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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    I thought the races at Fairgrounds were great. Lots of high quality and high priced horse flesh. I didnít win any money. What else is new. I am trying to figure out trainer angles. So the TVg guy called it with the Pletcher horse Momentus saying Pletcher didnít ship him from Florida just for ride. He was right. So then how to look at Brad Coxís decision to run Turnerloose on the dirt, after only racing 4 times on the grass. Just guessing what she might do, or actually thinking she could win. I had seen this horse win at KyDowns on the grass. She was great that day. But, she was coming off two straight losses. I looked at her dirt works which are pretty ordinary. I love her name, a play on ďTurn Her Loose.Ē And then I passed. She won and paid a gazillion. She costs $50k and has now won $350k. A very good investment. Her time was only fair, but she doesnít care and neither do her owners and jockey. Or for that matter anyone who bet her. DevilHorse does her pedigree say dirt or turf?


    The maiden races were competitive with really expensive and well bred horses. TVG compared them to Saratoga type maiden races.

    It seemed every other race was won by a long shot. So all in all the best race day of the year, so far.
    Turnerloose's pedigree looks like 'dirt' to me.. well, you know what I mean.. not turf close up. But it isn't that easy to tell sometimes. Nyquist is the sire, but he never ran on the turf, so you don't know if he would have loved the turf or not. But on closer inspection, you can see the suggestion of turf. Nyquist is 5x5 to Northern Dancer, who is a dynamite turf sire. Also, Nyquist is out of the first crop of Uncle Mo, who has sired some top quality turf horses (last year's turf sprinter Golden Pal for example). Secretariat is in the pedigree too and he can sire anything and owned a turf world record. On the damside, Turnerloose has a double Secretariat, and Northern Dancer. So there is turf cred there too. This horse could be either for sure, but her kryptonite might be the mud.

    The maiden races were really good. Pedigrees and high prices and homebreds out of great mares. And even they mostly all ran well. These horses may benefit from the extra 6 months of maturity that they were spared not running at Saratoga/Del Mar.

    There may always be something to the 'bounce' theory of handicapping. Of course, Pappacap would apply for that. We'll see what the comments and equipment changes are for Slow Down Andy.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  2. #62

    Mandaloun Wins 2021 KYD; Baffert Given 90 Days (Out for this year's Triple Crown

    Medina Spirit has been taken down from last year's Kentucky Derby win and Mandaloun, trained by Brad Cox, has been declared the winner.
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ucky_Derby_123

    This is the final (is anything really final in this business? Except for those holding betting tickets) recommendation of the Kentucky stewards who were holding that inquiry a week ago. Please read the above link for more details.

    Not sure if this mean the 2 year banishment is now reduced to approximately a year (he has already served 9 months essentially).

    Baffert still has some of the most promising 3YO colts, still without any KYD points. This includes Newgrange who is supposed to race this weekend at Oaklawn Park. What is an owner to do?

    Medina Spirit could not be reached for comment (sniff).

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  3. #63

    International Route to the KYD

    Nothing says unlikely like a Japanese potential entrant to the KYD, picking up KYD points in the Hyacinth. He is Combustion, who won the mile race and is by miler sire Discreet Cat. He is owned by Godolphin, so they have the money to bring him over, but with that pedigree, I'm not sure it is worth it. Let's see how he does in the other KYD points races in Japan.
    https://youtu.be/_GIMPc87_lc

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Medina Spirit has been taken down from last year's Kentucky Derby win and Mandaloun, trained by Brad Cox, has been declared the winner.
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ucky_Derby_123

    This is the final (is anything really final in this business? Except for those holding betting tickets) recommendation of the Kentucky stewards who were holding that inquiry a week ago. Please read the above link for more details.

    Not sure if this mean the 2 year banishment is now reduced to approximately a year (he has already served 9 months essentially).

    Baffert still has some of the most promising 3YO colts, still without any KYD points. This includes Newgrange who is supposed to race this weekend at Oaklawn Park. What is an owner to do?

    Medina Spirit could not be reached for comment (sniff).

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Your last comment cracks me up!

    According to the Courier Journal, CD has still banned Baffert for two years. It also mentions NYRA is suing to ban him. Iím not sure where other trainers stand, but Dale Romans says it would be a tragedy for Churchill to let him run in the Derby. Maybe itís just professional jealousy or maybe they are sick of him cheating. Once again according to CJ. most of his owners are sticking with him. As the article points out he has won them a lot of money and more importantly the prestige of winning big races.

    An equine lawyer outlines a strategy to enter your horse for the Derby, when his entry is denied, sue and ask for an injunction to let him run. He argues it would be too late to get a ruling so the court might let your horse run. I would argue this would be a risky strategy. If only the Racing Commission ruling was effective it might be a winner. Churchill argues as a private corporation, and the condition book clearly says Churchill is the ultimate arbiter of who starts, it alone has the final say. I would not want to bet my Derby horseís starting on that lawsuit, particularly in Louisville where the Derby is the most important event of the year. Maybe that works in California, but I would give it odds of 50 to 1 in Kentucky.

    The next month will be interesting to see if the owners stand firm or bolt!

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    Your last comment cracks me up!

    According to the Courier Journal, CD has still banned Baffert for two years. It also mentions NYRA is suing to ban him. I’m not sure where other trainers stand, but Dale Romans says it would be a tragedy for Churchill to let him run in the Derby. Maybe it’s just professional jealousy or maybe they are sick of him cheating. Once again according to CJ. most of his owners are sticking with him. As the article points out he has won them a lot of money and more importantly the prestige of winning big races.

    An equine lawyer outlines a strategy to enter your horse for the Derby, when his entry is denied, sue and ask for an injunction to let him run. He argues it would be too late to get a ruling so the court might let your horse run. I would argue this would be a risky strategy. If only the Racing Commission ruling was effective it might be a winner. Churchill argues as a private corporation, and the condition book clearly says Churchill is the ultimate arbiter of who starts, it alone has the final say. I would not want to bet my Derby horse’s starting on that lawsuit, particularly in Louisville where the Derby is the most important event of the year. Maybe that works in California, but I would give it odds of 50 to 1 in Kentucky.

    The next month will be interesting to see if the owners stand firm or bolt!
    Reading through the various articles, it appears that Churchill Downs is the entity that banned Baffert. They are different than the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission (KHRC) who held the hearing and assigned the 90 days suspension (which will be appealed and may yet be served long after the 2 year suspension is done - ironic). Everyone gets a piece of Baffert as they pile on.

    If this all sounds confusing.. Churchill Downs is a track, owned by an entity that runs a number of tracks in several states (Churchill Downs Incorporated). The KHRC is a license granting entity that says where you can run races, provides the stewards (judges of races), tells you when you can run races (ever notice that Keeneland and CD never race at the same time?), grants licenses to veterinarians, and the rules under which you can run race meets for all race track in Kentucky. Both Churchill Downs and the KHRC have to allow a trainer to race for them to race. If a trainer is allowed to race in Kentucky, according to the KHRC, but the track doesn't allow the trainer on the grounds, or any of his horses for 2 years, then they can't race there. If the track is OK with the trainer, but the KHRC won't grant the trainer a license, then the trainer still can't race his horses in the state. Then there might be issues with reciprocal agreements with other states. If you are banned by an entity in New York, New Jersey usually reciprocates. There was a recent case where a trainer had a license revoked for using a banned substance, testified to a grand jury. She was unable to race in New York (Yonkers), but the owner of the Meadowlands allowed her to race because he thought she showed bravery testifying and wanted to encourage people who testified in similar circumstances, and were essentially victimized, to be encouraged to speak up. Reciprocity is not absolute. California and Maryland did not ban Baffert after the Medina Spirit incident.

    Interesting about entering horses and sueing CD. The problem is that they would have to first sue to get the KYD points because that is the criterion for getting into the KYD. Perhaps the mistake the CD is making is not re-assigning the KYD points to non-Baffert horses rather than leaving Baffert earned horse points vacant. With the existing situation, the KYD points are still out there to be claimed (pun intended).

    Also of interest, Churchill Downs Inc has contracted to buy the parent company of Colonial Downs. Based on discussions in this forum, that may not bode well for racing in Virginia.
    https://www.streetinsider.com/Corpor.../19652109.html

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Reading through the various articles, it appears that Churchill Downs is the entity that banned Baffert. They are different than the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission (KHRC) who held the hearing and assigned the 90 days suspension (which will be appealed and may yet be served long after the 2 year suspension is done - ironic). Everyone gets a piece of Baffert as they pile on.

    If this all sounds confusing.. Churchill Downs is a track, owned by an entity that runs a number of tracks in several states (Churchill Downs Incorporated). The KHRC is a license granting entity that says where you can run races, provides the stewards (judges of races), tells you when you can run races (ever notice that Keeneland and CD never race at the same time?), grants licenses to veterinarians, and the rules under which you can run race meets for all race track in Kentucky. Both Churchill Downs and the KHRC have to allow a trainer to race for them to race. If a trainer is allowed to race in Kentucky, according to the KHRC, but the track doesn't allow the trainer on the grounds, or any of his horses for 2 years, then they can't race there. If the track is OK with the trainer, but the KHRC won't grant the trainer a license, then the trainer still can't race his horses in the state. Then there might be issues with reciprocal agreements with other states. If you are banned by an entity in New York, New Jersey usually reciprocates. There was a recent case where a trainer had a license revoked for using a banned substance, testified to a grand jury. She was unable to race in New York (Yonkers), but the owner of the Meadowlands allowed her to race because he thought she showed bravery testifying and wanted to encourage people who testified in similar circumstances, and were essentially victimized, to be encouraged to speak up. Reciprocity is not absolute. California and Maryland did not ban Baffert after the Medina Spirit incident.

    Interesting about entering horses and sueing CD. The problem is that they would have to first sue to get the KYD points because that is the criterion for getting into the KYD. Perhaps the mistake the CD is making is not re-assigning the KYD points to non-Baffert horses rather than leaving Baffert earned horse points vacant. With the existing situation, the KYD points are still out there to be claimed (pun intended).

    Also of interest, Churchill Downs Inc has contracted to buy the parent company of Colonial Downs. Based on discussions in this forum, that may not bode well for racing in Virginia.
    https://www.streetinsider.com/Corpor.../19652109.html

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    I donít know the law in Virginia. Perhaps a Va. lawyer on the site will comment. In Kentucky you can only operate a casino, which can only have historical horse race machines, if the entity owns a race track and then a portion of the take has to go back into purses. Gambling, except parimutuel gambling is illegal in Kentucky under our state constitution. So in theory, historical horses race machines are still parimutuel wagering. By the way the Ky Constitution does not mention parimutuel betting. But over a hundred years ago the Court approved parimutuel wagering. Last year our Court approved historical horse race machines as a form of parimutuel wagering. Yes, itís a contorted reading of parimutuel, but hey it kept the tracks open and kept Kentucky with maybe the largest purses in the country. In the perfect world Kentucky would update (replace) its late 1800ís Constitution, but it requires a vote to do so. Instead, we pass amendments every few years. The horse racing industry wants to avoid a vote at all costs, as they are petrified the conservative churches would defeat the amendment and end horse racing in Kentucky. So the Supreme Court bowed to money pressure and gave them a work around. While I may sound critical the Court did the right thing. As a poor state the Court could hardly end one of our most famous and prosperous industries.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    I donít know the law in Virginia. Perhaps a Va. lawyer on the site will comment. In Kentucky you can only operate a casino, which can only have historical horse race machines, if the entity owns a race track and then a portion of the take has to go back into purses. Gambling, except parimutuel gambling is illegal in Kentucky under our state constitution. So in theory, historical horses race machines are still parimutuel wagering. By the way the Ky Constitution does not mention parimutuel betting. But over a hundred years ago the Court approved parimutuel wagering. Last year our Court approved historical horse race machines as a form of parimutuel wagering. Yes, itís a contorted reading of parimutuel, but hey it kept the tracks open and kept Kentucky with maybe the largest purses in the country. In the perfect world Kentucky would update (replace) its late 1800ís Constitution, but it requires a vote to do so. Instead, we pass amendments every few years. The horse racing industry wants to avoid a vote at all costs, as they are petrified the conservative churches would defeat the amendment and end horse racing in Kentucky. So the Supreme Court bowed to money pressure and gave them a work around. While I may sound critical the Court did the right thing. As a poor state the Court could hardly end one of our most famous and prosperous industries.
    I don't know what the ratio of religious conservatives to horse people is in Kentucky, but I've heard more than a couple of politicians use the catch phrase that Kentucky was the land of "Kentucky Fast Horses, Beautiful Women, Smooth Bourbon," of "Fast Horses, Champion Basketball, and Great Bourbon". But Horses is always in there. For sure, the number of people and money involved with horses in Kentucky and the green acres preserved is immense. If you shined a light on the loss of that for any vote, I wouldn't be surprised if it survived any vote.

    Here in New Jersey, gambling and horses gets the vote, and not nearly the support exists here as there is in Kentucky. And we have a huge, competing Atlantic City gaming concern here.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    I don't know what the ratio of religious conservatives to horse people is in Kentucky, but I've heard more than a couple of politicians use the catch phrase that Kentucky was the land of "Kentucky Fast Horses, Beautiful Women, Smooth Bourbon," of "Fast Horses, Champion Basketball, and Great Bourbon". But Horses is always in there. For sure, the number of people and money involved with horses in Kentucky and the green acres preserved is immense. If you shined a light on the loss of that for any vote, I wouldn't be surprised if it survived any vote.

    Here in New Jersey, gambling and horses gets the vote, and not nearly the support exists here as there is in Kentucky. And we have a huge, competing Atlantic City gaming concern here.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    I was hoping a Va. lawyer would weigh in. The fact Va. has historical horse race machines makes me think it is possible that like Kentucky, only race tracks can operate the ďcasinos.Ē I say ďcasinosĒ because unlike Atlantic City, they only have ďslots.Ē No table games or sports betting. If Va. is like Ky. then Colonial Downs will be okay. And if Churchill keeps opening more betting venues and if they have to pay out a certain percentage to purses, the horsemen will be quite happy too.

    I saw the entries are out for the 3 yo race this weekend at Oaklawn. Iím still waiting to see which owners start to bail on Baffert. It seems to me the Louisiana and Arkansas Derbys are the last chance to switch trainers and secure a Derby slot.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    I was hoping a Va. lawyer would weigh in. The fact Va. has historical horse race machines makes me think it is possible that like Kentucky, only race tracks can operate the ďcasinos.Ē I say ďcasinosĒ because unlike Atlantic City, they only have ďslots.Ē No table games or sports betting. If Va. is like Ky. then Colonial Downs will be okay. And if Churchill keeps opening more betting venues and if they have to pay out a certain percentage to purses, the horsemen will be quite happy too.

    I saw the entries are out for the 3 yo race this weekend at Oaklawn. Iím still waiting to see which owners start to bail on Baffert. It seems to me the Louisiana and Arkansas Derbys are the last chance to switch trainers and secure a Derby slot.
    Although the KYD is a prestige race, there is a lot of money to be made in so many other races. California has lots of big money races. So does Pennsylvania and Florida. Baffert is welcome in Maryland, so his horses are fresh for the Preakness too.

    Oddly, I don't consider the KYD to be a breeder's race. People with top mares seem to go to established sires rather than new ones. Once studs show ability, then they get the top mares. For new studs, brilliance (high speed) is the key. Of course, winning at classic distances helps, but lots of money is made at shorter distances. I'd guess that the 3 races in Arkansas that lead up to the KYD will accrue more money for the winner(s) than the winner's share of the KYD. And all too often, horses disappear after their KYD trail ends.

    On a horse/Duke related note:

    Who could this be?
    kinchen1.jpg
    He's been mentioned in this forum before.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    On a horse/Duke related note:

    Who could this be?
    kinchen1.jpg
    He's been mentioned in this forum before.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    All those who guessed TVG Commenter Jonathan Kinchen and his newly minted fiancee' Giovannina Solevo are correct!
    They visited Cameron Indoor Stadium recently.
    Thanks for playing.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  11. #71

    This Saturday 2/26/2022 on the KYD Trail

    This weekend on the KYD Trail there is one 3YOC race of note, at Oaklawn Park, the Rebel Stakes:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, Saturday February 26, 2022, Oaklawn Park - Race 11 , PPs ]
    The favorite will likely be the undefeated Newgrange, trained by Bob Baffert. Barber Road, Dash Attack, and Ben Diesel might have something to say if they show some improvement (which any 3YO can do).
    In this $1M race, a Baffert horse will not accrue any KYD points, but can accrue money. It may be that this horse changes trainers and attempts to pick up some points in the Arkansas Derby in an attempt to qualify later, but most owners appear to be sticking with BB.

    Also at Oaklawn Park is the filly counterpart called the Honeybee:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...7/summary.html
    [ URL above, Saturday February 26, 2022, Oaklawn Park - Race 5 , PPs ]
    Feel Like A Girl and Secret Oath look to be the best bets, with Yuugiri a close third.
    A word about this feeder into the Kentucky Oaks, it seems that although Bob Baffert has several Oaks worthy fillies, he seems to have given up the ghost on being able to run there; he has not made the sustaining payments on any of his capable fillies for the Kentucky Oaks (only $200).

    Another interesting race this weekend takes place at Gulfstream Park, where the great Letruska has been freshened:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...5/summary.html
    [ URL above, Saturday February 26, 2022, Gulfstream Park - Race 6 , PPs ]
    If Letruska is right, she wins. When we saw her last, she failed miserably in the BC Distaff. But she was stalking a very hot pace in that race. There is other early speed in here to challenge Letruska, but it isn't the quality of Letruska.

    For those of you who like expensive maidens:

    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, Saturday February 26, 2022, Santa Anita Park - Race 6 , PPs ]
    3YOF Ganadora is making her first lifetime start at a $1M pricetag. Brocade is making her 2nd start at a $750k price tag. Both are Baffert trainees.

    BTW, the $20M Saudi Cup will take place Saturday at about 12:45pm. It will be broadcast stateside on the FS2 network. I haven't found any free PPs. But here are the Post Positions. There are a lot of familiar names. Mishriff and Mandaloun are likely favorites. Art Collector and Midnight Bourbon can throw a big race now and then.
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/race/2022_Saudi_Cup#
    The Saudi Cup Undercard is on my cable system from 8am-12noon too.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Last edited by DevilHorse; 02-25-2022 at 08:13 AM.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Although the KYD is a prestige race, there is a lot of money to be made in so many other races. California has lots of big money races. So does Pennsylvania and Florida. Baffert is welcome in Maryland, so his horses are fresh for the Preakness too.

    Oddly, I don't consider the KYD to be a breeder's race. People with top mares seem to go to established sires rather than new ones. Once studs show ability, then they get the top mares. For new studs, brilliance (high speed) is the key. Of course, winning at classic distances helps, but lots of money is made at shorter distances. I'd guess that the 3 races in Arkansas that lead up to the KYD will accrue more money for the winner(s) than the winner's share of the KYD. And all too often, horses disappear after their KYD trail ends.

    On a horse/Duke related note:

    Who could this be?
    kinchen1.jpg
    He's been mentioned in this forum before.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    I understand that Baffert can still win a lot of money but it must hurt that he canít win a triple crown without racing at Churchill.

    I thought that most jurisdictions recognized suspensions from other jurisdictions. Is that no longer true? I understand he can and perhaps already has appealed his suspension so he can continue to train and race while that is pending. And the appeal could last a long time. Yet his reputation has suffered. The Derby news made the CBS nightly news. I think Baffert enjoyed the spotlight when it was positive. This has to hurt his ego. Unless he does something else to make the news, I am taking a break from all things Baffert to concentrate on the upcoming races. Getting ready to look at your links for Oaklawn. Thanks for sharing those.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    I understand that Baffert can still win a lot of money but it must hurt that he can’t win a triple crown without racing at Churchill.

    I thought that most jurisdictions recognized suspensions from other jurisdictions. Is that no longer true? I understand he can and perhaps already has appealed his suspension so he can continue to train and race while that is pending. And the appeal could last a long time. Yet his reputation has suffered. The Derby news made the CBS nightly news. I think Baffert enjoyed the spotlight when it was positive. This has to hurt his ego. Unless he does something else to make the news, I am taking a break from all things Baffert to concentrate on the upcoming races. Getting ready to look at your links for Oaklawn. Thanks for sharing those.
    Yes, Baffert sucks all of the air out of the room. He also has so many interesting horses, and has a Briswatch page with many of the Santa Anita races. So there it is.

    On your question, as far as I can tell (and the information does not seem to be readily available on the net) suspensions are multi-dimensional in their implementation, but I think we can handle it:

    Dim 1 - Who is being suspended: Jockey, Trainer, Owner - This comes into play depending on Dim 2

    Dim 2 - What entity is doing the suspending and why: As mentioned in post #65 above:
    https://forums.dukebasketballreport...47#post1454247
    there are different entities that have jurisdiction for a track that could be involved for a Trainer. The State, The Track, The Stewards (an extension of the State based on the rules). The Judges, or the Track, or the State, can suspend someone and they could have a reciprocity deal with another state that is different than one of the other entities. I imagine the New York Racing Association - NYRA (representing Saratoga, Aqueduct, and Belmont) have a shared reciprocity deal with other track entities, but they don't have to. But New York State may have a different set of reciprocities than does the NYRA. That is because New York State also has Harness Tracks (no more Quarter Horse tracks). Harness Tracks have their own deals. The Harness Tracks in New York State are owned by different entities too and have their own reciprocity concerns from each other, although they may be similar to the NYRA and each other and the State. Hopefully this wasn't confusing.

    Dim 3 - What agreements for reciprocity exists between entities: This seems to be a State by State, Entity by Entity affair. If any Entity in one state has an agreement with its counterpart in another state, then you have a reciprocity agreement. Because there is no national set of rules (like HISA for drugs) you don't have national reciprocity for riding or behavior violations. Right now, and for Baffert at CD, there are only Kentucky State Racing or CD reciprocity issues. No charges were brought up against the owners. Amazingly, Churchill Downs does not have reciprocity with Pimlico, so Medina Spirit could race in the Preakness last year, but could not in the Belmont.

    Therefore, to race (jockey, owner, trainer) you would have to have a clearance from the Track, State and any entity they have reciprocity with. Otherwise, you go somewhere else. In Binary math, it would be an AND gait for all of those entities. IRAD Ortiz got a 30 day penalty for bad riding in New York in early January, he went to Puerto Rico to ride for that month. And so it goes.

    I hope this made more sense than not. These guys may just make it up as they go along, but that's the best as I can make out.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post

    BTW, the $20M Saudi Cup will take place Saturday at about 12:45pm. It will be broadcast stateside on the FS2 network. I haven't found any free PPs. But here are the Post Positions. There are a lot of familiar names. Mishriff and Mandaloun are likely favorites. Art Collector and Midnight Bourbon can throw a big race now and then.
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/race/2022_Saudi_Cup#
    The Saudi Cup Undercard is on my cable system from 8am-12noon too.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    You didn't ask for it, but here it is anyway... Free PPs for the entire Saudi Cup Race Day card - watch FS2 tomorrow morning.
    https://static.drf.com/SaudiCupDay.pdf

    Saudi Cup, Race 8, 12:45 ET.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Yes, Baffert sucks all of the air out of the room. He also has so many interesting horses, and has a Briswatch page with many of the Santa Anita races. So there it is.

    On your question, as far as I can tell (and the information does not seem to be readily available on the net) suspensions are multi-dimensional in their implementation, but I think we can handle it:

    Dim 1 - Who is being suspended: Jockey, Trainer, Owner - This comes into play depending on Dim 2

    Dim 2 - What entity is doing the suspending and why: As mentioned in post #65 above:
    https://forums.dukebasketballreport...47#post1454247
    there are different entities that have jurisdiction for a track that could be involved for a Trainer. The State, The Track, The Stewards (an extension of the State based on the rules). The Judges, or the Track, or the State, can suspend someone and they could have a reciprocity deal with another state that is different than one of the other entities. I imagine the New York Racing Association - NYRA (representing Saratoga, Aqueduct, and Belmont) have a shared reciprocity deal with other track entities, but they don't have to. But New York State may have a different set of reciprocities than does the NYRA. That is because New York State also has Harness Tracks (no more Quarter Horse tracks). Harness Tracks have their own deals. The Harness Tracks in New York State are owned by different entities too and have their own reciprocity concerns from each other, although they may be similar to the NYRA and each other and the State. Hopefully this wasn't confusing.

    Dim 3 - What agreements for reciprocity exists between entities: This seems to be a State by State, Entity by Entity affair. If any Entity in one state has an agreement with its counterpart in another state, then you have a reciprocity agreement. Because there is no national set of rules (like HISA for drugs) you don't have national reciprocity for riding or behavior violations. Right now, and for Baffert at CD, there are only Kentucky State Racing or CD reciprocity issues. No charges were brought up against the owners. Amazingly, Churchill Downs does not have reciprocity with Pimlico, so Medina Spirit could race in the Preakness last year, but could not in the Belmont.

    Therefore, to race (jockey, owner, trainer) you would have to have a clearance from the Track, State and any entity they have reciprocity with. Otherwise, you go somewhere else. In Binary math, it would be an AND gait for all of those entities. IRAD Ortiz got a 30 day penalty for bad riding in New York in early January, he went to Puerto Rico to ride for that month. And so it goes.

    I hope this made more sense than not. These guys may just make it up as they go along, but that's the best as I can make out.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    More Baffert.. and interesting.

    Yesterday, the KHRC denied an appeal of the 90 day suspension based on the Medina Spirit disqualification in the 2021 KYD. This means that a suspension of the Baffert trainees/stable as of March 8 will occur NATIONWIDE.

    My description above of reciprocity appears to be close. Evidently the KHRC has reciprocity with all racing associations; so a suspension for one covers all. But a suspension at a track does not have reciprocity unless there is an agreement specifically with other tracks.

    Now that appeals to the horse based authorities appears to be exhausted, Baffert and his lawyers head to the courts.

    Meanwhile Newgrange races today in the Rebel and will not be able to pick up the 50 KYD points should he win. But should he win, the horse and Baffert will suck the air out of the KYD conversation.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  16. #76
    Anyone who followed my posts on the Olympic thread know my affinity for curling.
    I caught this twitter post today:
    constantini.jpg

    Stefania Constantini and her partner won the Gold Medal (medaglia d'oro) at the recently concluded Beijing Olympics in Mixed Doubles Curling

    Her partner Amos Mosaner also deserves credit, but he was horrible in the Men's team so he gets no mention.

    Great idea!

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    More Baffert.. and interesting.

    Yesterday, the KHRC denied an appeal of the 90 day suspension based on the Medina Spirit disqualification in the 2021 KYD. This means that a suspension of the Baffert trainees/stable as of March 8 will occur NATIONWIDE.

    My description above of reciprocity appears to be close. Evidently the KHRC has reciprocity with all racing associations; so a suspension for one covers all. But a suspension at a track does not have reciprocity unless there is an agreement specifically with other tracks.

    Now that appeals to the horse based authorities appears to be exhausted, Baffert and his lawyers head to the courts.

    Meanwhile Newgrange races today in the Rebel and will not be able to pick up the 50 KYD points should he win. But should he win, the horse and Baffert will suck the air out of the KYD conversation.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    I didnít see the race, but per the chart, Newgrangeís race was pretty bad. The charts donít mention any excuse so just a bad race. Baffert did win a race in Saudi today. The feature was won by the longest shot on the board. Which brings me to a theory that if you bet the longest shot in every race to win, would you win overall? Mandaloun did nothing. Was this the last race of his career? A winner of 2 Grade 1ís and never finished first. That must be some kind of record.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post

    I didnít see the race, but per the chart, Newgrangeís race was pretty bad. The charts donít mention any excuse so just a bad race. Baffert did win a race in Saudi today. The feature was won by the longest shot on the board. Which brings me to a theory that if you bet the longest shot in every race to win, would you win overall? Mandaloun did nothing. Was this the last race of his career? A winner of 2 Grade 1ís and never finished first. That must be some kind of record.
    Yes, Baffert had a good day in Saudi Arabia (or his horses did).
    Baffert's Pinehurst won the $1.5M Saudi Derby. Pinehurst is a 3YO making his 5th start. The UAE Derby does award KYD Points (in 1 month), but not the Saudi Derby; but then, Baffert was not going to accrue KYD Points anyway. There were also 4YOs in this race according to the PPs, so I don't know what to say; perhaps that was a typo as this was restricted to 3YOs.
    Baffert's Country Grammar, running for the first time in about a year, finished 2nd in the big race, which was tremendous. I think he gets (only) $3.5M for 2nd place.
    The winner, Emplem Road is by Quality Road, who is having a fantastic year as a sire. Midnight Bourbon was 3rd.

    I recall reading an article about betting the longest shot on the board. The ROI was very very negative. I don't suggest it. Although, if I had access to the data and I could put a few filters onto it, I might find a betting angle that might work.

    The commentators felt that Newgrange's effort was pretty bad. He was up stalking the pace. Of course, you never know if track at the time was too tiring since the whole front end of the race collapsed. But the horse did not distinguish himself at all.
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on

    The winner, Un Ojo (spanish for one eye) actually has only one eye. He had a rail skimming trip to get up. He is a gelding and obviously benefited from all of the lack of weight from lost organs . The Rebel got an 84 Beyer while the filly Secret Oath got a 92 Beyer!

    Watch the 4 (Un Ojo) come up the rail while the 2 (Newgrange - white saddle cloth) fade in the middle of the track:
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1497715556417519627
    Looks like a weak bunch.


    Larry
    DevilHorse

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    This weekend on the KYD Trail there is one 3YOC race of note, at Oaklawn Park, the Rebel Stakes:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, Saturday February 26, 2022, Oaklawn Park - Race 11 , PPs ]
    The favorite will likely be the undefeated Newgrange, trained by Bob Baffert. Barber Road, Dash Attack, and Ben Diesel might have something to say if they show some improvement (which any 3YO can do).
    In this $1M race, a Baffert horse will not accrue any KYD points, but can accrue money. It may be that this horse changes trainers and attempts to pick up some points in the Arkansas Derby in an attempt to qualify later, but most owners appear to be sticking with BB.

    Also at Oaklawn Park is the filly counterpart called the Honeybee:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...7/summary.html
    [ URL above, Saturday February 26, 2022, Oaklawn Park - Race 5 , PPs ]
    Feel Like A Girl and Secret Oath look to be the best bets, with Yuugiri a close third.
    A word about this feeder into the Kentucky Oaks, it seems that although Bob Baffert has several Oaks worthy fillies, he seems to have given up the ghost on being able to run there; he has not made the sustaining payments on any of his capable fillies for the Kentucky Oaks (only $200).

    Another interesting race this weekend takes place at Gulfstream Park, where the great Letruska has been freshened:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...5/summary.html
    [ URL above, Saturday February 26, 2022, Gulfstream Park - Race 6 , PPs ]
    If Letruska is right, she wins. When we saw her last, she failed miserably in the BC Distaff. But she was stalking a very hot pace in that race. There is other early speed in here to challenge Letruska, but it isn't the quality of Letruska.

    For those of you who like expensive maidens:

    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, Saturday February 26, 2022, Santa Anita Park - Race 6 , PPs ]
    3YOF Ganadora is making her first lifetime start at a $1M pricetag. Brocade is making her 2nd start at a $750k price tag. Both are Baffert trainees.

    BTW, the $20M Saudi Cup will take place Saturday at about 12:45pm. It will be broadcast stateside on the FS2 network. I haven't found any free PPs. But here are the Post Positions. There are a lot of familiar names. Mishriff and Mandaloun are likely favorites. Art Collector and Midnight Bourbon can throw a big race now and then.
    https://www.horseracingnation.com/race/2022_Saudi_Cup#
    The Saudi Cup Undercard is on my cable system from 8am-12noon too.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    I've commented about Un Ojo's win in the Rebel in another post. Nice win for that horse, but not a very fast race.

    But in the Honeybee, Secret Oath was a monster:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1497667763577311232
    Secret Oath stalked the pace, skimmed the rail, and won by 7. The winning time was much faster than that of the Rebel.
    Secret Oath is trained by D. Wayne Lukas and is sired by... Arrogate!!

    In Florida, we welcomed back a healthy Letruska to the stage:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1497657531836944385
    Letruska could have won by a mile and was practically pulled up when crossing the finish line (see the video).

    Ganadora was unleashed at Santa Anita yesterday and did not disappoint.
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    Ganadora won by an easy 6 lengths and is by the sire of the day, Quality Road.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    [QUOTE=DevilHorse;1456516]More Baffert.. and interesting.

    Yesterday, the KHRC denied an appeal of the 90 day suspension based on the Medina Spirit disqualification in the 2021 KYD. This means that a suspension of the Baffert trainees/stable as of March 8 will occur NATIONWIDE.

    My description above of reciprocity appears to be close. Evidently the KHRC has reciprocity with all racing associations; so a suspension for one covers all. But a suspension at a track does not have reciprocity unless there is an agreement specifically with other tracks.

    Now that appeals to the horse based authorities appears to be exhausted, Baffert and his lawyers head to the courts.

    Meanwhile Newgrange races today in the Rebel and will not be able to pick up the 50 KYD points should he win. But should he win, the horse and Baffert will suck the air out of the KYD conversation.

    Larry
    DevilHorse[/QUOTE


    So much for swearing off Baffert. I just read this weeks racing news in the Courier Journal. So the limit used to be 10
    picograms. Then a few years ago it was lowered to basically whatever is detectible. On the original test Medina Spirit tested at 20, then on the later split test 25. So above even the old level both times.

    The Race Commission is obviously tired of Baffert. Probably because he hasnít been truthful or that Gamine was disqualified from the Oaks a few months earlier for I believe the same drug. The Derby happened when he had supposedly retained world famous horse vets to oversee his use of legal horse drugs. Then it turned out he never hired the folks. Then he claimed it was impossible for Medina Spirit to test positive. Then, it was the excuse that it was unintentional because of the steroid cream used. Normally the sentence would be suspended while on appeal. But, not this time.

    The interesting part to me was information about the two Circuit Judges, one of whom will here the appeal. Both Judges practiced equine law before their appointments. Both have reversed the racing commission at times, but more often have upheld the suspension. As The World Turns will continue!

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