Covid screws up this season of basketball, too

[ChillinDuke]

I don’t see an arena with 100% of people being vaccinated as a serious concern for the spreading of Covid. From what I understand vaccinated people are around 10 times less likely (than the unvaccinated) to subsequently become positive for Covid. So when you have vaccinated people around others who are vaccinated the likelihood of transmission of Covid is very low.

Then you ain't got your ear to the ground. My sister-in-law just went to a 12-person bday dinner in NYC. She and the entire party was vaccinated and everyone except 1 person was boosted, with boosts obviously in the past month max. 6 of those attendees, including my SIL, are now positive for COVID. And counting, with a couple more tests pending.

Everyone was young. Symptoms are mild ish. Should end up being ok. But an arena with 100% vaccination is almost certainly still cause for concern re: COVID spread.

As much as I hate to admit it, this thing is ramping back right now. Offices in NYC are back to remote work mandates and vaccinated and boosted people are getting sick and spreading it. It's not good.

- Chillin

[Acymetric]

I know it isn’t realistic but not selling food and drink would help.

I was on a 90 minute flight this summer and they came through with snacks and drinks. I have no idea why. People can last that long without snacks and drinks (they can have emergency supplies for those who request it) and providing it gave people an excuse to take off their masks.

I suspect that's the literal reason they kept doing it.

[MChambers]

Then you ain't got your ear to the ground. My sister-in-law just went to a 12-person bday dinner in NYC. She and the entire party was vaccinated and everyone except 1 person was boosted, with boosts obviously in the past month max. 6 of those attendees, including my SIL, are now positive for COVID. And counting, with a couple more tests pending.

Everyone was young. Symptoms are mild ish. Should end up being ok. But an arena with 100% vaccination is almost certainly still cause for concern re: COVID spread.

As much as I hate to admit it, this thing is ramping back right now. Offices in NYC are back to remote work mandates and vaccinated and boosted people are getting sick and spreading it. It's not good.

- Chillin

We don”t really know very much about long Covid, but it’s possible that some of these people who are asymptomatic or have mild cases end up having long term issues, That’s my biggest worry about omicron, because it sounds like even those of us who have had boosters run a significant risk of being infected.

[Steven43]

Then you ain't got your ear to the ground. My sister-in-law just went to a 12-person bday dinner in NYC. She and the entire party was vaccinated and everyone except 1 person was boosted, with boosts obviously in the past month max. 6 of those attendees, including my SIL, are now positive for COVID. And counting, with a couple more tests pending.

Everyone was young. Symptoms are mild ish. Should end up being ok. But an arena with 100% vaccination is almost certainly still cause for concern re: COVID spread.

As much as I hate to admit it, this thing is ramping back right now. Offices in NYC are back to remote work mandates and vaccinated and boosted people are getting sick and spreading it. It's not good.

- Chillin

That’s a microscopically-small sample size. Not to mention the fact that there could’ve been some false positives and they might have gotten Covid somewhere else. I can’t take that example too seriously.

And anyway, 90-plus% of hospitalizations from Covid are from the unvaccinated and that’s even with the percentage of vaccinated over age 12 now dwarfing the percentage of unvaccinated over age 12 in most parts of the country.

The bottom line is that if nearly everyone were vaccinated, and continued getting boosters as new variants arise, this pandemic would end virtually overnight.

The focus should be on getting those misinformed unvaccinated to get vaccinated and stop focusing on those who are up-to-date on their vaccinations.

[Bluedog]

The bottom line is that if nearly everyone were vaccinated, and continued getting boosters as new variants arise, this pandemic would end virtually overnight.

I used to think that, but Vermont, Israel and other places suggest otherwise. Certainly, hospitalizations and deaths would be reduced. This thing is quite evasive and dynamic in nature.

[Steven43]

I used to think that, but Vermont, Israel and other places suggest otherwise. Certainly, hospitalizations and deaths would be reduced. This thing is quite evasive and dynamic in nature.

Not sure where you’re going with this, but if you’re trying to make the claim that the most effective way to end this pandemic is anything but vaccinations then you’re 100% wrong.

[freshmanjs]

I used to think that, but Vermont, Israel and other places suggest otherwise. Certainly, hospitalizations and deaths would be reduced. This thing is quite evasive and dynamic in nature.

Israel? Why are you using that example. Israel has a very mediocre vax rate.

[weezie]

Israel? Why are you using that example. Israel has a very mediocre vax rate.

Israel makes a great lightweight mask though. Sonovia. It has zinc in the weave. I love them.

[Bluedog]

Not sure where you’re going with this, but if you’re trying to make the claim that the most effective way to end this pandemic is anything but vaccinations then you’re 100% wrong.

I'm not suggesting that. Vaccinations are the #1 most important thing we can do as a society to combat this, but apparently it isn't a complete silver bullet by itself. That's all I'm suggesting.

[Steven43]

I'm not suggesting that. Vaccinations are the #1 most important thing we can do as a society to combat this, but apparently it isn't a complete silver bullet by itself. That's all I'm suggesting.

It seems I misinterpreted what you were trying to say. I’m sorry about that.

And I agree that there is no perfect solution. While vaccines are miraculous and have saved tens of millions of lives over the years, they have never been a perfect solution to any virus. The scientific community has always known and acknowledged that. They are simply the best thing we’ve got.

[Bluedog]

It seems I misinterpreted what you were trying to say. I’m sorry about that.

And I agree that there is no perfect solution. While vaccines are miraculous and have saved tens of millions of lives over the years, they have never been a perfect solution to any virus. The scientific community has always known and acknowledged that. They are simply the best thing we’ve got.

Yep, no worries! Perhaps I wasn't clear in my wording. And agreed on your last statement.

[ChillinDuke]

That’s a microscopically-small sample size. Not to mention the fact that there could’ve been some false positives and they might have gotten Covid somewhere else. I can’t take that example too seriously.

And anyway, 90-plus% of hospitalizations from Covid are from the unvaccinated and that’s even with the percentage of vaccinated over age 12 now dwarfing the percentage of unvaccinated over age 12 in most parts of the country.

The bottom line is that if nearly everyone were vaccinated, and continued getting boosters as new variants arise, this pandemic would end virtually overnight.

The focus should be on getting those misinformed unvaccinated to get vaccinated and stop focusing on those who are up-to-date on their vaccinations.

Not trying to be argumentative, just don't want to move the goal posts here.

You originally said that an arena of 100% vaccinated spectators is not at risk of spreading COVID. The quote was, "I don’t see an arena with 100% of people being vaccinated as a serious concern for the spreading of Covid."

The research and science-based evidence, throughout the pandemic, has always fairly significantly lagged real-world events. All I'm saying is that I don't need to wait for the technical, peer-reviewed paper to feel a very high confidence level that being vaccinated (and boosted too) will still spread COVID. It's happening right now - in places like Israel and the UK, heck even Vermont and New Hampshire which have very high vaccination rates. It's crushing NYC right now, and I'm seeing it firsthand in my own family for the first time - which makes it all the more real. We've been lucky to avoid it until now. The vaccines are not going to stop the spread of omicron. I'm quite convinced of that already. YMMV in terms of what it takes to convince.

Now, if you want to talk about hospitalization and death rates or about the severity of symptoms. I'm with you that vaccines are still highly effective. And luckily it seems fairly encouraging that omicron is yielding less bad outcomes - thank God. But the sheer number of people that will be infected by omicron - in short order - on the order of a few weeks - is going to be enough to yield a high gross number of severe outcomes. A hopefully small percentage of severe outcomes - but a high gross number. That seems to be where this is headed.

So given that belief (and I understand yours may be different), I do think there is a very real possibility that Cameron will be less filled (or potentially vacant) at some point this season - vaccinated or not. That's all I'm saying. Vaccines are still extremely important - but hospitalization numbers will dictate public health measures - as they probably should.

- Chillin

[camion]

Not trying to be argumentative, just don't want to move the goal posts here.

You originally said that an arena of 100% vaccinated spectators is not at risk of spreading COVID. The quote was, "I don’t see an arena with 100% of people being vaccinated as a serious concern for the spreading of Covid."

The research and science-based evidence, throughout the pandemic, has always fairly significantly lagged real-world events. All I'm saying is that I don't need to wait for the technical, peer-reviewed paper to feel a very high confidence level that being vaccinated (and boosted too) will still spread COVID. It's happening right now - in places like Israel and the UK, heck even Vermont and New Hampshire which have very high vaccination rates. It's crushing NYC right now, and I'm seeing it firsthand in my own family for the first time - which makes it all the more real. We've been lucky to avoid it until now. The vaccines are not going to stop the spread of omicron. I'm quite convinced of that already. YMMV in terms of what it takes to convince.

Now, if you want to talk about hospitalization and death rates or about the severity of symptoms. I'm with you that vaccines are still highly effective. And luckily it seems fairly encouraging that omicron is yielding less bad outcomes - thank God. But the sheer number of people that will be infected by omicron - in short order - on the order of a few weeks - is going to be enough to yield a high gross number of severe outcomes. A hopefully small percentage of severe outcomes - but a high gross number. That seems to be where this is headed.

So given that belief (and I understand yours may be different), I do think there is a very real possibility that Cameron will be less filled (or potentially vacant) at some point this season - vaccinated or not. That's all I'm saying. Vaccines are still extremely important - but hospitalization numbers will dictate public health measures - as they probably should.

- Chillin

No offense but...,


Just sayin'.




Not that you don't have a point.

[aimo]

Just a few doors down from my office, a group is having a potluck lunch, and going against our COVID policy. People on top of each other eating. I fear it will turn into an outbreak. Just glad I am not back in the office until 1/4/2022!!!

[camion]

Just a few doors down from my office, a group is having a potluck lunch, and going against our COVID policy. People on top of each other eating. I fear it will turn into an outbreak. Just glad I am not back in the office until 1/4/2022!!!

Just pray that Omicron* didn't make it to the party. I hear it spreads like whipped butter.



*I can't believe it's not Delta.!!

[chrishoke]

Not trying to be argumentative, just don't want to move the goal posts here.

You originally said that an arena of 100% vaccinated spectators is not at risk of spreading COVID. The quote was, "I don’t see an arena with 100% of people being vaccinated as a serious concern for the spreading of Covid."

The research and science-based evidence, throughout the pandemic, has always fairly significantly lagged real-world events. All I'm saying is that I don't need to wait for the technical, peer-reviewed paper to feel a very high confidence level that being vaccinated (and boosted too) will still spread COVID. It's happening right now - in places like Israel and the UK, heck even Vermont and New Hampshire which have very high vaccination rates. It's crushing NYC right now, and I'm seeing it firsthand in my own family for the first time - which makes it all the more real. We've been lucky to avoid it until now. The vaccines are not going to stop the spread of omicron. I'm quite convinced of that already. YMMV in terms of what it takes to convince.

Now, if you want to talk about hospitalization and death rates or about the severity of symptoms. I'm with you that vaccines are still highly effective. And luckily it seems fairly encouraging that omicron is yielding less bad outcomes - thank God. But the sheer number of people that will be infected by omicron - in short order - on the order of a few weeks - is going to be enough to yield a high gross number of severe outcomes. A hopefully small percentage of severe outcomes - but a high gross number. That seems to be where this is headed.

So given that belief (and I understand yours may be different), I do think there is a very real possibility that Cameron will be less filled (or potentially vacant) at some point this season - vaccinated or not. That's all I'm saying. Vaccines are still extremely important - but hospitalization numbers will dictate public health measures - as they probably should.

- Chillin

Unfortunately, I agree with this, and I'm a season ticket holder.

[clinresga]

...While vaccines are miraculous and have saved tens of millions of lives over the years, they have never been a perfect solution to any virus...

Smallpox. 12/9/1979.

[Bluedog]

Smallpox. 12/9/1979.

Polio is another where we are SO close to complete eradication...The polio vaccine is basically 100% effective and that protection is long-lasting.

[budwom]

I used to think that, but Vermont, Israel and other places suggest otherwise. Certainly, hospitalizations and deaths would be reduced. This thing is quite evasive and dynamic in nature.

The vast majority getting severely ill in Vermont are the unvaccinated. If everyone here were vaccinated, we'd be in marvelous shape. https://www.wcax.com/2021/12/14/watc...edia-briefing/
Yes, we have relatively few people who are unvaccinated, but they're the ones getting sick, filling the ICUs, etc.

[ChillinDuke]

No offense but...,


Just sayin'.




Not that you don't have a point.

I guess. My point with that line was I wasn't trying to argue. Steven's underlying emphasis seems to be that vaccines are important and effective, which I unequivocally agree with.

I disagreed specifically with the notion that 100% vaccination would stop spreading COVID. It wouldn't. At least not for this new variant. I'm confident of that.

I recognize that still sounds like a "no offense, but..." intro.

- Chillin