Russia & Ukraine

[ClemmonsDevil]

Ukraine, on the other hand, is a unique case. It took 5 days for Ukraine to become the darling of the world. Rightly so.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy is channeling Albert I. And the world love an underdog fighter when they are in the right especially.

[Bluedog]

It's pretty different.

For decades and decades and decades, Western Europeans (important distinction) have always had respect for the US. That recent history you speak of certainly changed the level of positivity, but it was still positive.

With Russia, there has been a growing number of US/W European detractors for the last decade+. And what happened last week solidified a highly negative association with Putin and the country. It will take decades for Russia to get in the good graces of the Western world.

Ukraine, on the other hand, is a unique case. It took 5 days for Ukraine to become the darling of the world. Rightly so.

Fair enough, good points. Was simply suggesting that it's important to not assume all citizenry of a particular leader is always in line with their actions/decision-making.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Volodymyr Zelenskyy is channeling Albert I. And the world love an underdog fighter when they are in the right especially.

Difference is the underdog fighter likely opted in to the fight.

This is more like a Pitbull spontaneously attacking a Cavalier King Charles spaniel, only for the Cavalier to put up a fight and not back down.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Fair enough, good points. Was simply suggesting that it's important to not assume all citizenry of a particular leader is always in line with their actions/decision-making.

Totally agree.

Right now, I despise Russia. I do not have an issue with the Russian people (well, 99%+ of them at least).

[Bluedog]

Difference is the underdog fighter likely opted in to the fight.

This is more like a Pitbull spontaneously attacking a Cavalier King Charles spaniel, only for the Cavalier to put up a fight and not back down.

Uh, have you been watching me? This actually occurred to my dog several years...A portion of his ear got bitten off. He got lucky, though, and didn't suffer anything majorly severe - just some stitches. Those floppy ears saved his life as they were a good target. He did not put up any fight though...The dog broke the leash from a block away and just charged out of nowhere. Took 3 people to get the dog off eventually.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Uh, have you been watching me? This actually occurred to my dog several years...A portion of his ear got bitten off. He got lucky, though, and didn't suffer anything majorly severe - just some stitches. Those floppy ears saved his life as they were a good target. He did not put up any fight though...The dog broke the leash from a block away and just charged out of nowhere. Took 3 people to get the dog off eventually.

Ha! I too have a beautiful Cavalier (blenheim named Mochi).

Fortunately never seen attacked. But I have nightmares about vicious attacks. Not sure my dog would put up a fight...

[ClemmonsDevil]

Difference is the underdog fighter likely opted in to the fight.

This is more like a Pitbull spontaneously attacking a Cavalier King Charles spaniel, only for the Cavalier to put up a fight and not back down.

Great analogy. This is a bully picking a fight he can't lose and then not exactly winning it. At least not without a lot of pain.

[Indoor66]

I'm not really making fun of them as much as stating a trend. They are much better as a defensive power. And I said they had one victory. That was the one.

And they would not have had that one without US armaments and supplies.

[ClemmonsDevil]

And they would not have had that one without US armaments and supplies.

It helped. I am fairly convinced they could never be invaded successfully. Just. So. Big. Dogged determination during WWII as well.

[bundabergdevil]

Neutral Switzerland is apparently neutral no more. The unity in response to Russia has been surprising in its breadth and strength. Pleasantly so.

[swood1000]

What's wrong with this picture?
PutinEconomicTeam.jpg

[Phredd3]

What's wrong with this picture?
PutinEconomicTeam.jpg

It has Putin in it?

[Skydog]

Neutral Switzerland is apparently neutral no more. The unity in response to Russia has been surprising in its breadth and strength. Pleasantly so.

Yes, condemnations of the invasion have been remarkably universal with the exceptions of China, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Belarus, Armenia, Azerbaijan and certain factions of the GOP and Fox News. And before I get accused of being political - just being factual here.

[dudog84]

And they would not have had that one without US armaments and supplies.

But they supplied the blood and guts. But you just keep chanting USA USA! SMH

[ClemmonsDevil]

But they supplied the blood and guts.

Patton was American. Hope people get the reference

[budwom]

While the Russians will almost inevitably subdue Ukraine, it's coming at a huge cost. The Washington Post has an article about how the Russian military has struggled...broken supply lines leading to marooned tanks that are then destroyed, many logistical embarrassments. Part of Vlad's strategy to deploy 190,000 men was to get Kiev to fall quickly, and it isn't happening. Meanwhile the entire world gets to witness their barbarism.

[tommy]

Yes, condemnations of the invasion have been remarkably universal with the exceptions of China, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Belarus, Armenia, Azerbaijan and certain factions of the GOP and Fox News. And before I get accused of being political - just being factual here.

The rest of them, I get, but why would Armenia and Azerbaijan be inclined to side with Russia on this? They are both former Soviet republics who have now been independent for a number of years, and apparently successfully so. I don't know what their internal politics are, but maybe someone on here could enlighten me and others as to why they're not condemning this invasion? Don't they fear, as non-NATO members, they could be next? I guess that could motivate them to act in either direction.

[Bluedog]

Yes, condemnations of the invasion have been remarkably universal with the exceptions of China, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Belarus, Armenia, Azerbaijan and certain factions of the GOP and Fox News. And before I get accused of being political - just being factual here.

I'm not trying to be political either and just want facts but just curious if Trump has weighed in? I haven't seen anything reported...

Answering my own question by Google/the Independent. Headlines would have you believe Trump supports it because he calls Putin 'smart' and US leaders 'dumb' but despite those labels, he stated: "The Russian attack on Ukraine is appalling, an outrage and an atrocity that should have never been allowed to occur. We are praying for the proud people of Ukraine, God bless them all."

I'm not trying to start a further discussion on Trump though, so probably let's not debate his stance or public policy, but was curious based on your comment.

[wilson]

The rest of them, I get, but why would Armenia and Azerbaijan be inclined to side with Russia on this? They are both former Soviet republics who have now been independent for a number of years, and apparently successfully so. I don't know what their internal politics are, but maybe someone on here could enlighten me and others as to why they're not condemning this invasion? Don't they fear, as non-NATO members, they could be next? I guess that could motivate them to act in either direction.

Here's a general attempt at a guess:

Azerbaijan in terms of its political style is way closer to authoritarian Russia than to the democratic West. Their president, Ilham Aliyev, has been in office since 2003, and before that, his father Heydar was president basically from the moment the post-Soviet dust settled until about six weeks before his death. Azerbaijan is classified as "not free" by Freedom House, which cites significant shortcomings in freedom of speech and the press, human rights indices, and electoral legitimacy. Moreover, Azerbaijan's economy is somewhere on par with the state of Wyoming and its population and military are dwarfed even by those of Ukraine (about 10 million people total vs. almost 45 million people in Ukraine). So not only is Azerbaijan culturally and politically somewhat akin to Russia, but also attempting a military stand would be pretty much suicidal, even accounting for the kinds of fighting intangibles presently on display in Ukraine.

Armenia is similarly dwarfed by Russia (in fact, it's even smaller than Azerbaijan in both population and area...not even 3 million people and a land area smaller than Maryland), though nominally more free and democratic than a number (some would even say most) of the Asian former SSRs. The main rub here is Armenia's western neighbor Turkey. Turkey were the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide of World War I, and for that, the Armenians have largely turned toward and maintained close political relations with Russia for security.

Neither are exactly puppet states like Belarus, but also neither are likely to attempt a break with Moscow, especially with Vlad the Assailer on the increasingly unhinged march. They also saw what happened with the Russian invasion of neighboring Georgia in 2008 (and is still the case in at least part of Georgia today).
I think it's not so much a "Hooray, Russia!" thing for them as it is a "head down, mouth shut" kind of situation.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Here's a general attempt at a guess:

Azerbaijan in terms of its political style is way closer to authoritarian Russia than to the democratic West. Their president, Ilham Aliyev, has been in office since 2003, and before that, his father Heydar was president basically from the moment the post-Soviet dust settled until about six weeks before his death. Azerbaijan is classified as "not free" by Freedom House, which cites significant shortcomings in freedom of speech and the press, human rights indices, and electoral legitimacy. Moreover, Azerbaijan's economy is somewhere on par with the state of Wyoming and its population and military are dwarfed even by those of Ukraine (about 10 million people total vs. almost 45 million people in Ukraine). So not only is Azerbaijan culturally and politically somewhat akin to Russia, but also attempting a military stand would be pretty much suicidal, even accounting for the kinds of fighting intangibles presently on display in Ukraine.

Armenia is similarly dwarfed by Russia (in fact, it's even smaller than Azerbaijan in both population and area...not even 3 million people and a land area smaller than Maryland), though nominally more free and democratic than a number (some would even say most) of the Asian former SSRs. The main rub here is Armenia's western neighbor Turkey. Turkey were the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide of World War I, and for that, the Armenians have largely turned toward and maintained close political relations with Russia for security.

Neither are exactly puppet states like Belarus, but also neither are likely to attempt a break with Moscow, especially with Vlad the Assailer on the increasingly unhinged march. They also saw what happened with the Russian invasion of neighboring Georgia in 2008 (and is still the case in at least part of Georgia today).
I think it's not so much a "Hooray, Russia!" thing for them as it is a "head down, mouth shut" kind of situation.

Man this is spork worthy. At the risk of victim-shaming, it's your own fault I can't spork you for this because you insist on posting so many spork worthy posts.