MBB: Duke @ Ohio State (Tue 11/30, 9:30 pm, ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[JetpackJesus]

Hypothetically, what would you call a game that follows your most important and emotionally taxing game of the year and is against a good opponent that you would expect to beat if it were elsewhere on the schedule, but will be iffy since it's following your biggest game?

A (hopefully only potential) letdown game.

[simplyluvin]

A hallmark of Coach K teams has been not to take any game for granted, not to mention rising to the occasion. yes, there are the occasional Mercers and Lehighs (which maybe don’t classify as letdowns in a sense), but I can’t recall a recent bad letdown, other than perhaps Stephen F Austin. This is a good test. It’s one thing to say, one game at a time, but it’s another to be mentally prepared for a tough environment after an emotional high just a few days ago. Coaches will do whatever they can to remind our guys that their poop stinks just like everyone else.

OSU does not seem to be the same team as last year, but rest assured they will get up for this one. In fact, they might have a more physical team than the Zags. A good “knock back” test.

[WillJ]

As an Ann Arbor native, I'm looking forward to a continuance of OSU's bad week.

[DavidBenAkiva]

A hallmark of Coach K teams has been not to take any game for granted, not to mention rising to the occasion. yes, there are the occasional Mercers and Lehighs (which maybe don’t classify as letdowns in a sense), but I can’t recall a recent bad letdown, other than perhaps Stephen F Austin. This is a good test. It’s one thing to say, one game at a time, but it’s another to be mentally prepared for a tough environment after an emotional high just a few days ago. Coaches will do whatever they can to remind our guys that their poop stinks just like everyone else.

OSU does not seem to be the same team as last year, but rest assured they will get up for this one. In fact, they might have a more physical team than the Zags. A good “knock back” test.

Losing at Wake Forest, just before COVID wiped out the season, was a huge letdown. If Duke had won that game, they would have ended the season as the #1 seed in the ACCT and been gifted the trophy the way FSU was instead. Duke would have also been looking at a potential 2-seed in the theoretical NCAAT that never took place. That game, in particular how regulation ended, was a major letdown.

[kako]

Losing at Wake Forest, just before COVID wiped out the season, was a huge letdown. If Duke had won that game, they would have ended the season as the #1 seed in the ACCT and been gifted the trophy the way FSU was instead. Duke would have also been looking at a potential 2-seed in the theoretical NCAAT that never took place. That game, in particular how regulation ended, was a major letdown.

Yup, how quickly we forget! I was thinking about that same Wake game - likely the biggest win in Danny Manning's head coaching career. Letdown is human nature, so it happens to Duke, too. With K in charge, there is no letdown from the coaching staff. So any letdown comes from the players. I read an article about how K praised Moore when he spoke up in the huddle in the Gonzaga game after Baker turned the ball over with Duke looking like it was unraveling. As the upperclass leader of this team (yes, he's a co-captain with Baker, but Moore is looking like this year's leader of this pack, with the numbers to prove it), on the player side it's then up to Moore to keep the fire burning. That's the mark of a great leader, like the Laettners, Battiers, Cooks, etc. in the past. If the team responds tomorrow, some credit has to go to Moore.

9F

[SavDukeGrad]

Per the Duke BB Instagram about 6pm, the team was at RDU and leaving for Columbus.

[CameronDuke]

I’m seeing Duke -3 as the current line for tomorrow’s contest.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Per the Duke BB Instagram about 6pm, the team was at RDU and leaving for Columbus.

Interesting - I assumed they had gone straight to Columbus. It is good that they came back to Durham for a day of classes.

[DukieInBrasil]

A #2 team losing to a #1 team usually won't drop you too much in the rankings anyway. The #2 team was supposed to lose. Yeah the Bruins got blown out, but they were missing their center and reportedly has illnesses going around. UCLA dropping 4 makes sense - they fall behind the undefeated team that beat the #1 team, as well as two other power conference undefeated teams. "The Conference of Champions" (ahem) team also still has its support from the voters who chose them to be #2 in the first place. Gonzaga lost a tight game to a #5 seed, one bounce and the game could have gone the other way. Dropping 2 spots isn't so crazy. But people still think Gonzaga is a great team, and Purdue only beat out the Zags for #2 by 14 measly points. I kinda feel sorry (though not that sorry) for Purdue not being #1, as they have never been ranked #1 ever, not even in the Big Dog days (tip of the hat to Mr. Capel - there have been better passes by a Duke player, but that behind the back pass to GHill to beat Purdue will always be in my memory).

Anyway, yippee for Duke being ranked #1 again in a season. I throw a ceremonial piece of confetti into the air as I eat a bagel... I'm sure the team is focused on improving, no matter what the ranking is. Beating OSU will be another sign of improvement (ability to keep focused on the game at hand to avoid the proverbial trap game and play well in a road game). But the only rankings I really care about is the last one in April.

9F

I was at that game!!!, courtesy of my dad, who is a Duke alum and we lived nearby. That play took my breath away and had me jumping out of my seat!

[UrinalCake]

Letdown is human nature, so it happens to Duke, too. With K in charge, there is no letdown from the coaching staff. So any letdown comes from the players.

I remember a post-game presser after a lethargic win over a cupcake OOC opponent when K said something to the effect of "we were battling human nature." As much as we would like for the players to give 100% effort 100% of the time, the reality is that's not possible.

I do think they have plenty to be fired up for in tomorrow's game. I know I've finally recovered from Friday and am ready to go!

[Billy Dat]

Game Day - Let's GO!!!!!!!!!

[CameronDuke]

Game Day - Let's GO!!!!!!!!!

Let’s Go Duke! Line is Duke -2 right now.

[Billy Dat]

Let’s Go Duke! Line is Duke -2 right now.

I think it started -3 so the money is pouring in for OSU which is interesting. I am very confident that Duke is going to show up, play well, and win convincingly. I hope I am correct.

[subzero02]

I think it started -3 so the money is pouring in for OSU which is interesting. I am very confident that Duke is going to show up, play well, and win convincingly. I hope I am correct.

I am seeing Duke -1.5... are we going to get some surprise news about our lineup. Something is not quite adding up here.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Maybe a bunch of tOSU fans that were hoping to lay down money on the football team in the playoffs have decided this is their fallback option?

[scottdude8]

This is the time of year that I remind everyone that, prior to the craziness of the COVID year and our loss to Illinois, there had been one unifying thread between our first two losses in the ACC-B1G challenge: me covering the game for The Chronicle. I will not be in Columbus tonight, which bodes well for our odds

More seriously though, and hopefully without jinxing things, I find myself not overly worried about this game unless A) We overlook the game after the Gonzaga victory or B) We get some road game weirdness (i.e. young guys being affected, OSU being extra motivated, etc.). Coming into this season I thought OSUs preseason ranking was a bit lofty considering they were arguably overachievers last year and they lost their primary "make my own offense" guy in Duane Washington. Lo and behold, the Buckeyes have lost twice, needed buzzer beaters for two of their victories, including one against Akron.

EJ Liddell is essentially Ohio State's entire offense right now: he averages 22 points a game and no one else scores in double figures. Liddell plays like an undersized center at 6'7'', and typically is able to use that to create mismatches and score from the outside against opposing centers (that's what he did against Michigan's Hunter Dickinson last season). But no one else in Ohio State's rotation is taller than 6'8'' (Kyle Young), and while he has a reputation as another stretch shooter he's shooting below 25% from deep this year. While both Young and Liddell are strong for their size, neither is huge (Liddell maxes out at 240) and would worry me as much as a guy like Tshiebwe did earlier this year. One scenario defensively is we stick Paolo on EJ given his athleticism and ability to stick with him on the perimeter, and put Mark on Young with the directive to not worry too much about his shooting. The other is to throw Mark on EJ and hope that Mark's length can discourage EJ's outside shot and make up for a (probably minor) agility differential between the two.

The other key will be keeping pressure on the OSU guards. No Buckeye guard averages more than 8 points per game, and the only ones shooting more than ~30% from three aren't shooting enough to make the numbers viable yet. Thus, I think our perimeter defense can take chances and be aggressive to not only create turnovers, but make it harder for Liddell to get the ball where he wants to.

Long story short, I really think we match up well here, as the Buckeyes are going to have to go through our strength (our interior) to find their offense.

[ChillinDuke]

Hypothetically, what would you call a game that follows your most important and emotionally taxing game of the year and is against a good opponent that you would expect to beat if it were elsewhere on the schedule, but will be iffy since it's following your biggest game?

A letdown game.

This is not a trap game, for those that are intellectually honest with words and definitions. Which I have a funny feeling DBR posters are, generally.

A trap game is when you play 10-13 BC at BC, when they have won 3 of their last 4, right before you play your 1st UNC game.

- Chillin

[camion]

A letdown game.

This is not a trap game, for those that are intellectually honest with words and definitions. Which I have a funny feeling DBR posters are, generally.

A trap game is when you play 10-13 BC at BC, when they have won 3 of their last 4, right before you play your 1st UNC game.

- Chillin

I would contend that a trap game can happen when you are looking backward as well as when you are looking forward. Here's one link to an "expert" explanation.

I would also contend that intellectually honest opinions may differ.

[Dr. Maturin]

I'm not sure I'd call this a trap game, but I do think this one may be deceptively hard. Duke is #1 playing an unranked team on the road... and yet the KenPom and Torvik basically have this as a toss up. Ohio State has underachieved so far in some respects, but their last game was a 3 point neutral site loss against a very good Florida team. They are definitely a worthy opponent. I'm not so much worried that Duke won't bring it tonight, however, after such a great performance against Gonzaga, it's hard to imagine us playing that well again.

Duke's big advantage tonight should be on offense. OSU has been pretty average defensively. They give up a ton of offensive rebounds, which should bode well for Mark Williams. They also play a style of defense that tries to force teams to win 1-on-1 battles - their opponents made field goals are only assisted 34.5% of the time. That strikes me as similar to the way Kentucky defended Duke, albeit with lesser athletes than Kentucky. This could be a game for Keels/Dell/Paulo to make things happen off the dribble.

On the other side of the ball, it really is all about E.J. Liddell. He is an efficient scorer at all levels and draws an outrageous 7.9 fouls per 40 minutes. I'd imagine multiple defenders will get the chance to guard him.

Going into the season I said I would be thrilled to go 2-1 in the big OOC games. Tonight offers a chance to go 3-0. It's our first road game and should be a real test.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm not sure I'd call this a trap game, but I do think this one may be deceptively hard. Duke is #1 playing an unranked team on the road... and yet the KenPom and Torvik basically have this as a toss up. Ohio State has underachieved so far in some respects, but their last game was a 3 point neutral site loss against a very good Florida team. They are definitely a worthy opponent. I'm not so much worried that Duke won't bring it tonight, however, after such a great performance against Gonzaga, it's hard to imagine us playing that well again.

Duke's big advantage tonight should be on offense. OSU has been pretty average defensively. They give up a ton of offensive rebounds, which should bode well for Mark Williams. They also play a style of defense that tries to force teams to win 1-on-1 battles - their opponents made field goals are only assisted 34.5% of the time. That strikes me as similar to the way Kentucky defended Duke, albeit with lesser athletes than Kentucky. This could be a game for Keels/Dell/Paulo to make things happen off the dribble.

On the other side of the ball, it really is all about E.J. Liddell. He is an efficient scorer at all levels and draws an outrageous 7.9 fouls per 40 minutes. I'd imagine multiple defenders will get the chance to guard him.

Going into the season I said I would be thrilled to go 2-1 in the big OOC games. Tonight offers a chance to go 3-0. It's our first road game and should be a real test.

Even though Banchero is the natural defender for Liddell (our 4 vs their 4), I suspect Moore will be the primary defender. Moore has been a really good defender and he has the size (6'6" and 220) to neutralize Liddell.

If Williams doesn't get going early, K may go to a small ball line up with Banchero at the 5. That would make Moore/Griffin the natural option to guard Liddell, which is a good thing.