FB Coach Speculation

[budwom]

Since we're exploring Memory Lane, the Goldsmith situation provides a lesson for today, especially for those wondering about the new coach's staff.

Goldsmith came in with two crackerjack coordinators, Siemendinger (sp?) for offense, Craig Bohl for defense. Those guys were great, and they took the existing talent and morphed it into a really solid team.
Then those guys left, Goldie hired lesser guys, no more excellence.

Largely the same we saw with Cut who came in with a very very good staff (at the time he called it the best in the country, and while that may not have been true, the statement was not laughable...)...

Then those guys left (Latina et al) and were replaced with inexperienced guys many of whom Cut had coached, had has grad assistants, etc.

Point being, the new guy needs to be a really good recruiter, and a guy who can muster a really good staff (for which Nina will have to pay).
Here's hoping. I miss seeing competitive football in WW.

[CameronBornAndBred]

And one year in his position as the prior ND DC is head coach at my other alma mater, Vandy. Not that it matters, but my preference would be for an OC from a P5 school or a HC from a mid-major. Great offenses put butts in seats.

Just because the HC coached defense doesn't mean that he can't make an excellent hire at OC. In the reverse, if Duke DOES get an OC for the offensive job, he sure as hell better hire a top notch DC, because our defense sucked the last two years. The point totals against us were beyond abysmal.

[ChillinDuke]

Come on, man.

Ignoring the condescending intro, yes, obviously it's difficult to win two games against very good teams. It's hard to win a national championship in any sport.

Amassing talent is a onus on the coach. If you can't recruit top ten level talent to Notre Dame, you aren't very good at your job. The name, prestige, history, facilities, and advantages are all top ten. Which is why they are historically a top ten program.

That's why people who "closely watch college football" are surprised by this move. He's literally walking away from one of the legacy programs in the sport WEEKS AWAY from one of the best shots they've bad to win a title in several decades.

I suspect that Notre Dame is livid at the Big Picture of what this decision suggests about the attractiveness of their program.

Imagine that a coach left Duke basketball a week before the ACC Tournament with a top ten team - to go coach at Florida. You'd be incredulous. It would feel ike an indictment of the program.

Is your insinuation true? You suggest Notre Dame has a talent deficit versus other football programs. How do LSU recruiting stats compare with Golden Domers, historically as well as in recent years?

For 2022, Notre Dame is ranked 4th with LSU 15th. 2021 LSU is 3rd, Notre Dame is 9th. If you go back further, LSU is reliably top five-ish, ND is around 15th.

Georgia is always to tier, but they haven't translated their talent into a championship.

I may not be a college football guru, but I do pay some attention to the sport. In my personal opinion, the many advantages at Notre Dame aren't negated by any significant talent shortfall.

Clearly, either Brain Kelly disagrees with me, or it's worth the (significant) money to find out.

I think it's just a mathematical question.

ND has a 75% chance to get to the CFP. But only a 10% chance of winning 2 games.

LSU has a 40% chance to get to the CFP. But a 25% chance of winning 2 games.

Something like that. Just using those numbers as illustrative. In the end, I agree that the math probably makes ND more attractive if your sole goal is to win championships. But I'm sure there's more calculus involved than that.

I'm surprised at all this. On balance, ND seems like the better job, especially given the ingrained foundation that BK has built there. He will now have to build that at LSU; maybe he's starting from a good base, but nonetheless he's going to have to build a foundation for some period of time.

But then again, maybe BK just wants a new challenge with a slightly different (but potentially more tasty) recipe. He may never win a title or even be super competitive, but even if he doesn't that doesn't necessarily mean his decision was a bad one.

- Chillin

[arnie]

I think it is fair to say that Duke made a choice to invest in basketball which brought much greater National recognition than football would ever bring. Duke was competing for championships in basketball and was getting attention with the rise of ESPN. There are not infinite resources. I think Duke made the right bet.

Interesting perspective I guess. I don’t agree that Duke had to go so low with football expenditures/attitude to fund b-ball. In the very long term, neglecting football may cause damage to b-ball fortunes.

[Reisen]

I know for a fact that Frank Reich wanted the job years ago, but I think that ship has sailed now.

[uh_no]

I know for a fact that Frank Reich wanted the job years ago, but I think that ship has sailed now.

did Frankreich wave the white flag on that one?

[cato]

The point is that it is not easy to replace a Spurrier with a Spurrier. Duke could not do that and it is not clear they will find another Cut who did win and even longer than did Spurrier.

You have made this point time and again, but I don’t understand your argument. You agree that Cut’s tenure at Duke had run its course. Now that that era is over and given the dismal state of the program, what do you think Duke should do?

[dukelifer]

You have made this point time and again, but I don’t understand your argument. You agree that Cut’s tenure at Duke had run its course. Now that that era is over and given the dismal state of the program, what do you think Duke should do?

I am torn about breaking the bank on football. I am not in the camp any successful coach and his staff will turn Duke into an instant winner. I could be wrong here and maybe Duke should invest 6-10M a year in coach’s salaries. The best schools are paying .5M to 1M for their assistant coaches. Is that what is needed? Can Duke afford this?

[91Duke]

Bruce Feldman at The Athletic has offered up a list of possible candidates to replace Coach Cutcliffe. Full article is behind the paywall here, but the list is:

• Jeff Monken (Army)
• Jim Knowles (OkSt DC)
• Josh Gattis (Mich OC)
• Mike Elko (TA&M DC)
• Jamey Chadwell (Coastal)
• Mike Houston (ECU)

Of these, I would be most excited by Gattis, but Monken or Houston seem most realistic.

[budwom]

I am torn about breaking the bank on football. I am not in the camp any successful coach and his staff will turn Duke into an instant winner. I could be wrong here and maybe Duke should invest 6-10M a year in coach’s salaries. The best schools are paying .5M to 1M for their assistant coaches. Is that what is needed? Can Duke afford this?

I do think there is a middle ground where we pay the new guy a million or so more than Cut, maybe another million or two for assistant augmentation...like it or not, we're involved in the arms race, even if we're losing.

[HoKogan]

Bruce Feldman at The Athletic has offered up a list of possible candidates to replace Coach Cutcliffe. Full article is behind the paywall here, but the list is:

• Jeff Monken (Army)
• Jim Knowles (OkSt DC)
• Josh Gattis (Mich OC)
• Mike Elko (TA&M DC)
• Jamey Chadwell (Coastal)
• Mike Houston (ECU)

Of these, I would be most excited by Gattis, but Monken or Houston seem most realistic.

I doubt that Chadwell or Houston are being considered by the committee. Thats just a gut reaction on my part. Also doesn't mention that Freeman will interview for the job.

[budwom]

I doubt that Chadwell or Houston are being considered by the committee. Thats just a gut reaction on my part. Also doesn't mention that Freeman will interview for the job.

A place like Duke requires a Plan A, B, C, D and E...happy we're aiming high, but the competition is stiff. Houston sounds like he's going to stay put anyway, the Coastal guy has some issues I've heard...
This is why Nina had to begin collecting names months ago...(which she did).

[Chicago 1995]

I doubt that Chadwell or Houston are being considered by the committee. Thats just a gut reaction on my part. Also doesn't mention that Freeman will interview for the job.

Where have you seen Freeman will interview?

Give the dollars that ND and LSU will be throwing at him and that he’s got a chance at the ND HC job, and probably is a lock for the Cincy job if it opens, I would be surprised if he had any interest in Duke.

Gattis, I suspect, won’t have much interest either . We’re not a big enough fish.

Monken seems attainable

[PDDuke85]

A place like Duke requires a Plan A, B, C, D and E...happy we're aiming high, but the competition is stiff. Houston sounds like he's going to stay put anyway, the Coastal guy has some issues I've heard...
This is why Nina had to begin collecting names months ago...(which she did).

From Wikipedia Re: Chadwell

In 2018, the NCAA released a detailed report concerning numerous NCAA violations across the Charleston Southern athletics department that occurred during Chadwell's tenure as head football coach. The athletics department was found to have incorrectly certified 55 student athletes across 12 sports over a six-year period, and football players were found to have used scholarship funds to purchase electronics and jewelry from the campus book store. Ultimately, the NCAA sanctions included vacating 18 wins from the 2014 and 2015 football seasons and the 2015 Big South Championship, in addition to several vacated wins in other sports. Also vacated were three wins over crosstown rival The Citadel, games during which CSU used ineligible players.[1]

[HoKogan]

Where have you seen Freeman will interview?

Give the dollars that ND and LSU will be throwing at him and that he’s got a chance at the ND HC job, and probably is a lock for the Cincy job if it opens, I would be surprised if he had any interest in Duke.

Gattis, I suspect, won’t have much interest either . We’re not a big enough fish.

Monken seems attainable

Freeman may opt for a power 5 job over Cincy, I know he has a background there, but you never know, he might want to try his hand elsewhere. Now if he's up for the ND job and they aren't just waiting for Fickell to make a decision, then Duke doesn't have a chance.

I think the idea that Josh Gattis is "too big" for Duke to be ridiculous. He's from Durham, graduated from Wake, he can do what he wants, shape the program the way he likes without worrying about a huge legacy to overcome. He'd also get 3 mil a year, not bad for his 1st HC job. The only issue with Gattis is as soon as he has success and the big dogs come sniffing, he gone, as the kids say. And thats ok.

I think the idea that Duke just might be able to get the coach from Army or from ECU to be laughable and somewhat sad. A lot of you don't hold this program in much esteem? How many of you believe that Cut made Duke Football a better place than it was before he came? If so, then hoping Duke might can get the Army coach seems counter to that. He'd be lucky to get this job, honestly, and I think its bigger than him, if I'm being honest.

[budwom]

From Wikipedia Re: Chadwell

In 2018, the NCAA released a detailed report concerning numerous NCAA violations across the Charleston Southern athletics department that occurred during Chadwell's tenure as head football coach. The athletics department was found to have incorrectly certified 55 student athletes across 12 sports over a six-year period, and football players were found to have used scholarship funds to purchase electronics and jewelry from the campus book store. Ultimately, the NCAA sanctions included vacating 18 wins from the 2014 and 2015 football seasons and the 2015 Big South Championship, in addition to several vacated wins in other sports. Also vacated were three wins over crosstown rival The Citadel, games during which CSU used ineligible players.[1]

yes, I was being intentionally vague...ain't gonna be Chadwell...

[hallcity]

If, and it's a big if, the new coach succeeds, we need to reinforce that success massively. We can't allow other schools to outbid us for a coach who's been successful at Duke. Give a successful head coach the money to keep successful coordinators and assistant coaches. Give them what they need in terms of the general football program budget. Would Spurrier have finished his career at Duke if Duke had matched Florida's offer? Who knows but there were many signs before and after he left Duke that he really, really enjoyed his time at Duke. We've tried everything else and it doesn't work. It took a hell of a lot of money to keep Coach K when the NBA beckoned but it was well worth it. We should have done that for Spurrier. We should have done that for Cutcliffe. We've got to do it for football if we get the chance.

But I assume that the new head football coach will be successful and that's a crap shoot at best. There are serious impediments to success at Duke that go beyond money -- like the fact that over the last nearly 70 years the Duke football culture has been almost completely destroyed. Rebuilding that football culture is a massive project.

[JasonEvans]

I think the idea that Josh Gattis is "too big" for Duke to be ridiculous. He's from Durham, graduated from Wake, he can do what he wants, shape the program the way he likes without worrying about a huge legacy to overcome. He'd also get 3 mil a year, not bad for his 1st HC job. The only issue with Gattis is as soon as he has success and the big dogs come sniffing, he gone, as the kids say. And thats ok.

I think the idea that Duke just might be able to get the coach from Army or from ECU to be laughable and somewhat sad. A lot of you don't hold this program in much esteem? How many of you believe that Cut made Duke Football a better place than it was before he came? If so, then hoping Duke might can get the Army coach seems counter to that. He'd be lucky to get this job, honestly, and I think its bigger than him, if I'm being honest.

If Gattis or someone else comes here and has the kind of success that makes the "big dogs" take notice, I will take that even if it means going through another coaching search. That means the Duke program is back to being quite competitive and successful in the ACC. I'll take that win any day.

And I agree that any coach from a non-P5 conference is going to pay attention and think about it if even the worst P5 school comes calling. Sure, Army and ECU may be in better shape than Duke right now, but the resources, attention, and prestige of being in the ACC/SEC/Big10/Big12/PAC12 is simply too much for anyone else to ignore. I'm not saying it is automatic that a mid-major coach takes a P5 job if offered, but the notion that Duke could not lure someone from a successful mid-major program is just not true, IMO.

[53n206]

If Gattis or someone else comes here and has the kind of success that makes the "big dogs" take notice, I will take that even if it means going through another coaching search. That means the Duke program is back to being quite competitive and successful in the ACC. I'll take that win any day.

And I agree that any coach from a non-P5 conference is going to pay attention and think about it if even the worst P5 school comes calling. Sure, Army and ECU may be in better shape than Duke right now, but the resources, attention, and prestige of being in the ACC/SEC/Big10/Big12/PAC12 is simply too much for anyone else to ignore. I'm not saying it is automatic that a mid-major coach takes a P5 job if offered, but the notion that Duke could not lure someone from a successful mid-major program is just not true, IMO.

I am in 100% agreement. Duke is a good job.

[CameronBornAndBred]

If, and it's a big if, the new coach succeeds, we need to reinforce that success massively. We can't allow other schools to outbid us for a coach who's been successful at Duke. Give a successful head coach the money to keep successful coordinators and assistant coaches. Give them what they need in terms of the general football program budget. Would Spurrier have finished his career at Duke if Duke had matched Florida's offer? Who knows but there were many signs before and after he left Duke that he really, really enjoyed his time at Duke. We've tried everything else and it doesn't work. It took a hell of a lot of money to keep Coach K when the NBA beckoned but it was well worth it. We should have done that for Spurrier. We should have done that for Cutcliffe. We've got to do it for football if we get the chance.

But I assume that the new head football coach will be successful and that's a crap shoot at best. There are serious impediments to success at Duke that go beyond money -- like the fact that over the last nearly 70 years the Duke football culture has been almost completely destroyed. Rebuilding that football culture is a massive project.

Spurrier to Florida always would have had something that money couldn't buy, and that's returning to your Alma Mater. Not saying that Duke couldn't have tried harder, but I'm guessing it would have always been an uphill battle.