Is this the year Notre Dame starts thinking about joining a conference?

[fuqua1997]

Sure, I know how ND clings to their independence like polyester polo in the Keys. But is there any doubt a one-loss conference champion ND, even in a down year ACC, would be in the playoffs?

Alumni want championships. A conference championship is better than none at all, and ND hasn’t gotten a national championship in over 30 years (and has only played for one once in the interim - where they got crushed).

More importantly, players want to play for championships. Recruiting has got to get tougher every year. When’s the last time they had a consensus top-5 class? Seems they’re always around 10-15, which ain’t gonna get it done.

And then look at their schedule. Not much to get excited about when the best team you play is Cincinnati (and that’s because Cincy was great this year, otherwise their schedule would have been by far the worst of any marquee team). Wisconsin was the only other ranked team they played, and the Badgers ended the season unranked. How long will NBC pay for a bunch of stinky games?

Top it off with the coach leaving for another team. ND used to be one of the top couple of jobs in the country, this was unthinkable in the past.

Yeah, I know, probably not gonna happen. But it’s never good to live in the past. They have not been competitive against the other elite programs for years. Just wondering if the alumni are getting restless.

Players play for scholarships and National Championships more than conference championships. Notre Dame just isn’t good enough in basketball or football to win Nattys, despite all of their hype, year after year.

[SupaDave]

Players play for scholarships and National Championships more than conference championships. Notre Dame just isn’t good enough in basketball or football to win Nattys, despite all of their hype, year after year.

Wait - are we still talking about the school who just hired an electric young head coach that ended the season as the #5 team in the nation with 11 National Championships and 11 unclaimed National Championships that resides in the top three of most wins in NCAA history?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Players play for scholarships and National Championships more than conference championships. Notre Dame just isn’t good enough in basketball or football to win Nattys, despite all of their hype, year after year.

Wait - are we still talking about the school who just hired an electric young head coach that ended the season as the #5 team in the nation with 11 National Championships and 11 unclaimed National Championships that resides in the top three of most wins in NCAA history?

Given that Duke's 1st Basketball Championship is more recent that Notre Dame's last football one, I think that's exactly who he is talking about.
As for that #5 ranking, well, they won't be in the top 5 when the final numbers come out. And being #1 at the end is all that counts.

[dudog84]

Given that Duke's 1st Basketball Championship is more recent that Notre Dame's last football one, I think that's exactly who he is talking about.
As for that #5 ranking, well, they won't be in the top 5 when the final numbers come out. And being #1 at the end is all that counts.

Thanks for beating me to it.

Just what kind of kool-aid is Notre Dame selling? "Come to Notre Dame, remember The Gipper? We play for a national championship about once every 30 years...we don't win, we just get to play and get trounced." BTW, that one year they got to play for the national championship, all their wins were vacated.

Kids want to play in rivalries and championships. Who is Notre Dame's rival? Southern Cal? They've been less relevant than ND the past dozen years. Navy? As much as I respect our service academies, let's not get crazy. After Cincinnati, Wisconsin, and Purdue, Notre Dame did not play another team that finished the regular season with a winning record. Are Neilsen Ratings still a thing? Honestly, who is tuning in to watch these stinker games? I can't believe NBC will continue to pay out.

Notre Dame rarely plays an important game after November. Sure they've backed into the playoffs a couple of times, and gotten trounced each time. Once they lose a game, they're completely at the mercy of games outside of their control (personally, I like control). But lose one game in a conference and you'll still probably play for the title and probably punch a ticket to the playoffs.

As mentioned in another thread, every bowl game outside the playoffs has become an exhibition which the best players don't even want to bother with. This year, ND's arguably best players on either side of the ball (S and RB) bailed. Meanwhile, dozens of their peer players are playing in conference championships in December that potentially give them a shot at the brass ring.

I can see why ND wants an 8-team playoff, they're probably pushing harder than anyone for it. That will greatly increase their chances of making it every year...and I'd bet they'd lose in the 1st round 80% of the time. There's nothing like the gauntlet of conference play to prepare you for the most important game(s) of the year. Someone pointed out in another thread that the average margin in the semifinals is 21 points...we clearly don't need 8 teams to get to the 2 best.

I'll say it again, they're living in the past. and NBC is letting them get away with it. But that golden dome has lost its luster, and I just can's see NBC continuing to shell out. Conferences have become king.

[tommy]

Thanks for beating me to it.

Just what kind of kool-aid is Notre Dame selling? "Come to Notre Dame, remember The Gipper? We play for a national championship about once every 30 years...we don't win, we just get to play and get trounced." BTW, that one year they got to play for the national championship, all their wins were vacated.

Kids want to play in rivalries and championships. Who is Notre Dame's rival? Southern Cal? They've been less relevant than ND the past dozen years. Navy? As much as I respect our service academies, let's not get crazy. After Cincinnati, Wisconsin, and Purdue, Notre Dame did not play another team that finished the regular season with a winning record. Are Neilsen Ratings still a thing? Honestly, who is tuning in to watch these stinker games? I can't believe NBC will continue to pay out.

Notre Dame rarely plays an important game after November. Sure they've backed into the playoffs a couple of times, and gotten trounced each time. Once they lose a game, they're completely at the mercy of games outside of their control (personally, I like control). But lose one game in a conference and you'll still probably play for the title and probably punch a ticket to the playoffs.

All true. Of course they used to have a great rivalry game with Michigan every year, in what was must-see TV for the early part of the college football season. When they joined the ACC for football, Notre Dame used that as an excuse to chicken out of the Michigan series in favor of playing schools like Navy and Stanford every year. Lame.

[CameronBornAndBred]

But that golden dome has lost its luster, and I just can's see NBC continuing to shell out. Conferences have become king.

I don't know how often that contract is renegotiated, but I can't imagine that ND isn't the one walking to the table with extra anti-perspirant. NBC has several options, ND has one. (Renew) And as you eloquently point out, that one option is looking less valuable every year.

[quahog174]

I don't know how often that contract is renegotiated, but I can't imagine that ND isn't the one walking to the table with extra anti-perspirant. NBC has several options, ND has one. (Renew) And as you eloquently point out, that one option is looking less valuable every year.

Except that the NBC Sports Chairman, Pete Bevacqua, is a ND grad. So that helps.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Except that the NBC Sports Chairman, Pete Bevacqua, is a ND grad. So that helps.

When you are talking salary on his assumed scale, and perpetuating "the network brand", where he went to school means very little. I've got no doubt that he'd choose to keep himself looking good over his past school's football team that he didn't play for.

Edit..OH wait! He did!

He was also a walk-on punter for head football coach Lou Holtz at Notre Dame

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Bevacqua

Said point still stands.

[johnb]

Here’s a nice review of the issue.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa...21nc786brczykn

One issue that’s mentioned is their desire to maintain their rivalries with Navy, Stanford, and USC. I’d bet Lincoln Riley will get USC into the top 10 within two years, but it’s not really necessary. Those games allow ND to rotate through the DC area, the SF area, and LA in addition to the 5 ACC games and a sprinkling of other games. They have a good schedule for the National Catholic university. As we know from basketball, alumni relations are useful, and there aren’t many ND alums near many of the ACC schools. An ACC sked doesn’t necessarily improve alumni relations.

That NBC contract does need renewal in a few years. That’s where the money is.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Wait - are we still talking about the school who just hired an electric young head coach that ended the season as the #5 team in the nation with 11 National Championships and 11 unclaimed National Championships that resides in the top three of most wins in NCAA history?

That electric young head coach just got shut out in the second half of a bowl game, leading to a epic collapse.

I wonder if this doesn't take a little shine off that hire going into next season.

[dukelifer]

That electric young head coach just got shut out in the second half of a bowl game, leading to a epic collapse.

I wonder if this doesn't take a little shine off that hire going into next season.

Well- if ND falters out of the gate just a bit next season- he may not be coach for long. It will be a long off season for him unfortunately.

[Acymetric]

I don't know how often that contract is renegotiated, but I can't imagine that ND isn't the one walking to the table with extra anti-perspirant. NBC has several options, ND has one. (Renew) And as you eloquently point out, that one option is looking less valuable every year.

Well, they have two, right? Yes, their fans are allergic to the idea of joining a conference, but ND can still threaten it in negotiations with NBC.

[AustinDevil]

Lots of assumptions in the “maybe ND will join up” camp that I don’t think are correct. Kids don’t necessarily sign up because they want to win championships. At least as important to many of the elite recruits is being positioned for the NFL, and Notre Dame gets them very well positioned for that. Also, don’t underestimate how much school leadership is chasing money. The Twerps didn’t go to the B1G because they thought they could compete for championships. OU and especially Texas know that championships are not going to be easier to come by in the $EC.

[dudog84]

That electric young head coach just got shut out in the second half of a bowl game, leading to a epic collapse.

I wonder if this doesn't take a little shine off that hire going into next season.

Ah yes, memories. I remember when Gerry Faust, Bob Davie, and Tyrone Willingham were electric young coaches. Though that's still a better record of hiring than Florida lately.

[dudog84]

Lots of assumptions in the “maybe ND will join up” camp that I don’t think are correct. Kids don’t necessarily sign up because they want to win championships. At least as important to many of the elite recruits is being positioned for the NFL, and Notre Dame gets them very well positioned for that. Also, don’t underestimate how much school leadership is chasing money. The Twerps didn’t go to the B1G because they thought they could compete for championships. OU and especially Texas know that championships are not going to be easier to come by in the $EC.

Notre Dame has had 1 1st-round draft choice in the last 3 years...the same as Duke.

And I'll go back to a point in my OP: Is there any doubt that a 1-loss ACC Champion Notre Dame would have been in this year's playoffs?

[OldPhiKap]

Notre Dame has had 1 1st-round draft choice in the last 3 years...the same as Duke.

And I'll go back to a point in my OP: Is there any doubt that a 1-loss ACC Champion Notre Dame would have been in this year's playoffs?

ProbBly. But if they expand the playoffs to eight teams, that fixes ND’s problem for them.

[budwom]

Except that the NBC Sports Chairman, Pete Bevacqua, is a ND grad. So that helps.

and more importantly, people keep watching so advertisers keep paying. I agree that their glory is largely in the past, but fans are fans and as long as they keep watching (and they have) NBC will keep paying. I see no sign whatsoever that NBC doesn't like this deal with ND.

[YmoBeThere]

As a side note, more people watched the AAC title game compared to the ACC title game.

[uh_no]

and more importantly, people keep watching so advertisers keep paying. I agree that their glory is largely in the past, but fans are fans and as long as they keep watching (and they have) NBC will keep paying. I see no sign whatsoever that NBC doesn't like this deal with ND.

ND was in the playoffs last year, and a sniff out of it this year. With the inevitable expansion coming, I'm not sure why they should be clamoring for a change...They've finished in the top 12 each of the past 5 years. As always, with the expansion, they'll get pretty much exactly what they want (as they did with the big east, and are currently doing with the ACC). If they wanted more money, the ACC would not be their destination.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

That electric young head coach just got shut out in the second half of a bowl game, leading to a epic collapse.

I wonder if this doesn't take a little shine off that hire going into next season.

Sample size of one but I was texting with a good friend who is an ND alum and big fan at halftime and again after the game. His take after the game was that bowls don’t matter, they were missing two of their best players, he is excited for next year.

In addition to trying to convince recruits that they will get to the NFL, ND has been pitching the brotherhood idea long before Duke - play for the Irish and you will be set for life, whether in football or something else. I don’t know if this plays with the truly elite players anymore but it definitely helps.