2021-2022 PGA Tour Season

[Tripping William]

Oh absolutely. But I meant in regards to the Cam situation this week.

Don't hold me to this (because I can't pin it down definitively), but I believe that -- unless one was recruiting for LIV (Phil) or resigned one's PGA Tour membership (DJ, Kevin Na, et al.) -- the PGA Tour suspension does not kick-in until a player actually hits a shot-in-competition in a LIV event. So, for example, Bubba Watson has announced for LIV, and may well have signed, but has not been suspended yet because, due to injury, he has not yet hit a shot in a LIV event.

And that is having adverse downstream consequences for guys like Chris Naegel and others. See https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/p...tson-situation.

[dudog84]

Don't hold me to this (because I can't pin it down definitively), but I believe that -- unless one was recruiting for LIV (Phil) or resigned one's PGA Tour membership (DJ, Kevin Na, et al.) -- the PGA Tour suspension does not kick-in until a player actually hits a shot-in-competition in a LIV event. So, for example, Bubba Watson has announced for LIV, and may well have signed, but has not been suspended yet because, due to injury, he has not yet hit a shot in a LIV event.

And that is having adverse downstream consequences for guys like Chris Naegel and others. See https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/p...tson-situation.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Kinda. As you said, can't pin it down, probably because it's coming from Monday Q Info, whoever that is. I mean, even people on Bleacher Report give you their real name.

That said, he is a Storyteller for Firepit Collective.

[mkirsh]

Don't hold me to this (because I can't pin it down definitively), but I believe that -- unless one was recruiting for LIV (Phil) or resigned one's PGA Tour membership (DJ, Kevin Na, et al.) -- the PGA Tour suspension does not kick-in until a player actually hits a shot-in-competition in a LIV event. So, for example, Bubba Watson has announced for LIV, and may well have signed, but has not been suspended yet because, due to injury, he has not yet hit a shot in a LIV event.

And that is having adverse downstream consequences for guys like Chris Naegel and others. See https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/p...tson-situation.

I believe the rule the LIV players have broken is playing in a non Tour event without a release. I don't think the Tour has anything in their bylaws preventing players from signing with another league, but may have a "conduct detrimental to the Tour" clause that they used to suspend Mickelson. All just speculation on my part though. So they are in a bind with Cam and Bubba, particularly if Cam has just agreed in principle but not officially signed.

[Tripping William]

I believe the rule the LIV players have broken is playing in a non Tour event without a release. I don't think the Tour has anything in their bylaws preventing players from signing with another league, but may have a "conduct detrimental to the Tour" clause that they used to suspend Mickelson. All just speculation on my part though. So they are in a bind with Cam and Bubba, particularly if Cam has just agreed in principle but not officially signed.

Sounds right to me. I have seen rumblings on social media (maybe even from Shane Ryan, who I understand pressed Cam Smith pretty hard yesterday during the presser) that Smith still intends to play in the President's Cup, which is September 24-25 (meaning *after* two upcoming LIV events in Boston and Chicago). Guess we'll see how that plays out.

[Tripping William]

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Kinda. As you said, can't pin it down, probably because it's coming from Monday Q Info, whoever that is. I mean, even people on Bleacher Report give you their real name.

That said, he is a Storyteller for Firepit Collective.

Must be something to it. Bubba claims to have resigned from the PGA Tour:

https://twitter.com/bubbawatson/stat...yOlTcX94VnHWpQ

[Tripping William]

Update on how/why Cam Smith is playing in the FedEx Cup without suspension. Tl; dr: It’s as we collectively surmised.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/cam...fedex-cup-2022

[dudog84]

Z wins his first PGA tournament after several 2nd place finishes over the last 2 years and vaults to the top of the FedEx Cup!

Congrats Z!

And for those not following the Dukie golf thread on the EK board, Alex Smalley squeaks into the BMW Championship this week at #69. He'll likely need a top-3 finish to make it to the Tour Championship. Go Alex!

[75Crazie]

Z's tee shot on the par 3 that ended the playoff has to be seen to be believed. I have never seen a golf ball hit the top of a stone wall, bounce four or five times and come to rest on that same wall top. Not that it helped him; the ball was unplayable inside a hazard and he had to go back to the drop zone anyway. But Straka, hitting second, hit the same stone wall (with a wide open green to hit to), and then Z outplayed him from the drop zone.

What with the two scintillating Premier League games today and this three-hole playoff with plenty of give-and-take, today was a good day for sports vegging in front of the TV.

[dudog84]

I read an interview with former PGA Tour Commissioner Deane Beman this morning that the PGA Tour has given more to charities than all other sports leagues combined. It was in an actual newspaper (zounds!), so you can look it up if you want. How much do you think the Saudis and their players are going to give away?

The PGA Tour has no reason to answer to any of these guys.

[rsvman]

The PGA calls itself a non-profit organization, presumably for tax purposes.
Do you know what percentage of their take they spend on charity? Do you know how much money their governing officials are making?

[dudog84]

The PGA calls itself a non-profit organization, presumably for tax purposes.
Do you know what percentage of their take they spend on charity? Do you know how much money their governing officials are making?

No, but that's why I said people could look it up if they wanted. That they give more than all other leagues COMBINED tells me everything (edit: well, most everything ) I need to know. I'm pretty sure their officials don't make anywhere near what Goodell makes, and I think NFL players are "used" more than golfers are.

[sagegrouse]

I read an interview with former PGA Tour Commissioner Deane Beman this morning that the PGA Tour has given more to charities than all other sports leagues combined. It was in an actual newspaper (zounds!), so you can look it up if you want. How much do you think the Saudis and their players are going to give away?

The PGA Tour has no reason to answer to any of these guys.

The PGA calls itself a non-profit organization, presumably for tax purposes.
Do you know what percentage of their take they spend on charity? Do you know how much money their governing officials are making?

When I had clients at a large telecom provider about 20 years ago, the execs claimed that every dime collected at its sponsored PGA tournament was given to charity. That the company underwrote the expenses of the tournament, including the prize money. Charitable contributions include the tickets sold and the TV rights, but I am not sure about concessions and merch -- perhaps the percentage paid by the vendors was also donated to charity.

[DukeDude]

The PGA calls itself a non-profit organization, presumably for tax purposes.
Do you know what percentage of their take they spend on charity? Do you know how much money their governing officials are making?

This week's tournament was called the FedEx St. Jude Championship. St. Jude is a children's hospital and not a golf course, city, or co-sponsor. Throwing stones at the charitability of the PGA tour in support of the LIV tour is a non-starter.

[rsvman]

This week's tournament was called the FedEx St. Jude Championship. St. Jude is a children's hospital and not a golf course, city, or co-sponsor. Throwing stones at the charitability of the PGA tour in support of the LIV tour is a non-starter.

Not trying to do that at all. Just asking that people take a realistic view of the PGA tour. In 2019 they reportedly took in $1.5 Billion (yes, billion with a b). They profited $200-250 Million from 2016-2019 and skirted $80 million in taxes by their 'non-profit' status. Monahan is said to have made over $14 million in 2020, even after temporarily 'giving up his salary' in solidarity for the economic trouble the pandemic was causing.

Big sport is big business, period. And yes, it's wonderful that they contribute a lot of money to charities. I applaud them for that. They pay most of their employees rather modestly and definitely do a lot of good in the world.

I am and have been a fan of the PGA Tour for years. I love the PGA tour. I am neither disparaging the PGA tour nor supporting the LIV tour. Just trying to have a rational discussion.

[CameronDuke]

I’m hearing tomorrow’s PGA Tour player meeting regarding LIV is going to be a banger. Supposedly everything is on the table, from major championship boycotts to Monahan’s future to a larger compromise. And Tiger M.F. Woods is expected to fly in to provide counsel/bully/cajole.

@AlanShipnuck official Twitter account

[Phredd3]

Just asking that people take a realistic view of the PGA tour. In 2019 they reportedly took in $1.5 Billion (yes, billion with a b). They profited $200-250 Million from 2016-2019 and skirted $80 million in taxes by their 'non-profit' status.

If they "profited" $200-$250 million, they would lose their non-profit status. I realize there are things you can do with your money to avoid booking a profit, but the word you chose simply cannot be true. Can you provide a citation for the numbers you used that explains where the money went? I'm sure whatever source it was didn't say "profit", so I'm curious what they did say, exactly.

[cato]

If they "profited" $200-$250 million, they would lose their non-profit status. I realize there are things you can do with your money to avoid booking a profit, but the word you chose simply cannot be true. Can you provide a citation for the numbers you used that explains where the money went? I'm sure whatever source it was didn't say "profit", so I'm curious what they did say, exactly.

Are you sure? The PGA Tour is not a 501(c)(3) — it is a different type of non-profit. I do not know the applicable rules governing sports associations, except online sources do refer to “profits”: https://insidesources.com/as-pga-execs-collect-millions-critics-question-its-non-profit-status/

[Phredd3]

Are you sure? The PGA Tour is not a 501(c)(3) — it is a different type of non-profit. I do not know the applicable rules governing sports associations, except online sources do refer to “profits”: https://insidesources.com/as-pga-exe...profit-status/

No, I wasn't sure, and after further reading, it appears you are correct - revenues can exceed expenses. However, they must obey the restriction that "no part of the net earnings inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual." Obviously, PGA organizational salaries (which count as expenses), can be as high as the PGA decides to set them, and indeed, it appears that the top 25 highest-paid PGA employees are paid more than a lot of members of the Tour. Interestingly, 503(c)(6) organizations explicitly include sports organizations for the purpose of organizing competitions and sponsorships. It isn't clear to me what else the PGA can do with its profits.

So, yes, I stuck my foot in it, but at least I learned something.

[CameronDuke]

The BMW Championship will head to St. Louis in 2026 at Bellerive Country Club. That is a great track. I got to attend the 2018 PGA Championship there. Beautiful course and part of the country.

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/golf...d17a70fc7.html

[rasputin]

The BMW Championship will head to St. Louis in 2026 at Bellerive Country Club. That is a great track. I got to attend the 2018 PGA Championship there. Beautiful course and part of the country.

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/golf...d17a70fc7.html

I live in St. Louis, and was also at the 2018 PGA, and the 1992 event as well. That's great news. I think we have a President's Cup out there somewhere in the future too.