2021-2022 PGA Tour Season

[Tripping William]

LIV golf: Just like the Ryder Cup.

https://twitter.com/shaneryanhere/st...HN3ZM1f-A1Yn6A

What’s next? Putin Tour just like the President’s Cup?

[dudog84]

You are entitled to your opinion, certainly, but I took the liberty of looking at the top 5 guys on the LIV tour leaderboard, and picked 3 of the most prominent, and I did the same with this week's PGA tournament (only I had to go to 8 in order to find anybody that had any kind of significant record on the PGA tour).

The LIV leaderboard guys look like this: Player A has 28 professional wins, a Masters championship, one US Open Championship and one runner-up finish, 2 runner-up finishes in the PGA championship. He was player of the year on the PGA tour twice. Player B has 15 professional wins, second in the Masters in 2019, two PGA championships and runner-up twice, two US Open championships, and tied for 4th at the Open Championship. He was also PGA Player of the Year twice. Player C was the 5th player ever to be the NCAA Division 1 medalist and win the US Amateur in the same year, has 10 tour wins, won the US Open in 2020, and finished tied for 4th in the PGA in 2020. He is also only the third player in history to be medalist in the NCAA Division 1 tournament, win the US Amateur, and win the US Open (the other two guys you may have heard of: Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods).

The PGA leaderboard looks like this: Player A has one professional win, tied for 60th at the PGA championship in 2019, and tied for 40th in the US Open Championship in 2021. Player B has one professional win, T17 in the Masters, T13 at the PGA, T54 at the US Open, and T12 at the Open Championship twice. Player C has 3 professional wins, T27 at the Masters, T55th in the PGA Championship, and T53 at the US Open. (Numbers after the names of the majors represent each players BEST finish at said championships.)


To sum it up, the LIV leaderboard's 3 guys have 53 wins, 7 major championships, 4 runner-up finishes in major championships, and 4 player of the year wins. The PGA leaderboard this week has 5 total wins, no majors. Highest finish at any major championship has been 12th.


Note that these accomplishments are not ancient history, for anybody who was going to post Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, and Gary Player, for example. One of the three players mentioned was in contention at the PGA championship just last month.


So, like I said, you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it is fair to say that my statement was "absolutely, demonstrably false." I get that people hate the LIV Tour, hate the Saudis, hate the players, even, for leaving the PGA to chase after big money. I really do. I don't care for the idea, either. I would be happier if there was no such thing as the LIV Tour. But, again, my statement about the leaderboard this week was not "demonstrably false" at all.

I, for one, know the difference between fact and opinion. You’re a doctor, so you’re supposed to have a background in science, so you should know better than to cherry-pick data.

First, your claim that the John Deere is “a typical, non-major PGA tour stop” is false. Last year, it had the poorest pay-out of any tournament that was not up against a superior tournament (e.g. a major) on the same weekend.

The reason: all the best golfers are already in England preparing for the Scottish Open and the British Open. By FedEx Cup points, our own Alex Smalley is one of the top ten golfers at the John Deere (he is my favorite golfer, but he’s nowhere near there yet). You cannot seriously say the John Deere is typical, it is clearly bottom of the barrel (though I’d still play it in a heartbeat ).

So let’s look at a real typical PGA Tour stop, and we need go no farther/further than last week’s Travelers. In the field were Scottie Scheffler, Rory McIlroy, Sam Burns, Patrick Cantlay, Xander Schauffle (and I’m sure others), all of whom are playing superior golf to anyone on the LIV Tour.

I don’t want to hear about guys who are clearly backsliding. The OWGR is the best objective measurement of the golfers, because it doesn’t care what somebody did several years ago. Quality of competition and more recent results are given greater weight. Obviously you’re pointing out DJ and Koepka, I don’t know who the 3rd guy is. After a hot 2020, DJ hasn’t won on the Tour in the past 20 months. A year ago, he was ranked #2. Now he’s #17 and falling like a rock (I know something about rocks). After an incredible 2-year run, Koepka hasn’t won a major since 2019. He’s had 1 win in the last 3 years. A year ago he was ranked #7, now he’s #19.

Two of LIV’s other big names, DeChambeau and Reed have fallen from #6 to #31 and #9 to #39 respectively in the past year. I’m not going to research further, but them’s the facts.

So I’ll say again: Absolutely……demonstrably…….false.

[rsvman]

Cantlay has been struggling off and on. Dechambeau had a fairly major wrist injury. Reed and Koepka are competitive with PGA talent. The Ryder Cup captain was criticized by many for not putting Kevin Na on the team last time it was played.
Of course there is better talent on the PGA tour. For one thing there are a lot more players. I was trying to fight back against the idea that there were no good players on the LIV tour, which is a fantasy made up by people who hate the LIV tour and would hate it even if Scheffler and Schauffele were playing.

I will meet you in the middle. The PGA tour obviously has the bulk of the world's talent. But the LIV tour is not comprised completely of worthless or washed-up players.

[arnie]

Now add Paul Casey, 26th in the world. I’m not a fan of LIV either, but suspect other Top 50 world players will join. This isn’t over if the Saudis care to pour billions into it.

[Tripping William]

Now add Paul Casey, 26th in the world. I’m not a fan of LIV either, but suspect other Top 50 world players will join. This isn’t over if the Saudis care to pour billions into it.

Adding new talent all the time. Just methodically dismembering their competition …… 😳

[dudog84]

Now add Paul Casey, 26th in the world. I’m not a fan of LIV either, but suspect other Top 50 world players will join. This isn’t over if the Saudis care to pour billions into it.

I understand he's got a good ranking, but he hasn't played in months. He's got a back injury and he's going to be 45 in a couple of weeks. I don't need to be Nostradamus to see his future on the PGA Tour.

Look, any of these guys can leave if they want to, it's their careers/lives. And it's crazy money. I'm not interested in telling them what to do with their lives any more than I want their advice on mine. But until LIV starts poaching guys in their primes, it is nothing more than exhibitions.

[rsvman]

I understand he's got a good ranking, but he hasn't played in months. He's got a back injury and he's going to be 45 in a couple of weeks. I don't need to be Nostradamus to see his future on the PGA Tour.

Look, any of these guys can leave if they want to, it's their careers/lives. And it's crazy money. I'm not interested in telling them what to do with their lives any more than I want their advice on mine. But until LIV starts poaching guys in their primes, it is nothing more than exhibitions.

Two points:

1) Everybody uses the word "exhibition" as if it is a bad thing. Exhibitions are not inherently bad. They exhibit the Mona Lisa at the Louvre, for example. The last movie that you really, really enjoyed was an exhibition. Penn and Teller exhibit their magic talent in Las Vegas.

2) All sporting events are exhibitions. Some of them are better exhibitions than others, to be sure. For example, I would much prefer to have a court-side ticket to the next Duke-UNC game in Cameron than a ticket to the next home basketball game of the William and Mary team. But both events are exhibitions.


Is Paul Casey, coming off a back injury and almost 45 years old, likely to put on a show that is superior to what you would get from Scottie Scheffler or Will Zalatoris or Patrick Cantlay or Xander Schauffele? Almost certainly not. But it might still not be a horrible exhibition, and there are people out there who might think that such an exhibition is entertaining.

[arnie]

I understand he's got a good ranking, but he hasn't played in months. He's got a back injury and he's going to be 45 in a couple of weeks. I don't need to be Nostradamus to see his future on the PGA Tour.

Look, any of these guys can leave if they want to, it's their careers/lives. And it's crazy money. I'm not interested in telling them what to do with their lives any more than I want their advice on mine. But until LIV starts poaching guys in their primes, it is nothing more than exhibitions.

So Koepka, DeChambeau and Dustin Johnson are not in their prime?? Some of your inferences are outlandish.😡

And we probably have the same feelings about LIV.

[cato]

So Koepka, DeChambeau and Dustin Johnson are not in their prime?? Some of your inferences are outlandish.😡

And we probably have the same feelings about LIV.

I agree that some of the rhetoric is a little overboard, but none of those three are on the rise and it is very likely that we will look back and see that they all were past their prime when they cashed out and joined LIV.

[dudog84]

So Koepka, DeChambeau and Dustin Johnson are not in their prime?? Some of your inferences are outlandish.��

And we probably have the same feelings about LIV.

For pete’s sake, am I the only scientist around here? Data is data, facts are facts.

I couldn’t care less if someone has a big name if they’re not playing good golf. I couldn’t pick Sam Burns out of a lineup. But he’s won 3 times this season and has 5 other top-5s. Not a single “big” name on LIV can tie his shoelaces right now.

Patrick Cantlay was dissed a few posts back as “struggling”. He only won the Tour Championship and FedExCup last year, and is the reigning Player of the Year. He has a win and 5 other top-5s this season. Would that any of us were to struggle so badly in our profession.

I already detailed DJ and Koepka above. And I showed how far DeChambeau has fallen in the rankings. Do you know what his best finish is this season? T25!!!!!!!!!!! More missed cuts than made. Considering his game, he may never come back from injury.

Could these “big” names hit the range, get their game back, and play up to their past glory again? Possibly. But golf history is littered with guys that lost it and never got it back long before age caught up to them. And why bother putting in the work when the Saudis are throwing money at you just for showing up.

I stand by my "outlandish" statements.

[mkirsh]

So Koepka, DeChambeau and Dustin Johnson are not in their prime?? Some of your inferences are outlandish.😡

And we probably have the same feelings about LIV.

DJ and Brooks reached world #1, and Bryson reached #4. The are now ranked #17, 20, and 32 and falling. So while they may be in what is traditionally considered "prime" golf years according to age, many believe that their best golf is behind them, particularly due to injuries for BK and BD, and from seeming lack of interest from DJ. Could they regain form and win majors? Yes but it seems unlikely based on current play. I don't think the comments are outlandish.

[dudog84]

Ian Poulter, distinguished LIV golfer, sued to get into The Scottish Open. He's +8, T151.

[Tripping William]

“Virtue signaling” and “invective spouting” from the R&A.

ACEAB254-E94C-452E-A8D0-2A06FB23DB14.jpg

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

“Virtue signaling” and “invective spouting” from the R&A.

ACEAB254-E94C-452E-A8D0-2A06FB23DB14.jpg

If I never hear the term "virtue signalling" again, I'll be perfectly happy, thanks.

[Tripping William]

If I never hear the term "virtue signalling" again, I'll be perfectly happy, thanks.

‘Twas meant sarcastically. Edited to add emoji to clarify that.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

‘Twas meant sarcastically. Edited to add emoji to clarify that.

Ah, thanks. Despite that, I wish the term would join the scrap heap.

[Skydog]

Ah, thanks. Despite that, I wish the term would join the scrap heap.

Agree. On social media it has become a nefarious maneuver to turn any person/organization taking a moral stance into someone to be ridiculed. Of course occasionally "virtue signaling" is a valid criticism, like throwing up a Ukrainian flag on your Twitter only because it is the cool thing to do. And sometimes there are legitimate counterarguments against stances that appear virtuous at first but don't stand up to further scrutiny. But most often the phrase is just a form of name calling to make sure no good deed/sentiment goes unpunished. (To be clear I'm not referring to the post above at all - just talking about the use of the term on social media in general.)

[CameronDuke]

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id...raeme-mcdowell

Mastercard has paused its endorsement deals with LIV golf tour members Ian Poulter and Graeme McDowell, the company told ESPN.

Poulter has had a contract with the global company since 2009 and McDowell has had one since 2011, but because of their association with the controversial tour and suspension from the PGA Tour, Mastercard has put those contracts on pause.

Rocket Mortgage recently announced it was suspending its relationship with Bryson DeChambeau, RBC cut ties with Dustin Johnson and McDowell, and Phil Mickelson lost sponsorships from WorkDay, KPMG and Amstel.

Some companies have taken a hard stance on the tour, while others have had no comment or made no decision on their sponsorships with current players. Michelob Ultra and Nike have maintained their contracts with LIV player Brooks Koepka.

[rsvman]

Rumor is that 2021 Masters champion Hideki Matsuyama may be the next player to jump from the PGA to the LIV tour.

[CameronDuke]

Welcome to the final degenerate gambler’s event week of the year. The 150th Open Championship at the home of golf, The Old Course at St. Andrews, Scotland.