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  1. #1521
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    Not much difference today .Moscow knew he was there they were informed by us so no real danger was prevelnt.from what I have read.
    So no real danger in either situation.
    There's a counterargument that those circumstances would heighten the danger.

  2. #1522
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    Not much difference today .Moscow knew he was there they were informed by us so no real danger was prevelnt.from what I have read.
    So no real danger in either situation.
    Yeah. Surrounded by U.S. troops vs. no U.S. troops anywhere for hundreds of miles. Total equivalence.
    Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote. - George Jean Nathan

  3. #1523
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Move on, folks.

    -jk

  4. #1524
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Rougemont Nebulae
    I can’t recall a photo op in recent memory that delivered a more powerful message. As if Presented with the old adage “ in for a dime in for a dollar”, Biden clearly has chosen the latter. His visit today sends a message to Putin that Ukraine is lost to Russia forever militarily, Economically, culturally. It’s a big gamble for Biden and the US which has tried To characterize the war as anything else but a proxy war. Bidens visit seems to clarify the picture a bit. If it wasn’t already this has now become a war the United States cannot lose.
    Last edited by CameronBlue; 02-20-2023 at 10:32 PM.

  5. #1525
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    There's a counterargument that those circumstances would heighten the danger.
    Absolutely.i feel that that alone is a sign putin isn't as crazy as seems.
    He's calculated enough to not do anything stupid enough to draw us in further than we are.
    I believe this late spring summer will tell us a lot .

  6. #1526
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Russian press dismayed that Joe got to Kyiv before Vlad did. Some real mocking going on

  7. #1527
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    Not much difference today .Moscow knew he was there they were informed by us so no real danger was prevelnt.from what I have read.
    So no real danger in either situation.
    That simply means that Russia was given a heads up so they would not happen to make any ill timed missile strikes.
    That does not prevent someone from the outside that is inside Kyiv taking an opportunistic shot.
    That being said, Zelenskyy is in Kyiv all the time, and to anyone involved in the war, he's the more pressing target. He's avoided such a dire fate for a very long time now.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  8. #1528
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Russia suspending nuclear arms treaty. Ugh. My doomsday anxiety just spiked.

  9. #1529
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    That simply means that Russia was given a heads up so they would not happen to make any ill timed missile strikes.
    That does not prevent someone from the outside that is inside Kyiv taking an opportunistic shot.
    That being said, Zelenskyy is in Kyiv all the time, and to anyone involved in the war, he's the more pressing target. He's avoided such a dire fate for a very long time now.

    We have enough "advisors on the ground that I'm sure it was mitigated to minimize exposure.
    Like you have stayed Zlenskyy is safe then anyone is.

  10. #1530
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Vlad evidently set off an ICBM to coincide with Joe’s visit and it done blowed up. Vlad can’t be happy with his military industrial complex these days

  11. #1531
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Good news. Still a long time, but better.

    The Pentagon is speeding up its delivery of Abrams tanks to Ukraine, opting to send a refurbished older model that can be ready faster, with the aim of getting the 70-ton battle powerhouses to the war zone in eight to 10 months, U.S. officials told The Associated Press.

    The original plan was to send Ukraine 31 of the newer M1A2 Abrams, which could have taken a year or two to build and ship. But officials said the decision was made to send the older M1A1 version, which can be taken from Army stocks and could be there before the end of the year. Officials said the M1A1 also will be easier for Ukrainian forces to learn to use and maintain as they fight Russia’s invasion.
    https://www.witn.com/2023/03/21/us-s...aine-war-zone/
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  12. #1532
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Good news. Still a long time, but better.


    https://www.witn.com/2023/03/21/us-s...aine-war-zone/
    For those more in the know than I am, why does it take 8 to 10 months to get these tanks delivered? That seems like a really long time, and Ukraine might be finished by then.

  13. #1533
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    The Patriot missile defense system is being shipped quicker, too. Just weeks instead of months.

    Patriot missile defense systems are set to be deployed to Ukraine faster than originally planned and a group of 65 Ukrainian soldiers will complete their training on the systems at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, in the coming days, US defense officials said on Tuesday.

    The troops will then move on to Europe for additional training on the two Patriot systems – one American and one built by the Germans and Dutch – that will be deployed to Ukraine in the coming weeks, the officials told reporters at Fort Sill.
    https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/21/polit...ine/index.html
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  14. #1534
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    For those more in the know than I am, why does it take 8 to 10 months to get these tanks delivered? That seems like a really long time, and Ukraine might be finished by then.
    25 to 35 days by sea .two to three days
    To load/ unload with a experienced stevedore . Probably shipping by rail
    So add 2 to 4 days to load x2 if conditions are not ideal. Rail set up ect. Loading one per truck isn't efficient. I'd guess 6 to 8 weeks from
    The United States to poland.
    The rest of the process I have no idea.
    Not sure how long it takes from military facility to the dock and vice versa.

    We could go faster in a emergency.
    We have 150 plus c17 s each can carry one . 16 hrs round trip. Load and unload
    Included .so two per plane every 32 hrs
    You could do that 5 x in a week.
    So 700 plus tanks could theoretically be delivered in a week as long as you have enough air crew.
    Plus you could use c 5 and c130 for support vehicles and ammo crew.
    That's a lot of wieght to move .

    Compared to ww2 that's screaming fast.

  15. #1535
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    25 to 35 days by sea .two to three days
    To load/ unload with a experienced stevedore . Probably shipping by rail
    So add 2 to 4 days to load x2 if conditions are not ideal. Rail set up ect. Loading one per truck isn't efficient. I'd guess 6 to 8 weeks from
    The United States to poland.
    The rest of the process I have no idea.
    Not sure how long it takes from military facility to the dock and vice versa.

    We could go faster in a emergency.
    We have 150 plus c17 s each can carry one . 16 hrs round trip. Load and unload
    Included .so two per plane every 32 hrs
    You could do that 5 x in a week.
    So 700 plus tanks could theoretically be delivered in a week as long as you have enough air crew.
    Plus you could use c 5 and c130 for support vehicles and ammo crew.
    That's a lot of wieght to move .

    Compared to ww2 that's screaming fast.
    I also don't think they are able to take a tank that is set up for US personnel use and just hand it over untouched. At a minimum, it would need a software update to whatever version is authorized for other countries. Probably some hardware features that have to be changed also. I think this is what they refer to when they talk about refurbishing. It's not like repairs, it's probably more feature and intelligence removal. In order to do this kind of work, you most likely have to have it done by the same facilities/people that would be working on building brand new vehicles, so it's an issue of how you fit them in vs. other orders already in process.

    Oh.. and from personal experience dealing with military contractors, everything takes 3 times as long as commercial projects because of the requirements of the customer.

  16. #1536
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigWayne View Post
    I also don't think they are able to take a tank that is set up for US personnel use and just hand it over untouched. At a minimum, it would need a software update to whatever version is authorized for other countries. Probably some hardware features that have to be changed also. I think this is what they refer to when they talk about refurbishing. It's not like repairs, it's probably more feature and intelligence removal. In order to do this kind of work, you most likely have to have it done by the same facilities/people that would be working on building brand new vehicles, so it's an issue of how you fit them in vs. other orders already in process.

    Oh.. and from personal experience dealing with military contractors, everything takes 3 times as long as commercial projects because of the requirements of the customer.
    Yeah that's the parts I have no experience in .I just know how to load the ship and sea travel.
    But what I discovered we have new tankers for fuel. They 7.6 ft tall 39 ft long 8 ft more square/rectangle than bulky as before .
    They fit on a standard flat rack now.
    Very easy to stow on a container vessel.

    We sent 25 last night.im not sure where
    But it was on a Europe bound container vessel .
    I was pretty impressed with the design .
    Some one took some time to actually think about transport .
    You can unload 40 of them in a hour.
    With 3 guys . Very effeciant.

  17. #1537
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Not ukraine but war is war. Lost a friend of mine in Syria thursday found out last night .
    He was civilian contractor that got killed in the initial strike .
    Just needed to type about it to get it off my chest.really good guy.really shook me.
    I'm really worried about his family they were devastated.

    He's the guy in blue in the middle.


  18. #1538
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    Not ukraine but war is war. Lost a friend of mine in Syria thursday found out last night .
    He was civilian contractor that got killed in the initial strike .
    Just needed to type about it to get it off my chest.really good guy.really shook me.
    I'm really worried about his family they were devastated.

    He's the guy in blue in the middle.

    Very sorry to hear. I saw that news yesterday, and it hits home when it hits a friend. Prayers for his family.

  19. #1539
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    Not ukraine but war is war. Lost a friend of mine in Syria thursday found out last night .
    He was civilian contractor that got killed in the initial strike .
    Just needed to type about it to get it off my chest.really good guy.really shook me.
    I'm really worried about his family they were devastated.

    He's the guy in blue in the middle.
    Awful news. Looks like brothers. Condolences.

  20. #1540
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    Not ukraine but war is war. Lost a friend of mine in Syria thursday found out last night .
    He was civilian contractor that got killed in the initial strike .
    Just needed to type about it to get it off my chest.really good guy.really shook me.
    I'm really worried about his family they were devastated.

    He's the guy in blue in the middle.
    Condolences. Great picture, but I'm sure a small consolation. Best wishes to all his friends and family.

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