MBB: Ohio State 71, Duke 66 Post-Game Thread

[Messimorgan17]

It seems like about half of those guys didn’t turn out to be excellent (above 40%) three-point shooters in college. It also matters more if you can hit them in the crucial moments of the big games and not just against lesser opponents when the physical and mental pressure is not nearly as great.

I would prefer that Duke target three-point shooters through the transfer option — guys who have already proven themselves on the college level. Lots of players can shoot well in high school, but it doesn’t necessarily translate to the Duke level.

Whatever it is there’s a reason that Duke is not consistently among the leaders in three-point shooting (not even close, I don’t think) even though they are the recruiting behemoth of all of college basketball. Something doesn’t add up.

There was a time year in year out we had good three point shooters. We were known for making more foul shots than our opponents took, and we had consistent foul shooting which obviously helps in close games. Those factors should not matter whether one and done or 4 year based teams. Now when we shoot free throws especially at the end of games, I cross my fingers and close my eyes. For years now, we usually leave too many points off the board ( is that the right expression)

[duke96]

Good thing we have two weeks to steam over this loss. Because that means our players and coaches do too.

Let's get after it!!!

Seems a bit odd to have such a long break this time of year no?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Seems a bit odd to have such a long break this time of year no?

Fairly common in recent years, from my memories.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Fairly common in recent years, from my memories.

Every year for exams.

[szstark]

Every year for exams.

… then usually a second one for the holidays/semester break, although this year I think it is only for one week …

[Kedsy]

There was a time year in year out we had good three point shooters. We were known for making more foul shots than our opponents took, and we had consistent foul shooting which obviously helps in close games. Those factors should not matter whether one and done or 4 year based teams. Now when we shoot free throws especially at the end of games, I cross my fingers and close my eyes. For years now, we usually leave too many points off the board ( is that the right expression)

Here's Duke's FT% for all of Coach K's 42 years at Duke:

Year	FT%
1990	76.35%
2017	76.25%
2006	76.13%
2010	75.86%
2011	75.30%
1992	74.78%
2022*	74.60%
2000	74.19%
1983	73.90%
2013	73.87%
2004	73.60%
2014	72.92%
1991	72.64%
1984	72.40%
2016	72.29%
1993	72.08%
2009	71.99%
2020	71.98%
1988	71.85%
1986	71.60%
2005	71.25%
2003	71.24%
1994	71.14%
2018	71.05%
1987	70.98%
1999	70.48%
1996	70.30%
2012	70.14%
1997	70.04%
2015	69.87%
2008	69.72%
2001	69.56%
1985	69.30%
2021	69.08%
2002	68.98%
2007	68.91%
2019	68.62%
1982	67.90%
1981	67.70%
1989	67.47%
1998	67.40%
1995	67.05%

* so far

If we keep up our current pace this year's team would be the 7th best FT shooting team of Coach K's time at Duke. Perhaps you should open your eyes.

You imply we've been poor at FT shooting "for years now," but 7 of our top 15 FT shooting teams have come since 2010.

Also, we've made more free throws this season than our opponents have attempted (103 to 80).

[duke96]

Every year for exams.

Thought that was usually later in dec. thanks

[dukelifer]

Here's Duke's FT% for all of Coach K's 42 years at Duke:

Year	FT%
1990	76.35%
2017	76.25%
2006	76.13%
2010	75.86%
2011	75.30%
1992	74.78%
2022*	74.60%
2000	74.19%
1983	73.90%
2013	73.87%
2004	73.60%
2014	72.92%
1991	72.64%
1984	72.40%
2016	72.29%
1993	72.08%
2009	71.99%
2020	71.98%
1988	71.85%
1986	71.60%
2005	71.25%
2003	71.24%
1994	71.14%
2018	71.05%
1987	70.98%
1999	70.48%
1996	70.30%
2012	70.14%
1997	70.04%
2015	69.87%
2008	69.72%
2001	69.56%
1985	69.30%
2021	69.08%
2002	68.98%
2007	68.91%
2019	68.62%
1982	67.90%
1981	67.70%
1989	67.47%
1998	67.40%
1995	67.05%

* so far

If we keep up our current pace this year's team would be the 7th best FT shooting team of Coach K's time at Duke. Perhaps you should open your eyes.

You imply we've been poor at FT shooting "for years now," but 7 of our top 15 FT shooting teams have come since 2010.

Also, we've made more free throws this season than our opponents have attempted (103 to 80).

There is always the question of how teams shoot when there is game pressure. Or how many front ends of one and ones are missed etc. Raw FT shooting % does not reveal everything. All that said- Duke shot 60% against Gonzaga in a close game and 75% against OSU. They are probably going to be in the low 70’s for the season. The question for me is whether anyone will end up above 40% in threes.

[kAzE]

The question for me is whether anyone will end up above 40% in threes.

As long we're hitting 33% as a team and getting good open looks, that should be enough to space the floor. I don't believe this team needs to shoot a ton of 3s to win. We're taking too many 3s, IMO, and we're not good enough on the offensive glass to get 2nd shots on misses. We would be more efficient if we played to our strengths: get the ball inside via drive or pass and force the defense to play a physical game. This team is bigger/stronger/more athletic at multiple positions all the time. Shooting a ton of 3s is exactly what opposing coaches want us to do.

Some of the most frustrating moments from the 2nd half of the Ohio State game for me were when we kept taking bad shots early in the shot clock. And when we did get it in the paint, we took shots trying to avoid contact (fades, floaters). The officials definitely had something to do with this, since it seemed like the entire team was allergic to contact in the final 4 minutes of the game. Those ticky tack charge calls earlier in the half made us change the way we attacked them.

[UrinalCake]

Really enjoyed the front page article from Mr. Sumner that recaps the Zoom conference from Nolan Smith. He echoes a lot of what we've been discussing here since the OSU game - lack of ball movement on offense, lack of team play leading to bad shots, and a sense of contentment after the big Gonzaga win. Really good point about missing kickouts to open shooters. When you trade a potential wide open shot for a heavily contested shot, over the course of the game you're costing yourself a lot of points.

I like the term "team shot," meaning the best shot that the team can get rather than the best shot an individual can get. That must be a really hard concept to instill in young players who have been the focal point of their offense for their whole lives, but maybe a loss will help develop a teaching moment. Also it's good to know that the coaches are in fact aware that players get tired when they play too many minutes, and that a bench can help offset that .

Reading between the lines a little, it sounds like there wasn't much time to teach or develop in between the Gonzaga and OSU games, but now that they have a break and some easier games they can make adjustments and put some new wrinkles in place. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the team looks over the upcoming stretch.

[hustleplays]

Really enjoyed the front page article from Mr. Sumner that recaps the Zoom conference from Nolan Smith. He echoes a lot of what we've been discussing here since the OSU game - lack of ball movement on offense, lack of team play leading to bad shots, and a sense of contentment after the big Gonzaga win. Really good point about missing kickouts to open shooters. When you trade a potential wide open shot for a heavily contested shot, over the course of the game you're costing yourself a lot of points.

I like the term "team shot," meaning the best shot that the team can get rather than the best shot an individual can get. That must be a really hard concept to instill in young players who have been the focal point of their offense for their whole lives, but maybe a loss will help develop a teaching moment. Also it's good to know that the coaches are in fact aware that players get tired when they play too many minutes, and that a bench can help offset that .

Reading between the lines a little, it sounds like there wasn't much time to teach or develop in between the Gonzaga and OSU games, but now that they have a break and some easier games they can make adjustments and put some new wrinkles in place. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the team looks over the upcoming stretch.

Thanks, UC, for your excellent post. I also really like the term "team shot" -- that there's a synthetic team buildup to any single shot taken.

I'm also struck by Coach K's delegating to a young assistant coach, Nolan, the task and opportunity of articulating to the media the learnings from a significant team loss [our only one this season]. I would have been positively impressed by giving this task to Scheyer. To give this role to Nolan is impressive and encouraging. And, IMV, Nolan did a great job -- he was honest, insightful and supportive of his players.