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  1. #1

    Should Duke Football Continue to Compete as a P5 Contender?

    Should Duke Football Continue to Compete as a P5 Contender?

    1] YES! Duke should commit all necessary resources to strive to become a nationally ranked P5 team.

    2] Yes, but: Duke should be realistic about its resources and prospects. It should strive to become a respectable ACC contender [meaning, it should strive for a winning season in the conference and contend for Bowl Games].

    3] No. Duke show lower its sights and compete at the FCS level, and/or Divisions II and III.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Yes, and I don't like that this thread even exists (not a shot at you OP).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    “Duke: we strive for excellence unless it’s hard or expensive.”

    Of course we should aim for league championships and whatever comes after. Not sure how there can be another answer to be honest.

    And we’re not dropping down from the ACC, not sure why folks even raise this as a serious thing. (as with Acy, not aimed at the OP).

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Yes, and I don't like that this thread even exists (not a shot at you OP).
    Acymetric, I don't like it either, but I think it's a question worth discussing.

    btw, I'm evidently not smart enough to put this into poll form. :-(
    “I love it. Coach, when we came here, we had a three-hour meeting about the core values. If you really represent the core values, it means diving on the floor, sacrificing your body for your teammates, no matter how much you’re up by or how much you’re down by, always playing hard.” -- Zion

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    “Duke: we strive for excellence unless it’s hard or expensive.”

    Of course we should aim for league championships and whatever comes after. Not sure how there can be another answer to be honest.

    And we’re not dropping down from the ACC, not sure why folks even raise this as a serious thing. (as with Acy, not aimed at the OP).
    even if we accept that competing in FOOTBALL isn't worth it, just as a supposition, we believe that competing at everything else that duke athletics does (including basketball) IS worth it, and that involves getting ACC money.
    1200. DDMF.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Manhattan
    Quote Originally Posted by hustleplays View Post
    2] Yes, but: Duke should be realistic about its resources and prospects. It should strive to become a respectable ACC contender [meaning, it should strive for a winning season in the conference and contend for Bowl Games].
    /thread

    Cutcliffe’s legacy is demonstrating that this is indeed possible.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Is it even possible to have a division 2 (or whatever it’s called) football team while remaining in division 1 for all other sports?

  8. #8

    #2

    The #2 option is both reasonable and achievable. I cannot imagine the PTB at Duke actively accepting the other choices. Football is too much a heavyweight in terms of both revenue and conference participation/leadership.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Is it even possible to have a division 2 (or whatever it’s called) football team while remaining in division 1 for all other sports?
    Georgetown and Villanova do it. I'm sure there are plenty of others but those are good comps. I think that is what people are referring to. I'm not clear on how the economics work in terms of supporting all of the non-rev D1 teams without D1 football revenues.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Honolulu
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Is it even possible to have a division 2 (or whatever it’s called) football team while remaining in division 1 for all other sports?
    It's possible. It's definitely not possible to do so as a member of a P5 conference.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by JetpackJesus View Post
    It's possible. It's definitely not possible to do so as a member of a P5 conference.
    Agreed -- competing in ACC sports requires football. and BTW the Duke athletic budget appears to be over 2.25 times the Villanova athletic budget.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Georgetown and Villanova do it. I'm sure there are plenty of others but those are good comps. I think that is what people are referring to. I'm not clear on how the economics work in terms of supporting all of the non-rev D1 teams without D1 football revenues.
    it's also not necessarily sustainable at the top level.

    Duke is far more of a prominent university than either of those two in many aspects.
    1200. DDMF.

  13. #13
    This topic, while perhaps pertinent, is not particularly new. I recall this very issue in the 1960's. I believe the faculty and administration under President Knight believed that academic excellence superseded athletic prowess and that the two pursuits were incompatible. Hiring a Cornell football coach with a losing record to replace the legendary Bill Murray was revealing.

    Many called for Duke to reduce emphasis on football. Many discussions ensued about forming a conference with like schools.

    In any case, I believe Duke's mantra now to be more of "excellence in all we do" rather than "academics first".

  14. #14
    As a fairly disinterested 3rd party (I am a UNC grad and Duke basketball only fan) I think option 2 seems reasonable. Duke can be competitive in football and could jump up and threaten to win the conference maybe once a decade or so. The thing that defines this is the ability to get a top-flight quarterback once or twice a decade.

  15. #15
    It's embarrassing that we've had this thread pop up several times over the last few months.

    Duke can win in football. Cut showed that. Don't let the last two bad seasons overshadow the transformation of this program over the previous decade.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santa Fe, TN

    Agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Yes, and I don't like that this thread even exists (not a shot at you OP).
    This shouldn't be an issue. We can and should compete in football. If Wake can do, we certainly should be able to do it better. Even "entertaining" the idea we can't compete makes us more likely not to get the players we need. We are paying a price for decades of poor decisions long ago. Let's not perpetuate the problem.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Maturin View Post
    It's embarrassing that we've had this thread pop up several times over the last few months.

    Duke can win in football. Cut showed that. Don't let the last two bad seasons overshadow the transformation of this program over the previous decade.
    And, while it's a natural question, it's tedious -- because (a) it has been asked so many times and (b) the various OP's totally ignore the potentially catastrophic implications for ACC membership and dollars flowing into the athletic department to support champion sports in non-revenue areas.

    Kindly,
    Sage
    'I mean how could anyone even think of jeopardizing women's golf, which has seven NCAA championships?'
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Maturin View Post
    It's embarrassing that we've had this thread pop up several times over the last few months.

    Duke can win in football. Cut showed that. Don't let the last two bad seasons overshadow the transformation of this program over the previous decade.
    At least Nina King seems to be working very hard to improve things...we have to find the right guy and staff, evidently money will be available for a better staff.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    At least Nina King seems to be working very hard to improve things...we have to find the right guy and staff, evidently money will be available for a better staff.
    Do you think her predecessors were not? There is no magic bullet. Selecting the next coach is ALWAYS a crap shoot.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Do you think her predecessors were not? There is no magic bullet. Selecting the next coach is ALWAYS a crap shoot.
    Duke let things get stagnant with Cutcliffe, I think that's obvious...the staff declined in quality, evidently now more money will be available. But I do agree that picking a coach is always a crap shoot, no argument on that.

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