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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    It was the right play for 2010 and the era that has now completely ended of cable system having captive eyeballs and paying more for Rutgers while not noticing that no one in NJ, much less the Tri-State Area, wants to watch Rutgers. It was not the right play for the new cord-cutting world, and the ACC will suffer for this lack of prescience.
    At the time, I thought going to bigger fan bases in smaller markets might've been the better play, but it was a tough call. For example, WF and Duke always had more Gamecock fans than home team fans then SC came to town. Ditto Clemson. There are a lot of reasons bringing SC back would never happen, but it would've helped football attendance wherever Gamecocks could travel, the way Clemons does. I think Swofford understood the demographic gun pointing at him, and did what he could. But bringing in tiny alum bases like Syracuse, BC and Miami has its downside. I don't know if it's lack of prescience, as much as bad luck, or demographic destiny...period.

    Quote Originally Posted by 75Crazie View Post
    My summarization of the last several pages of this thread: The only things that matter in college football and basketball are money ... money ... money ... money ... and money.
    That's the only thing that matters in all of Big Ed if you want to be blunt about it. Even Big Bang had numerous shows making fun of this ....but to your point, even with all the money money money...only a tiny handful of athletic departments turn a profit. Uniforms, travel, scholarships, coaches, venues, etc, COST MONEY MONEY MONEY. They just do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    What keeps Stanford/Wake/Vandy/whoever from being a dominant basketball program like Duke? I'd wager we could make a long list of reasons that would not include "TV markets."

    The markets are where Swofford saw dollar signs. But is that really the future? Given how broad the space is for following games on TV, phone, computer, etc - is that the key? Or is it about successful programs and fun competitive events?

    I'm glued to Michigan/OSU this weekend, not because of the markets, but because it promises to be can't miss competition at the highest level.
    Couple thoughts: first, TV markets are not as critical to basketball as they are to TV. Second, you can't assume there is anything keeping a program from being dominant, because being dominant is the fluke, not the norm. The better question is what made Duke dominant, and there is a list of reasons, starting with the letter K but including Cameron and how the national media glommed onto Cameron in the 80s, the UNCheat rivalry, the tradition, the Laettner shot moment, and on and on.

    As for your eyes glued to OSU/Michigan this weekend...that, like Duke NC hoops, is a national rivalry. Again, an outlier. But certainly OSU and Michigan football, and their entire athletic programs, are greatly helped by the fact that they are the "University of" in two very populous states, and they have massive alumni because they have massive enrollments. Demographics gonna demo....
    GREATEST SERIES END EPISODES EVER? !
    NOT MASH: either Burn Notice or The Americans.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    As for your eyes glued to OSU/Michigan this weekend...that, like Duke NC hoops, is a national rivalry. Again, an outlier. But certainly OSU and Michigan football, and their entire athletic programs, are greatly helped by the fact that they are the "University of" in two very populous states, and they have massive alumni because they have massive enrollments. Demographics gonna demo...
    True, but false.

    My interest has zero to do with demographics. I just want to see a game between good teams. Much like Duke/UNC - people want to watch excellence independent of markets, fan bases, population centers, media markets.

    Colin Cowherd gets this wrong. He insists no one wants to watch Boise State in big games.
       

  3. #403
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    TV markets were a logical gamble at the time but has turned out to be fool's gold

    OSU/Michigan and UNC/Duke are steeped in history and regionality and that's why they're fun for fans and interesting. The ACC grabbed a hodge podge of schools and lost its identity.
    Pratt '09, Grad '10

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by ecs15 View Post
    The ACC grabbed a hodge podge of schools and lost its identity.
    I agree with this whole post but especially the quoted sentence. The schools added little to the league and diluted its character.
       

  5. #405
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I agree with this whole post but especially the quoted sentence. The schools added little to the league and diluted its character.
    But assured its existence. The eight or nine-team ACC would be out of business today as a major conference. More schools and larger viewer footprints were necessary for the massive TV contracts. Were the media companies wrong to focus on "number of schools" and "footprints" -- possibly, but they were the ones handing out the moola.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    But assured its existence. The eight or nine-team ACC would be out of business today as a major conference. More schools and larger viewer footprints were necessary for the massive TV contracts. Were the media companies wrong to focus on "number of schools" and "footprints" -- possibly, but they were the ones handing out the moola.
    I agree with the "Sage". We see the same thing going on with the Big12 now.

  7. #407
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    the ACC contract runs through 2036. I think this will be the largest inflation adjusted contract the ACC ever gets.
    I donít believe ACC broadcast contracts run through 2036, but rather that the schools have committed whatever their revenue from such broadcasts may be through 2036. An important distinction.
       

  8. #408
       

  9. #409

    Ahem

    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    ... certainly OSU and Michigan football, and their entire athletic programs, are greatly helped by the fact that they are the "University of" in two very populous states, and they have massive alumni because they have massive enrollments. Demographics gonna demo...
    ..and in OSU's case they are "The Ohio State University"

  10. #410
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    I don’t believe ACC broadcast contracts run through 2036, but rather that the schools have committed whatever their revenue from such broadcasts may be through 2036. An important distinction.
    as others have noted, the contract definitely runs through 2036. It will either be great for ESPN if rights values do continue to increase, or great for the ACC if the ACC fades to obscurity on the football front.

    I'm sure ESPN is just licking their chops for the Wake Forest, Pittsburgh ACC championship game...
    basketball is back, baby!

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I agree with this whole post but especially the quoted sentence. The schools added little to the league and diluted its character.
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    But assured its existence. The eight or nine-team ACC would be out of business today as a major conference. More schools and larger viewer footprints were necessary for the massive TV contracts. Were the media companies wrong to focus on "number of schools" and "footprints" -- possibly, but they were the ones handing out the moola.
    Wouldn't want something as intangible as character to interfere with backing up the money truck.

  12. #412
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    as others have noted, the contract definitely runs through 2036. It will either be great for ESPN if rights values do continue to increase, or great for the ACC if the ACC fades to obscurity on the football front.

    I'm sure ESPN is just licking their chops for the Wake Forest, Pittsburgh ACC championship game...
    Thank you both for the correction.

    Thatís insanely stupid.
       

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Im4howdy View Post
    ..and in OSU's case they are "The Ohio State University"
    right, and so is Penn State...but are you arguing the point that in effect, that OSO and PSU are NOT "the university of" those states? Are you arguing FOR Ohio U and Penn as the flagships?
    GREATEST SERIES END EPISODES EVER? !
    NOT MASH: either Burn Notice or The Americans.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    True, but false.

    My interest has zero to do with demographics. I just want to see a game between good teams. Much like Duke/UNC - people want to watch excellence independent of markets, fan bases, population centers, media markets.

    Colin Cowherd gets this wrong. He insists no one wants to watch Boise State in big games.

    you totally missed my point. YOUR interest has nothing to do with demographics...directly. Your interest is because they are long time powers and a great rivalry. THAT IS FULLY GROUNDED IN THE MAJOR DEMOGRAPHIC ADVANTAGES BOTH SCHOOLS HAVE AND HAVE HAD for many decades. I mean, your interest is fine, but your interest is not the point. The point is that both schools put 100 thousand people - that live nearby and grew up close to and who attended those schools - into a stadium eight games a year, and that is the tip of the iceberg of the mammoth money and publicity machines those football programs are. Now THATS what I call demographics.
    GREATEST SERIES END EPISODES EVER? !
    NOT MASH: either Burn Notice or The Americans.

  15. #415
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    you totally missed my point. YOUR interest has nothing to do with demographics...directly. Your interest is because they are long time powers and a great rivalry. THAT IS FULLY GROUNDED IN THE MAJOR DEMOGRAPHIC ADVANTAGES BOTH SCHOOLS HAVE AND HAVE HAD for many decades. I mean, your interest is fine, but your interest is not the point. The point is that both schools put 100 thousand people - that live nearby and grew up close to and who attended those schools - into a stadium eight games a year, and that is the tip of the iceberg of the mammoth money and publicity machines those football programs are. Now THATS what I call demographics.
    A little less lecturing and a little more good humor would be appreciated by your partners here -- your fellow DBR posters.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  16. #416
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    A little less lecturing and a little more good humor would be appreciated by your partners here -- your fellow DBR posters.
    Agreed
       

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    you totally missed my point. YOUR interest has nothing to do with demographics...directly. Your interest is because they are long time powers and a great rivalry. THAT IS FULLY GROUNDED IN THE MAJOR DEMOGRAPHIC ADVANTAGES BOTH SCHOOLS HAVE AND HAVE HAD for many decades. I mean, your interest is fine, but your interest is not the point. The point is that both schools put 100 thousand people - that live nearby and grew up close to and who attended those schools - into a stadium eight games a year, and that is the tip of the iceberg of the mammoth money and publicity machines those football programs are. Now THATS what I call demographics.
    Well, my interest is exactly my point. But thanks for explaining what your point is.

    I want to watch quality basketball or football. I don't care where it comes from, school-wise or market-wise.

    My bigger point is that the ACC got lost following the Colin Cowherd rabbit hole of markets and demographics over quality of sport. I'd be substantially happier (and the ACC would be more stable) of the conference had prioritized, say, UCONN and Butler basketball. Or, Cincinnati and UCF football.

    People aren't tuning in for middling sports in big market places. They aren't buying ACC network to watch Pitt/Miami basketball. They want to watch good competition.

    We chased TV markets, and TV is less and less of a factor with each passing year.

    Anyway, I'll sit back and let you explain how I am misunderstanding my own point again.
       

  18. #418
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    People aren't tuning in for middling sports in big market places. They aren't buying ACC network to watch Pitt/Miami basketball. They want to watch good competition.

    We chased TV markets, and TV is less and less of a factor with each passing year.
    Agree 100%.

    And further proof of your point, the largest cable network in the country (Comcast) does not carry the ACCN.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...stem_operators

    So not only is it a bad plan, it has not even been executed well. If the 19.355 million Comcast households somehow want to watch BC play Louisville for some reason, they have to go through a lot of extra steps and expenses to do so.
    Birds arenít real. Do your own research!

  19. #419
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    Hope Cutcliffe does Duke a favor and negotiate a retirement package. He will not be helping the program by staying Head Coach until 2022 Season is over. It would be nice to go out with a win. Don't think we will make the plays and reduce the mistakes to get a Win Saturday. Would be happy to be wrong.Very disappointing Duke Women's soccer did not get a win with home field advantage. Robbie Church is overdue for a National Championship.

  20. #420
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    I wish that my pal Mr. JD King (front page) had not repeated the canard of Cut's loyalty when he could have gone to Tennessee. As we have clarified many, many times here (recently) Cut would have been gone had he been allowed to bring all his assistants, but Tennessee wouldn't let him. So he stayed because of that.

    I should (and will) emphasize that I wouldn't have begrudged him had he chosen to leave, that's the way the world of coaching goes. But the loyalty angle has been misrepresented all too often.

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