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  1. #1161
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    I hadn't thought about this song in years. Had hoped it became passé about 30 years ago. "I hope the Russians love their children too"

    Past is gone, thou canst not that recall; Future is not, may not be at all;
    Present is, [so] improve the flying hour; Present only is within thy power. - Friar Park Clock Tower [author unknown]

  2. #1162
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    .I can't believe we're back to this "one man holds the fate of the world in his hands" scenario again. It's mind-boggling.
    When did we leave that scenario? I think we permanently entered that scenario when nuclear weapons were developed. And, unfortunately, it’s only a matter of time until someone has the power and stupidity to issue the directive. IMO, the world was very lucky Hitler didn’t have that power.

  3. #1163
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    When did we leave that scenario? I think we permanently entered that scenario when nuclear weapons were developed. And, unfortunately, it’s only a matter of time until someone has the power and stupidity to issue the directive. IMO, the world was very lucky Hitler didn’t have that power.
    Agreed. The nuclear menace is a constant of the modern world, but there are flashpoints that ramp up the concern levels significantly. The apparent sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline may be just such a flashpoint. Of course the finger pointing started immediately, but regardless of who was responsible for the destruction it gives Putin pretense for whatever escalation he may have in mind. His Chechen contract fighters are already urging him to use tactical nukes, which seems bonkers for someone who would be on that potentially irradiated battlefield to say.

  4. #1164
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    "Tactical" is a bit of a misnomer isn't it? Yes tactical weapon yields can be less than "Little Boy" but can also be much greater, it's not a well-defined category. Further once that genie is out of the "bottle" (again) we're on the cusp of a nightmare scenario I don't wish to dream about. The is a real life "Deer Hunter", humanity is playing an insane game of Russian roulette...I can't believe we're back to this "one man holds the fate of the world in his hands" scenario again. It's mind-boggling.
    One of the smallest nuclear weapons ever developed was the Davy Crockett, a battlefield weapon with a yield of 20 tons of TNT.

    DavyCrockettBomb.jpg


    According to this convenient site, if such a weapon were aimed at the White House the radiation radius would barely escape the White House grounds.

  5. #1165
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    One of the smallest nuclear weapons ever developed was the Davy Crockett, a battlefield weapon with a yield of 20 tons of TNT.
    My personal belief is that there is really no such thing as a "tactical" nuclear weapon. ANY use of nuclear armament, no matter how small, goes way, way, way beyond the battlefield.

  6. #1166
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cincinnati
    According to David Petraeus, there’s no way out for Putin:

    “The battlefield reality he faces is, I think, irreversible,” he said. “No amount of shambolic mobilization, which is the only way to describe it; no amount of annexation; no amount of even veiled nuclear threats can actually get him out of this particular situation."
    As to a U.S. likely response if Putin were to use nuclear weapons:

    “Well, again, I have deliberately not talked to Jake about this. I mean, just to give you a hypothetical, we would respond by leading a NATO, a collective effort, that would take out every Russian conventional force that we can see and identify on the battlefield in Ukraine and also in Crimea and every ship in the Black Sea,” Petraeus replied.

  7. #1167
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    According to David Petraeus, there’s no way out for Putin:



    As to a U.S. likely response if Putin were to use nuclear weapons:
    Probably correct. But would then lead to . . . what from Putin? Only thing that seems likely is the use of an even bigger nuke.

  8. #1168
    Not to worry folks - Elon has solved it. Apparently Donbas and Crimea just need a fair election in each region to decide which country they wish to belong to. Also he's figured out that Crimea was part of Russia for a long time so Putin has a good point.

    I'm not going to link to the tweet - don't want to give him the extra hits.

  9. #1169
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Rougemont Nebulae
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Not to worry folks - Elon has solved it. Apparently Donbas and Crimea just need a fair election in each region to decide which country they wish to belong to. Also he's figured out that Crimea was part of Russia for a long time so Putin has a good point.

    I'm not going to link to the tweet - don't want to give him the extra hits.
    Texas first man, they've been waiting longer.
    Last edited by CameronBlue; 10-03-2022 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Austin will decide which planet it wants to join when interstellar travel goes commercial.

  10. #1170
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    Texas first man, they've been waiting longer.
    LOL. I grew up in Texas and from childhood we were proudly taught that we were the only state that had the legal right to secede from the Union.

  11. #1171
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Not to worry folks - Elon has solved it.
    Elon claims he can solve any serious problem, but he cannot. Just look at how quickly he ran away from Amber Heard.

  12. #1172
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    LOL. I grew up in Texas and from childhood we were proudly taught that we were the only state that had the legal right to secede from the Union.
    Exactly! ERCOT is a perfect example of how well their approach has worked.

  13. #1173
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    LOL. I grew up in Texas and from childhood we were proudly taught that we were the only state that had the legal right to secede from the Union.
    So what's stopping them?

  14. #1174
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Western NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    So what's stopping them?
    Uhhh... Been there, done that, didn't work. (unless I misremember my American history)

  15. #1175
    Quote Originally Posted by Section 15 View Post
    Uhhh... Been there, done that, didn't work. (unless I misremember my American history)
    Nobody seems to care. We learned in world history, the very first war was a horrible, devastating, and avoidable event. And, humans have been at war ever since.

  16. #1176
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    So what's stopping them?
    I think Texas’ right of secession was more of widely held belief than something grounded in reality. It was perpetuated by some of my teachers in my rural school. Lots of reasons are given including the fact that Texas was briefly an independent nation (~1836) and the fact that the Resolution for Annexation of Texas included language permitting it to split up into up to four states. And some still argue it has that right:
    https://texassecede.com/faq.php

    But most reputable sources say that the results of the Civil War and Supreme Court rulings make Texas succession illegal:
    https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/texas/2022/06/21/427421/texas-cant-legally-secede-from-the-u-s-despite-popular-myth/amp/

  17. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    I think Texas’ right of secession was more of widely held belief than something grounded in reality. It was perpetuated by some of my teachers in my rural school. Lots of reasons are given including the fact that Texas was briefly an independent nation (~1836) and the fact that the Resolution for Annexation of Texas included language permitting it to split up into up to four states. And some still argue it has that right:
    https://texassecede.com/faq.php

    But most reputable sources say that the results of the Civil War and Supreme Court rulings make Texas succession illegal:
    https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/texas/2022/06/21/427421/texas-cant-legally-secede-from-the-u-s-despite-popular-myth/amp/
    Absolutely! It gets even more complicated by the Spanish Land Grants. Two of my friends own tens of thousands of Texas acres from Spanish Land Grants bestowed in the 1700’s. The six flags of Texas still compete.

  18. #1178
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    I hadn't thought about this song in years. Had hoped it became passé about 30 years ago. "I hope the Russians love their children too"

    Simple, yet powerful and moving. And a great video, too. I was a teen when “Russians” came out and it had a profound effect on me.

    I graduated high school early and moved to West Germany in 1986 to attend the University of Munich. I remember well the day I got off the Straßenbahn (a streetcar) and ran to campus in the pouring rain and for some reason neglected to take a shower after arriving at my dorm, only to find out later that radioactive fallout from the Chernobyl nuclear disaster had drifted over Munich on that day. It had been strongly recommended to scrub your entire body thoroughly with soap and water if you had been in the rain when the contaminated cloud of radioactive fallout was hanging over the region of Bavaria (where Munich is located). But of course information traveled very slowly back then and I had no idea what had happened until it was too late to do anything about it. I’ve worried about the possible negative implications to my health ever since.

    And now there is increasing talk of Russia using tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine. The radiation dangers from small nuclear arms would likely be less than those involving large reactors, like those at Chernobyl. Its radioactive fallout poisoned the land for many miles around and turned villages into ghost towns. Eventually the radiation caused thousands of cases of cancer, with more more likely still to come.

    Last week, the Institute for the Study of War concluded that Russian tactical nuclear use would be a massive gamble for limited gains that would not achieve Putin’s stated war aim of capturing the entirety of Ukraine.

    Let’s hope he (Putin) has been informed of this. 🤞

  19. #1179
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Nobody seems to care. We learned in world history, the very first war was a horrible, devastating, and avoidable event. And, humans have been at war ever since.
    Minor correction: Been at war for the entirety of human history. It's almost like it's in our nature.

  20. #1180
    Quote Originally Posted by TrickDribbles99 View Post
    Minor correction: Been at war for the entirety of human history. It's almost like it's in our nature.
    At our core we are animals fighting over resources. At a slightly higher level, we fight over ideology.

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