MBB: Duke 71, Clemson 69 Post-Game Thread

[Indoor66]

The Coleman I recall was very strong and played very hard, but was not especially agile, athletic or explosive. In other words, not all that different from John.

You know, I don't have any memory of Coleman.

[tommy]

Paolo getting into early foul trouble was a nightmare scenario in a “trap” game. It also showcased that we were missing Keels. But man you have to give Bates Jones a LOT of credit for his first half. Very few of us had him playing meaningful ACC minutes, but meaningful they were!

Jeremy has showed something these last two games, and Joey has become the bench spark plug we’ve been waiting for. His drive in the closing minutes was the type of play we never thought we’d see him make. And his defense was VERY solid.

You’ve got to grind out wins sometimes, and this was a grind out win that a lesser Duke team down a starter loses. Survive and advance, and get healthy for Saturday.

Was wondering, buddy, in what way was this a "trap" game? To me, that term usually means a game for a strong team either coming off a big game or a difficult game, maybe even a rivalry game, or some game where emotions were high, and then has a game against a lesser team, and usually with another big and/or emotional game to follow. The idea being that the strong team may be looking past that "second" or "middle" game and that it is a game where because they are looking past it or not likely to be able to get up for it due to it being sandwiched by two bigger games, it is a "trap" in which they can be ensnared and be in trouble of taking a very unexpected loss. That doesn't fit the Clemson game at all, so in what way were you using the term? Every difficult game by definition is not a "trap" game. Nor is every game that is close or that we lose or almost lose a "trap" game. Sometimes we just don't play well, or the opponent does, or both, but that doesn't mean it was a trap.

[gumbomoop]

Right, the one thing that Wiseman's quote probably does is say that it was at least the straw that broke the camel's back. In other words, that it was possible Coleman might have stayed if John hadn't come. But it doesn't imply that it was more than the straw that broke the camel's back.

We do draw different inferences here. For if Wiseman is saying the John recruitment/commitment “was at least the straw,” then he is implying it was more than that, more than the least.

In general usage, the very idea that X “at least” did Y invariably implies it probably did more than Y. Not certainly, but very probably.

We’re both (all) making inferences here. I think Wiseman’s “flat, cool, blunt” words send a signal — and I do mean a straightforward, not merely “read between the lines” signal — not about the last straw, but about a striking development more central to Coleman’s decision to transfer.

Henry Coleman is a sweet guy, but his ghost has become something of a disquieting presence on DBR. Theo John’s play has not, yet, been a ghostbuster.

[CDu]

We do draw different inferences here. For if Wiseman is saying the John recruitment/commitment “was at least the straw,” then he is implying it was more than that, more than the least.

In general usage, the very idea that X “at least” did Y invariably implies it probably did more than Y. Not certainly, but very probably.

We’re both (all) making inferences here. I think Wiseman’s “flat, cool, blunt” words send a signal — and I do mean a straightforward, not merely “read between the lines” signal — not about the last straw, but about a striking development more central to Coleman’s decision to transfer.

Henry Coleman is a sweet guy, but his ghost has become something of a disquieting presence on DBR. Theo John’s play has not, yet, been a ghostbuster.

Yep, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[MarkD83]

(This is not a critique (sp?) just an observation)

Whenever the talk on the board goes to "what if x player was still with the team", I look at the following site and I just let out a deep sigh...

https://verbalcommits.com/schools/duke

In addition to the current roster and with the extra Covid year and if players had to stay 4 years and if we had unlimited scholarships the current team would also have...

Gary Trent
Marvin Bagley
Wendell Carter
Zion Williamson
RJ Barrett
Cam Reddish
Tre Jones
Vernon Carey
Matthew Hurt
Cassius Stanley
DJ Steward
Jalen Johnson

So, I just look at the current roster and enjoy who is here.

[uh_no]

We do draw different inferences here. For if Wiseman is saying the John recruitment/commitment “was at least the straw,” then he is implying it was more than that, more than the least.

I've made at least 12,147 posts on this site.

[dukelifer]

(This is not a critique (sp?) just an observation)

Whenever the talk on the board goes to "what if x player was still with the team", I look at the following site and I just let out a deep sigh...

https://verbalcommits.com/schools/duke

In addition to the current roster and with the extra Covid year and if players had to stay 4 years and if we had unlimited scholarships the current team would also have...

Gary Trent
Marvin Bagley
Wendell Carter
Zion Williamson
RJ Barrett
Cam Reddish
Tre Jones
Vernon Carey
Matthew Hurt
Cassius Stanley
DJ Steward
Jalen Johnson

So, I just look at the current roster and enjoy who is here.

Are you sure about Jalen ANd I am sure K would only play 8 guys.

[evrim]

I felt like there was a lot of fouls not called. Clemson was grabbing, shoving etc. It got really physical due to the way referees just let a lot of things go. I guess it's a good prep for NCAA...

[-jk]

I felt like there was a lot of fouls not called. Clemson was grabbing, shoving etc. It got really physical due to the way referees just let a lot of things go. I guess it's a good prep for NCAA...

Only 8 total fouls called in the second half. Yeah, they let 'em play.

-jk

[Bluedog]

I felt like there was a lot of fouls not called. Clemson was grabbing, shoving etc. It got really physical due to the way referees just let a lot of things go. I guess it's a good prep for NCAA...

Only 8 total fouls called in the second half. Yeah, they let 'em play.

-jk

It was similar to our E8 loss to MSU in that regard. (Apologies for bringing up that game.) Also a case where the team behind couldn't even have a miracle chance given couldn't put the leading team on the line ...

If only RJ had missed on purpose successfully ... I have no doubt Zion was getting that board. (Or make two FTs I guess.) But such is life...that game wasn't as much of a heartbreaker to me given the earlier games in the tournament and the fact it was a very evenly back and forth affair that either team could have one vs other games were I feel like we SHOULD have won.

[fgb]

(This is not a critique (sp?) just an observation)

Whenever the talk on the board goes to "what if x player was still with the team", I look at the following site and I just let out a deep sigh...

https://verbalcommits.com/schools/duke

In addition to the current roster and with the extra Covid year and if players had to stay 4 years and if we had unlimited scholarships the current team would also have...

Gary Trent
Marvin Bagley
Wendell Carter
Zion Williamson
RJ Barrett
Cam Reddish
Tre Jones
Vernon Carey
Matthew Hurt
Cassius Stanley
DJ Steward
Jalen Johnson

So, I just look at the current roster and enjoy who is here.

Okay, so what exactly is the problem with that team?

[roywhite]

I felt like there was a lot of fouls not called. Clemson was grabbing, shoving etc. It got really physical due to the way referees just let a lot of things go. I guess it's a good prep for NCAA...

Only 8 total fouls called in the second half. Yeah, they let 'em play.

-jk

That's been Clemson's approach for some time under Brownell. Strong and physical; maybe their football success affects their preferred style for basketball. Aamir Simms comes to mind as a really strong, physical player who did indeed "knock us back". Our own football type Trevor Keels would have helped considerably in this game IMO.

[arnie]

That's been Clemson's approach for some time under Brownell. Strong and physical; maybe their football success affects their preferred style for basketball. Aamir Simms comes to mind as a really strong, physical player who did indeed "knock us back". Our own football type Trevor Keels would have helped considerably in this game IMO.

Brownell was asked about Klempsun shooting only one FT. Paraphrasing, he said that type thing happens at Cameron. Close, but not close enough to get reprimanded by ACC.

[arnie]

Brownell was asked about Klempsun shooting only one FT. Paraphrasing, he said that type thing happens at Cameron. Close, but not close enough to get reprimanded by ACC.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...3H-vrjfjeEPuAv

Hope the link works

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Brownell was asked about Klempsun shooting only one FT. Paraphrasing, he said that type thing happens at Cameron. Close, but not close enough to get reprimanded by ACC.

Maybe he saw what happened to Bobby Hurley.

[jv001]

Are you sure about Jalen ANd I am sure K would only play 8 guys.

Only 7 in ACC play. The only player on your list that certain to start would be Zion.

GoDuke!

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Only 7 in ACC play. The only player on your list that certain to start would be Zion.

GoDuke!

But only if Zion was in good physical condition. And that’s a big if.