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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Why would they not be a "big deal?" I have a neighbor, fully vaxxed teacher. Contracted COVID in September and didn't go to the hospital, but was laid up for ten days at home.

    Who doesn't think it's a "big deal?"
    Could be anyone who believes in the vaccine efficacy (in terms of serious illness), and/or would consider your neighbor's experience unfortunate but anomalous. An acceptable risk, in other words. I think the behavior of the broader population these days indicates that a fairly broad swath fall into this camp. Again, not saying that is right or wrong. But am a bit surprised that you seem surprised by the notion.

  2. #22
    This bodes well for their commitments.

    #kyrie #thebrotherhood

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    Could be anyone who believes in the vaccine efficacy (in terms of serious illness), and/or would consider your neighbor's experience unfortunate but anomalous. An acceptable risk, in other words. I think the behavior of the broader population these days indicates that a fairly broad swath fall into this camp. Again, not saying that is right or wrong. But am a bit surprised that you seem surprised by the notion.
    I am surprised by the notion that people who are fine with the idea of vaccine requirements and/or negative test results would not be concerned about masks requirements.

    Breakthrough cases happen. That doesn't mean vaccines aren't mostly effective. Masks help reduce transmission of any cases.

    Would you wax half your car? Would you get security cameras for two of your four doors to your house?

    Why do partial measures?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I am surprised by the notion that people who are fine with the idea of vaccine requirements and/or negative test results would not be concerned about masks requirements.

    Breakthrough cases happen. That doesn't mean vaccines aren't mostly effective. Masks help reduce transmission of any cases.

    Would you wax half your car? Would you get security cameras for two of your four doors to your house?

    Why do partial measures?
    Because many believe the vaccines are enough. And that the additional protection offered by masks is incremental at best. So in your analogy, vaccines are more like waxing 95% of your car. Why is this so hard to understand?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    Because many believe the vaccines are enough. And that the additional protection offered by masks is incremental at best. So in your analogy, vaccines are more like waxing 95% of your car. Why is this so hard to understand?
    If there were any scientifically and medically reliable authorities supporting your assumption that vaccines are perpetually 95% effective in protecting against breakthrough COVID infections and preventing transmission of the virus, your position would not be difficult to understand. But I have not seen any such studies. So as long as I'm interacting regularly with my unvaccinated grandchildren, and believe that other people are equally concerned about protecting themselves as well as their family members and friends, I'll respect the threat of those continuing risks and use face coverings when indoors with people outside my bubble. Feel free to call me "overabundantly cautious" if you think this practice excessive.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Gator View Post
    If there were any scientifically and medically reliable authorities supporting your assumption that vaccines are perpetually 95% effective in protecting against breakthrough COVID infections and preventing transmission of the virus, your position would not be difficult to understand. But I have not seen any such studies. So as long as I'm interacting regularly with my unvaccinated grandchildren, and believe that other people are equally concerned about protecting themselves as well as their family members and friends, I'll respect the threat of those continuing risks and use face coverings when indoors with people outside my bubble. Feel free to call me "overabundantly cautious" if you think this practice excessive.
    To be clear, itís not my position. I was simply trying to explain the mindset of those that hold it. I happen to not be doctrinaire in either direction, and instead see it as very much of a YMMV issue at this stage.

    FWIW, your approach makes total sense to me, given those family dynamics and (what I understand to be) your age. But I also donít think one needs to believe vaccines are 95% effective in perpetuity to have substantially more confidence in - and comfort from - them than wearing a mask.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    To be clear, itís not my position. I was simply trying to explain the mindset of those that hold it. I happen to not be doctrinaire in either direction, and instead see it as very much of a YMMV issue at this stage.

    FWIW, your approach makes total sense to me, given those family dynamics and (what I understand to be) your age. But I also donít think one needs to believe vaccines are 95% effective in perpetuity to have substantially more confidence in - and comfort from - them than wearing a mask.
    If this isn't your opinion, why do you keep trying to make me look like an idiot by saying "why don't you understand?"

    Keeping with the car analogy, isn't it more like saying "I'm not going to wear my seatbelt because my brakes usually work?"

    Again, there are those who don't believe/trust the science. They don't want vaccines/masks or to wash their hands.

    If Duke is attempting to set a high bar for safety and health, why would they NOT require masks on top of vaccines/tests?

    Please refrain from being baffled at my lack of understanding and just write it out.

    Thanks.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    If this isn't your opinion, why do you keep trying to make me look like an idiot by saying "why don't you understand?"

    Keeping with the car analogy, isn't it more like saying "I'm not going to wear my seatbelt because my brakes usually work?"

    Again, there are those who don't believe/trust the science. They don't want vaccines/masks or to wash their hands.

    If Duke is attempting to set a high bar for safety and health, why would they NOT require masks on top of vaccines/tests?

    Please refrain from being baffled at my lack of understanding and just write it out.

    Thanks.
    Because the seat belt analogy isn't really accurate here. Fully vaccinated people with healthy immune systems have a very tiny chance of becoming severely ill from COVID. This isn't wearing a seatbelt, this is stringing your house full of burglary alarms and glass-break detectors in every room. If you're in a truly terrible neighborhood, that extreme caution might be warranted (unvaccinated people). If you're in an average neighborhood, you're probably fine with locking your doors. Given the added stress and discomfort of masks, many of us are ready to take our chances. Personally, I would prefer that everyone continues to wear a mask until we have a vaccine plan for young children, but I know I won't be wearing a mask for the rest of my life.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Heaven's Guardian View Post
    Because the seat belt analogy isn't really accurate here. Fully vaccinated people with healthy immune systems have a very tiny chance of becoming severely ill from COVID. This isn't wearing a seatbelt, this is stringing your house full of burglary alarms and glass-break detectors in every room. If you're in a truly terrible neighborhood, that extreme caution might be warranted (unvaccinated people). If you're in an average neighborhood, you're probably fine with locking your doors. Given the added stress and discomfort of masks, many of us are ready to take our chances. Personally, I would prefer that everyone continues to wear a mask until we have a vaccine plan for young children, but I know I won't be wearing a mask for the rest of my life.
    I clearly don't intend to wear one for the rest of my life too.

    Alabama's football stadium is packed with who knows what - no masks, no vaccine checks, no tests. Good for them.

    Duke has bern setting a higher bar, by all accounts. No fans last year. Women's team cancelled play for safety reasons.

    Why would the administration do half measures?

    Sorry, I don't think this is an "obvious" question or I'm being dense. I'm sorry my small mind can't see these obvious answers that some of you seem to have.

    Perhaps someone else has a more compassionate answer to my question that doesn't involve trying to make me feel stupid?

    I'll take my answer off the air.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I clearly don't intend to wear one for the rest of my life too.

    Alabama's football stadium is packed with who knows what - no masks, no vaccine checks, no tests. Good for them.

    Duke has bern setting a higher bar, by all accounts. No fans last year. Women's team cancelled play for safety reasons.

    Why would the administration do half measures?

    Sorry, I don't think this is an "obvious" question or I'm being dense. I'm sorry my small mind can't see these obvious answers that some of you seem to have.

    Perhaps someone else has a more compassionate answer to my question that doesn't involve trying to make me feel stupid?

    I'll take my answer off the air.
    Just shot you a PM

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I clearly don't intend to wear one for the rest of my life too.

    Alabama's football stadium is packed with who knows what - no masks, no vaccine checks, no tests. Good for them.

    Duke has bern setting a higher bar, by all accounts. No fans last year. Women's team cancelled play for safety reasons.

    Why would the administration do half measures?

    Sorry, I don't think this is an "obvious" question or I'm being dense. I'm sorry my small mind can't see these obvious answers that some of you seem to have.

    Perhaps someone else has a more compassionate answer to my question that doesn't involve trying to make me feel stupid?

    I'll take my answer off the air.
    I just became a parent. For the first two months of my boy's life, I was pretty cautious. We tried to avoid being indoors too long, we tried to avoid too many guests, etc. And this wasn't because of COVID; this was because of pertussis (whooping cough). Our pedestrian told us to be cautious because pertussis is devastating for infants. Once he got that DTaP vaccine, we got the green light from the pedestrian to change our behavior. And we did change. We went out to restaurants. We went to stores. We had guests galore. From talking to parents pre and post COVID, this is the norm.

    But, truth be told, DTaP breakthrough cases also happen with children. That doesn't stop the parents from changing behavior.

    Now, COVID is much more prevalent and much more top of mind than pertussis. But that "vaccine means I get to change my behavior" is still there and absolutely impacts federal, local, and indoor mandates. Vaccine + mask is certainly the best, but many, kinda like the pertussis example, feel that a vaccine is good enough.

    And in full disclosure, whether it's right or wrong, I think a vaccine is good enough. But I'm not going to argue with anyone who wants me to wear a mask; I'll just wear one if it's required.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    Just shot you a PM
    Sporks for decorum and taking the conversation to PM. Respect.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I just became a parent. For the first two months of my boy's life, I was pretty cautious. We tried to avoid being indoors too long, we tried to avoid too many guests, etc. And this wasn't because of COVID; this was because of pertussis (whooping cough). Our pedestrian told us to be cautious because pertussis is devastating for infants. Once he got that DTaP vaccine, we got the green light from the pedestrian to change our behavior. And we did change. We went out to restaurants. We went to stores. We had guests galore. From talking to parents pre and post COVID, this is the norm.

    But, truth be told, DTaP breakthrough cases also happen with children. That doesn't stop the parents from changing behavior.

    Now, COVID is much more prevalent and much more top of mind than pertussis. But that "vaccine means I get to change my behavior" is still there and absolutely impacts federal, local, and indoor mandates. Vaccine + mask is certainly the best, but many, kinda like the pertussis example, feel that a vaccine is good enough.

    And in full disclosure, whether it's right or wrong, I think a vaccine is good enough. But I'm not going to argue with anyone who wants me to wear a mask; I'll just wear one if it's required.
    Congrats on becoming a parent, but I'm not sure I would trust the advice of my pedestrian.

    I'm sure I am overreacting. And I know that even if there were a mask mandate in Cameron, people would be eating and drinking, and their masks would be off 70% of the time anyway. I'm probably tilting at windmills.

    To me, being inside with 9,314 people unmasked who are screaming and yelling and cheering to victory seems irresponsible. I'm apparently in the minority.

    Let's go Duke!

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Congrats on becoming a parent, but I'm not sure I would trust the advice of my pedestrian.

    I'm sure I am overreacting. And I know that even if there were a mask mandate in Cameron, people would be eating and drinking, and their masks would be off 70% of the time anyway. I'm probably tilting at windmills.

    To me, being inside with 9,314 people unmasked who are screaming and yelling and cheering to victory seems irresponsible. I'm apparently in the minority.

    Let's go Duke!
    Pedestrians are clearly more qualified than pediatricians.

    They are also easier to spell...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Congrats on becoming a parent, but I'm not sure I would trust the advice of my pedestrian.

    I'm sure I am overreacting. And I know that even if there were a mask mandate in Cameron, people would be eating and drinking, and their masks would be off 70% of the time anyway. I'm probably tilting at windmills.

    To me, being inside with 9,314 people unmasked who are screaming and yelling and cheering to victory seems irresponsible. I'm apparently in the minority.

    Let's go Duke!
    Maybe minority, but not tiny minority. I think it's a combination of "vaccines are good enough" argument and pandemic exhaustion. Also, maybe the student testing at Duke is good enough to mitigate mask wearing (I assume students are still being tested?).
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Pedestrians are clearly more qualified than pediatricians.

    They are also easier to spell...
    1. I dunno. You may want to walk that back.

    2. Auto-correct is very good at spelling the wrong word right.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Maybe minority, but not tiny minority. I think it's a combination of "vaccines are good enough" argument and pandemic exhaustion. Also, maybe the student testing at Duke is good enough to mitigate mask wearing (I assume students are still being tested?).
    every week. though there are hiccups there...like the notification comes out in the morning that you have to be tested TODAY, and if you don't get your test done by the time most of them close (4pm) then they disable your duke card so you can't eat or get into your dorm.

    Because apparently giving a days warning was too much...

    https://www.dukechronicle.com/articl...tions-shut-off
    https://www.dukechronicle.com/articl...1-pm-confusion

    (fortunately, their system for disabling duke cards seems to work about as well as the rest of the logistics...)

    /rant
    basketball is back, baby!

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Congrats on becoming a parent, but I'm not sure I would trust the advice of my pedestrian.

    I'm sure I am overreacting. And I know that even if there were a mask mandate in Cameron, people would be eating and drinking, and their masks would be off 70% of the time anyway. I'm probably tilting at windmills.

    To me, being inside with 9,314 people unmasked who are screaming and yelling and cheering to victory seems irresponsible. I'm apparently in the minority.

    Let's go Duke!
    As someone who is triple-jabbed, I am still a bit anxious about the games. I am planning on going Saturday and I plan to wear a mask. I will probably STILL wear a mask even if the mandate goes away. There are always those who are going to find a way to sneak around the system. THOSE are the ones I worry about being exposed to.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Congrats on becoming a parent, but I'm not sure I would trust the advice of my pedestrian.

    I'm sure I am overreacting. And I know that even if there were a mask mandate in Cameron, people would be eating and drinking, and their masks would be off 70% of the time anyway. I'm probably tilting at windmills.

    To me, being inside with 9,314 people unmasked who are screaming and yelling and cheering to victory seems irresponsible. I'm apparently in the minority.

    Let's go Duke!
    Minority or not, your perspective is one that I share. We're presently planning to attend most home games in Cameron this season, and I am hopeful that fans in the upper level will comply with the masking requirement out of respect for the fact that many of our fellow Crusties seated around them are likely to be in a particularly vulnerable group. In any event, although we are fully vaccinated -- and in fact we're scheduled to receive our Moderna half-dose booster shots later today -- we will adhere to the same practice that we maintained during football games at the Swamp this fall: Wear our N95 masks throughout the game, try to postpone any refreshments or bathroom visits until after we've exited the building, and say a silent prayer that we are fortunate enough to avoid contracting the virus. I'd much rather be ridiculed than take the risk of being responsible for causing other members of my family to become sick.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by aimo View Post
    As someone who is triple-jabbed, I am still a bit anxious about the games. I am planning on going Saturday and I plan to wear a mask. I will probably STILL wear a mask even if the mandate goes away. There are always those who are going to find a way to sneak around the system. THOSE are the ones I worry about being exposed to.
    Triple-jabbed here as of Saturday. Still shaking off the effects.

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