaders.

    To me, Brey absolutely deserves COY over Forbes. If we are talking ACC alone instead of the whole season, it's Brey all day.
    Well, as arnie pointed out in a couple of other threads, ND has played basically the easiest unbalanced schedule imaginable.

  20. #20
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    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    Well, as arnie pointed out in a couple of other threads, ND has played basically the easiest unbalanced schedule imaginable.
    But he's clearly winning regardless of something that is not in his control.

    Not sure WF's harder schedule accounts for the 3 additional losses WF has over ND.

    If I was voting, I'd go Brey.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

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