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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    When will we find out his initial stud fee?
    How about today?
    https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...-200k-in-2023/

    Flightline stud fee is $200k. Incredible for a first year, unproven, sire.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  2. #522

    Nothing Big

    No big races this weekend.

    Some prominent horses retired this week:
    Jack Christopher will stand for $45k next to his sire Munnings.
    Olympiad has been retired.

    Taiba is expected to be racing again.

    Big sale at Keeneland where mares were purchased specifically to breed to Flightline.

    Domestic Spending is still recovering well.

    Larry
    Devilhorse

  3. #523

    Very Odds And Ends - Hollywood (Sort Of) Edition

    Del Mar is having a fall meet.

    I was at a wedding 2 weeks ago in San Diego and stopped by Del Mar; it was closed.
    But the Turf really does meet the Surf :
    surfTurf1.jpg
    Ran into this guy on a traffic island:
    goldHorse1.jpg

    Did you ever watch a 1958 movie called the 7th Voyage Of Sinbad? The female lead was Kathryn Grant (Crosby). She married Bing Crosby just before the movie came out. She retired after this movie. Yesterday they ran the Kathryn Crosby Stakes at Del Mar. As you may know, Del Mar Racetrack was upgraded at the Del Mar Fairgrounds by Bing Crosby and Pat O'brien.

    There's a horse running in a maiden race at Del Mar today. His name is Dr. Venkman.. a son of Ghostzapper. Gotta love that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Venkman
    Venkman got his PhD in parapsychology; he said he got it from Faber College, but we all know there was only one ESP/Parapsychology program of note in the country back then. At Duke University! Just a couple of doors down from the Rice Diet office.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  4. #524

    Chad Brown .. Guilty

    Remember back during the summer, Chad Brown was accused of assaulting and strangling a woman who interloped into one of his liaisons, at Chad's rented house?
    Chad Brown pleads guilty to a lesser charge:
    https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...lesser-charge/

    The following was heard near the apron at Keeneland just after Flightline crossed the finish line in the BC Classic, "That Horse isn't Human!!" An incredible grasp of the obvious.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  5. #525

    Keep The Motor Running

    A few races that have some interest:

    All are races at Del Mar:

    Race 6 on Saturday is the Desi Arnaz:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, Saturday November 19, 2022; Del Mar - Race 6, PPs ]
    Nice 2YO fillies Parody and Justique butt heads in this one.

    Race 8 on Saturday is the Cary Grant:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    [ URL above, Saturday November 19, 2022; Del Mar - Race 8, PPs ]
    California statebreds usually have some nice sprinters. This race has The Chosen Vron vs. Big City Lights; BCL looks to be the favorite.

    On Sunday, it is the 2YO colts, also at Del Mar in the Bob Hope:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, Sunday November 20, 2022; Del Mar - Race 8, PPs ]
    Havnameltdown will try to hold off Newgate.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    A few races that have some interest:

    All are races at Del Mar:

    Race 6 on Saturday is the Desi Arnaz:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, Saturday November 19, 2022; Del Mar - Race 6, PPs ]
    Nice 2YO fillies Parody and Justique butt heads in this one.

    Race 8 on Saturday is the Cary Grant:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    [ URL above, Saturday November 19, 2022; Del Mar - Race 8, PPs ]
    California statebreds usually have some nice sprinters. This race has The Chosen Vron vs. Big City Lights; BCL looks to be the favorite.

    On Sunday, it is the 2YO colts, also at Del Mar in the Bob Hope:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, Sunday November 20, 2022; Del Mar - Race 8, PPs ]
    Havnameltdown will try to hold off Newgate.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Justique was just too good for this field:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1594105032886038529
    Don't you love horses that (confidently) come from 10 lengths off the next to last horse, circle the field, and win for fun? The above video is great. The move just entering the far turn is impressive. Her BC Juv Filly race was a bit of a disappointment, but Espinoza will figure out what he can/can't do with this filly and she will be tough in the KYO next year.

    The Chosen Vron is the king of the California sprinters:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1594120077879582720

    Let me add a race for today; the 4th at Del Mar is an interesting optional claimer (the new name for an allowance race - none of these horses are in for a tag):
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, November 20, 2022; Del Mar - Race 4; PPs ]
    Forbidden Kingdom tries again to regain the magic from earlier this year when he won the San Vicente and San Felipe in front running style. He is on Lasix for the first time.

    A little something for us Secretariat fans:
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1594026036924420096
    The Biggest mural of Big Red!

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Last edited by DevilHorse; 11-20-2022 at 08:19 AM.

  7. #527
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Justique was just too good for this field:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1594105032886038529
    Don't you love horses that (confidently) come from 10 lengths off the next to last horse, circle the field, and win for fun? The above video is great. The move just entering the far turn is impressive. Her BC Juv Filly race was a bit of a disappointment, but Espinoza will figure out what he can/can't do with this filly and she will be tough in the KYO next year.

    The Chosen Vron is the king of the California sprinters:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1594120077879582720

    Let me add a race for today; the 4th at Del Mar is an interesting optional claimer (the new name for an allowance race - none of these horses are in for a tag):
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, November 20, 2022; Del Mar - Race 4; PPs ]
    Forbidden Kingdom tries again to regain the magic from earlier this year when he won the San Vicente and San Felipe in front running style. He is on Lasix for the first time.

    A little something for us Secretariat fans:
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1594026036924420096
    The Biggest mural of Big Red!

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Thanks DevilHorse you always provide some fun information. The mural of Secretariat being example one. It brings back memories of Big Red moving like a machine in the Belmont to crush the field. My two most lasting memories of horse racing on television are Secretariatís Belmont and the other the horrible breakdown of the magnificent Ruffian. They represent the two extremes of horse racing at its best and worst.

  8. #528

    I Was There

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    Thanks DevilHorse you always provide some fun information. The mural of Secretariat being example one. It brings back memories of Big Red moving like a machine in the Belmont to crush the field. My two most lasting memories of horse racing on television are Secretariat’s Belmont and the other the horrible breakdown of the magnificent Ruffian. They represent the two extremes of horse racing at its best and worst.
    I remember being captivated by Secretariat; not so much about his exploits but that he was syndicated for $6.02M.

    My 2nd time to a thoroughbred track was for the Ruffian match race; my first time was for the Belmont that year (Avatar and Willie the Shoe). The Off Track Betting parlors were giving out green and white HIM and HER buttons. It was a soupy/warm day; not a seat was available that I could see (we were there early and got seats way down the stretch, up several levels at Belmont. The race was originally set up for Ruffian to race against the winners of the triple crown legs (3 different obviously), but Master Derby (Preakness) and Avatar (California horse didn't want to come east for this). Lines at the betting windows were ridiculous. I remember that there was faint thunder rumbling when Ruffian and Foolish Pleasure were on the track (not kidding, very dramatic). We couldn't believe what we were seeing when it happened on the back stretch.

    Ruffian would have creamed Foolish Pleasure had she not broken down. Her par times for the same distances were a full second faster than FP.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Justique was just too good for this field:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1594105032886038529
    On Sunday, it is the 2YO colts, also at Del Mar in the Bob Hope:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, Sunday November 20, 2022; Del Mar - Race 8, PPs ]
    Havnameltdown will try to hold off Newgate.

    Let me add a race for today; the 4th at Del Mar is an interesting optional claimer (the new name for an allowance race - none of these horses are in for a tag):
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...99/summary.htm
    [ URL above, November 20, 2022; Del Mar - Race 4; PPs ]
    Forbidden Kingdom tries again to regain the magic from earlier this year when he won the San Vicente and San Felipe in front running style. He is on Lasix for the first time.


    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Havnameltdown went to the front early and won fairly easily:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1594483956153430016
    Newgate rounded out your exacta.

    Get Her Number won that interesting optional claimer:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1594453418717782016
    Forbidden Kingdom was very good, going to the front in fast fractions, but faded to third; he will improve off this effort.

    BTW, not that anyone cares too much, but HISA was found to be unconstitutional by a Federal Court. A couple of states, like Texas, sued to make this happen. I don't know if HISA is dead or will just require a few major/minor tweaks.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  10. #530

    Down To Business!

    That rumbling you hear from over the mountain is the rustling about the 2023 Kentucky Derby.

    There have been a few, updated views of who the best horse is NOW.

    Upstream in this thread, on BC Classic Saturday there was an opening 2YO maiden race won by Arabian Knight. After all of the 2YO races the day before, the odds makers have held a Master Class of recency bias by making Arabian Knight the 10-1 favorite, as of this juncture. Arabian Knight is a son of Uncle Mo. Uncle Mo has produced classic winners Mo Donegal and Nyquist.

    Here are the latest odds from Caesar's:
    https://static.americasbestracing.ne...m9HxdtgKBfNpL_

    The 2nd Kentucky Derby Future's Pool (first after the BC) will be open on Thursday; no PPs yet.
    https://www.kentuckyderby.com/wager/...r/derby-pool-2

    The post BC KYD talk will be getting a kick start in the first weekend in December when the Remsen Stakes are run (won by Mo Donegal last year with Zandon second).

    In the mean time, this friday will be the running of the Clark Stakes. It was in the news before the BC when Rich Strike's connections announced that they were considering running in the Clark instead of the BC. Well, it seems they will be entering him for both. Only $750k purse in this one though.
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    [ URL above, Friday November 26, 2022; Churchill Downs - Race 11, PPs]
    The Rich Strike group has announced their intentions to race the KYD winner next year, all over the country. Running on Black Friday.. interesting.

    Also on Friday is the Comely for 3YO fillies at Aqueduct:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    [ URL above, Friday November 26, 2022; Aqueduct - Race 7, PPs]
    Kathleen O was a monster coming into the KYO, but faltered to a decent 5th and hasn't been seen since. If right, she is the class of this field; but is she in shape? Shug McGaughey sometimes races them into shape. Speaking of Shug, he just got a 30 day suspension from the NYRA for a drug overage. NO NOT SHUG?!


    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Last edited by DevilHorse; 11-22-2022 at 11:34 AM.

  11. #531

    KY Derby Future Pool 2 - w/PPs

    I found the PPs for the KYD Future Pool 2:

    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    [ url above, Thursday November 22, 2022; KY Derby Future - Race 2, PPs ]

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  12. #532

    Really?

    OK, so the Seabiscuit Handicap is run at Del Mar on Saturday. But I noticed that it is a turf race. I don't remember Seabiscuit being a turf horse. So I checked the PPs:
    https://twitter.com/DailyRacingForm/...698240/photo/1
    Easier to read if you copy/paste into WORD and expand. No turf races. What's up with that?

    We are seeing a number of the horses, from Breeder's Cup weekend, return to the races this week. So the stakes offerings, and quality of the participants, are much improved over the previous 2 weeks.

    Saturday is an all 2YO card at Churchill Downs; soup to nuts with maidens, turf races, and a range of stakes.
    Most of them can be found at this URL:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    Look for Saturday - November 26.

    Here are the better races for the top fillies and colts at CD:

    The Golden Road with the beautifully, oximoronically named Hoosier Philly. Race 10 for 2YO fillies.

    The Kentucky Jockey Club Stakes is Race 11, with many horses from the BC Juvenile, Breeders Futurity, or Street Sense. Curly Jack has the best figures.

    A word about the great pacer Bulldog Hanover. He will be starting in his last race before he goes to stud. Bulldog Hanover was a pretty good 3YO, but blossomed into a monster as a 4YO. He is the fastest standardbred of all time with a mile in 1:45 4/5. His streak of sub-1:47 miles (I think it was 6) is incredible and may never be matched. He has won 13 of 15 this year.
    You can find PPs for the race at Race 10 at this URL:
    https://playmeadowlands.com/wp-conte...1/mxx1126p.pdf
    Sustained excellence and a World Record marks a great horse. Unlike Flightline, Bulldog raced against the top horses in the US an Canada, every week.
    Bulldog Hanover is out of a good but not great sire (Shadow Play) and a stakes winning mare (B J's Squall).

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Last edited by DevilHorse; 11-24-2022 at 08:56 AM.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    I found the PPs for the KYD Future Pool 2:

    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    [ url above, Thursday November 22, 2022; KY Derby Future - Race 2, PPs ]

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Here is an interesting early KYD 2023 file.
    http://www.brisnet.com/wp-content/up...erby23Sire.pdf

    It is from the KYD Future Pool -2 page.
    It lists the sires of potential KYD starters, their race record PPs, followed by the list of each of their progeny that are eligible to the KYD. It is ONLY over 300 pages long.

    It may be that the Future Pool has a wager on which horse will be the sire of the KYD winner. Interesting prop bet.

    A lot of information that will amount to bubkis, but it gives you an opportunity to look for a KYD 2023 horse to follow who may not have shown on the track yet. There are lots of non-starters listed here.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  14. #534

    Essential Quality

    A treat for TheDevilMadeMeDoIt and other fans of Essential Quality:
    https://twitter.com/Brisnet/status/1466865866851692554

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post

    ...

    In the mean time, this friday will be the running of the Clark Stakes. It was in the news before the BC when Rich Strike's connections announced that they were considering running in the Clark instead of the BC. Well, it seems they will be entering him for both. Only $750k purse in this one though.
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    [ URL above, Friday November 26, 2022; Churchill Downs - Race 11, PPs]
    The Rich Strike group has announced their intentions to race the KYD winner next year, all over the country. Running on Black Friday.. interesting.

    Also on Friday is the Comely for 3YO fillies at Aqueduct:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    [ URL above, Friday November 26, 2022; Aqueduct - Race 7, PPs]
    Kathleen O was a monster coming into the KYO, but faltered to a decent 5th and hasn't been seen since. If right, she is the class of this field; but is she in shape? Shug McGaughey sometimes races them into shape. Speaking of Shug, he just got a 30 day suspension from the NYRA for a drug overage. NO NOT SHUG?!


    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Proxy was the very tough winner of the Clark Stakes:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1596278711544090625
    Rich Strike has had a long campaign and finished last! What will the aged division look like with the retirement of so many top horses?

    Sixtythreecaliber shot to the lead and won the Comely:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1596239898649845761
    Kathleen O finished second; after a long layoff it looked like she needed the race.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  16. #536
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    A treat for TheDevilMadeMeDoIt and other fans of Essential Quality:
    https://twitter.com/Brisnet/status/1466865866851692554

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Thanks DevilHorse, I did love EQ. He always tried. He was always close. Maybe Cox told Saez to keep him wide in the Ky. Derby, but I will always wonder what might have been. Now we will see who is the better sire, EQ or Flightline.

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    Thanks DevilHorse, I did love EQ. He always tried. He was always close. Maybe Cox told Saez to keep him wide in the Ky. Derby, but I will always wonder what might have been. Now we will see who is the better sire, EQ or Flightline.
    YW.

    I'm sure Flightline will have his share of great progeny, but perhaps not 2YOs (until they find what mares work with him). Tapit is an underrated broodmare sire, so we'll see what mares work with him.
    Not sure why he didn't race often or as a 2YO or early 3YO.

    EQ will definitely have some 2YO winners but probably not till later in their year; although he could sprint, he was a better distance horse.
    We'll see what kind of mares click with either.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    OK, so the Seabiscuit Handicap is run at Del Mar on Saturday. But I noticed that it is a turf race. I don't remember Seabiscuit being a turf horse. So I checked the PPs:
    https://twitter.com/DailyRacingForm/...698240/photo/1
    Easier to read if you copy/paste into WORD and expand. No turf races. What's up with that?

    We are seeing a number of the horses, from Breeder's Cup weekend, return to the races this week. So the stakes offerings, and quality of the participants, are much improved over the previous 2 weeks.

    Saturday is an all 2YO card at Churchill Downs; soup to nuts with maidens, turf races, and a range of stakes.
    Most of them can be found at this URL:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brisw...9/summary.html
    Look for Saturday - November 26.

    Here are the better races for the top fillies and colts at CD:

    The Golden Road with the beautifully, oximoronically named Hoosier Philly. Race 10 for 2YO fillies.

    The Kentucky Jockey Club Stakes is Race 11, with many horses from the BC Juvenile, Breeders Futurity, or Street Sense. Curly Jack has the best figures.

    A word about the great pacer Bulldog Hanover. He will be starting in his last race before he goes to stud. Bulldog Hanover was a pretty good 3YO, but blossomed into a monster as a 4YO. He is the fastest standardbred of all time with a mile in 1:45 4/5. His streak of sub-1:47 miles (I think it was 6) is incredible and may never be matched. He has won 13 of 15 this year.
    You can find PPs for the race at Race 10 at this URL:
    https://playmeadowlands.com/wp-conte...1/mxx1126p.pdf
    Sustained excellence and a World Record marks a great horse. Unlike Flightline, Bulldog raced against the top horses in the US an Canada, every week.
    Bulldog Hanover is out of a good but not great sire (Shadow Play) and a stakes winning mare (B J's Squall).

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Hoosier Philly was a powerful winner of the Golden Rod:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1596633273077141504
    Hoosier Philly was awarded an 81 Beyer.

    Curly Jack could not match the speed of Instant Coffee:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1596655542365192192
    Instant Coffee was awarded an 82 Beyer. Instant Coffee is Bolt D'Oro's first graded stakes winner on the dirt (he has another 2 Graded winners on the turf).

    The top Beyer of the day was an 83 that was awarded to 2YOC Victory Formation:
    http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/insta...e=inc&print=on
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1596589766748868612
    In this Optional Claiming race (the new allowance) Victory Formation was on the rail and came back after being passed.

    Bulldog Hanover romped in his career finally. Here is a horse that spent his off hours breeding to 72 mares before going back into training. So we will see his foals 1 year earlier than those of Flightline.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  19. #539
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Was it just me, or were the three year old colts not as exceptional as last yearís? With the exception of Flightline the fillies and mares seemed better this year than the colts. Maybe Iím just forgetting some of the colts better performances.

    Another thought, was there a standout among the two year old colts? Admittedly I havenít checked the Derby pools.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    Was it just me, or were the three year old colts not as exceptional as last yearís? With the exception of Flightline the fillies and mares seemed better this year than the colts. Maybe Iím just forgetting some of the colts better performances.

    Another thought, was there a standout among the two year old colts? Admittedly I havenít checked the Derby pools.
    This was a weird year that I hope is not repeated. The KYD winner skipped the Preakness. Not a great precedent. I don't think there was a stand-out 3YO. Epicenter was the most consistent, but he didn't win all the time. That's OK; it helps us to appreciate when a good horse comes along. Having an American Pharoah and Justify come along so soon after each other is a rarity IMHO and based on history.

    There have been good and interesting 2YOs, but they don't run often enough to know if they are for real. I don't have one picked out. The one that the KYD Pool-2 odds started with as the Morning Line favorite only had 1 start; that's bogus. The top 2YOs had their rest and will now be going back into training for the Road to the Roses. Not having sturdy horses enough to run every 2-3 weeks turns out to contribute to the mystery.
    I've also mentioned before that it is difficult to race a 2YO and not have soreness in the knees. The bone structures mature between 2 and 3YO.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

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