Succession Season 3 Discussion

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

^ I'm looking for some Cousin Greg breakthrough too, as unlikely as that might seem.

I don't think he has any leverage left to make a move. If the DOJ has really moved on, what's his play?

[Skydog]

They need to do something with the plot ASAP. Because this is becoming a show about a family of sorry humans who entertain themselves with their endless bickering and posturing. Their only redeeming quality is the sharp wit of their verbal attacks on each other but beyond that, what’s the point? The show was better early on when at least one stakeholder (Shiv) was attempting to pull the family/Waystar toward the light, Gerri seemed to be a voice of reason, and both Ken and Roman seemed to be possibly redeemable. But now that they are all just a shxxshow of a morally bankrupt family - where is the tension? Tom hasn’t grown a spine and Greg has morphed from a naive, mortified outsider to becoming just one more of the same. So is there anyone or any thing left to root for? Or is it becoming Billions II where the characters all turn into a homogeneous soup of soulless individuals who spend their lives in a masturabatory pursuit of pointless power?

IOW, when all the participants have proven themselves to be worthless human beings - why should I care who wins? Or am I overreacting?

[JasonEvans]

They need to do something with the plot ASAP. Because this is becoming a show about a family of sorry humans who entertain themselves with their endless bickering and posturing. Their only redeeming quality is the sharp wit of their verbal attacks on each other but beyond that, what’s the point? The show was better early on when at least one stakeholder (Shiv) was attempting to pull the family/Waystar toward the light, Gerri seemed to be a voice of reason, and both Ken and Roman seemed to be possibly redeemable. But now that they are all just a shxxshow of a morally bankrupt family - where is the tension? Tom hasn’t grown a spine and Greg has morphed from a naive, mortified outsider to becoming just one more of the same. So is there anyone or any thing left to root for? Or is it becoming Billions II where the characters all turn into a homogeneous soup of soulless individuals who spend their lives in a masturabatory pursuit of pointless power?

IOW, when all the participants have proven themselves to be worthless human beings - why should I care who wins? Or am I overreacting?

This feels quite similar to the point I made about 4 weeks ago: https://forums.dukebasketballreport...97#post1418297

[weezie]

... Shiv got laid out by her mom...

Shiv gave as good as she got. That was probably the best acting sequence of the entire series between those two. Very well written. Shiv has been irritating and whiny but that scene was perfect.


I am predicting that Kendall has made a backdoor deal with Mattson to become the head of the Gojo (sic) "equal partners" merger with Royco.

Ken will sashay into the meeting with a faint grin.

[JasonEvans]

I am predicting that Kendall has made a backdoor deal with Mattson to become the head of the Gojo (sic) "equal partners" merger with Royco.

Ken will sashay into the meeting with a faint grin.

I would love that. I want to see Ken taking a bit more control of his situation.

But, the end of the last episode does not seem to jive with Ken being part of a clever plan... or really any plan.

[bundabergdevil]

This feels quite similar to the point I made about 4 weeks ago: https://forums.dukebasketballreport...97#post1418297

Four weeks ago I would have disagreed but now I agree. All the plot drivers teed up this season(Kendall’s attack, the DOJ investigation, the shareholder meeting, etc) haven’t materially led to a change in any of the main characters’ positions. I thought they would. If the GoJo deal doesn’t go anywhere…


I like Logan’s brutal education of his children though. His philosophy ain’t wrong. Life can be a knife fight in the mud sometimes.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Four weeks ago I would have disagreed but now I agree. All the plot drivers teed up this season(Kendall’s attack, the DOJ investigation, the shareholder meeting, etc) haven’t materially led to a change in any of the main characters’ positions. I thought they would. If the GoJo deal doesn’t go anywhere…


I like Logan’s brutal education of his children though. His philosophy ain’t wrong. Life can be a knife fight in the mud sometimes.

I mean, every character has been more pronounced this season. Roman grew up fast and then crapped it all away. Shiv got too full of herself and pushed too many of the wrong buttons and was sidelined. Ken tried to rise above the fray and was brought back to earth. Even Connor had his moments of moral turpitude this season.

They are poopy kids. This season they each have attempted to become something more, and have been humiliated. At least Connor's humiliation has nothing to do with business and everything to do with Willa.

The way I see it, each child has had their time in the sun, and proven to have massive personal flaws - Kendall can't finish, Shiv is too eager, Roman - initially his weakness was his inexperience, but now he's conquered that and shown himself to be quite savvy, but he can't, well, be a normal human when he needs to be. And Connor has zero ability to connect with anyone ever.

The true show starts now. They've all shown they are flawed. Who will learn, rise above, or at least have humility so they can get the top job?

I found Tom a repulsive character for the first two seasons. This season he was far more interesting. He seems primed for... something.

Greg - he's been taken for granted all this season. But he seems fully expendable at this point. I'm not sure how he ends up relevant going forward.

I still say the battle of wits between Gerri and Shiv might be next week. And if so, I expect Siobhan to get annihilated. Shiv's been out of her league all season, trying to stay relevant and stepping on toes. I suspect she stepped on the wrong toes at the end of that episode. Gerri is the one who told Roman "always be positioning yourself for the future." Gerri is at least three steps ahead of Shiv.

[Furniture]

I
I still say the battle of wits between Gerri and Shiv might be next week. And if so, I expect Siobhan to get annihilated. Shiv's been out of her league all season, trying to stay relevant and stepping on toes. I suspect she stepped on the wrong toes at the end of that episode. Gerri is the one who told Roman "always be positioning yourself for the future." Gerri is at least three steps ahead of Shiv.

I think Shiv really put Gerri into a corner with the D picgate. If Gerri doesn’t report Roman she is screwed and if she does Roman is screwed.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think Shiv really put Gerri into a corner with the D picgate. If Gerri doesn’t report Roman she is screwed and if she does Roman is screwed.

I disagree. I think that's the bullrush from Shiv trying to get Roman out of the way. Gerri is ahead of everyone. Maybe it is as simple as some information on Shiv, but I suspect it's something much more intelligent.

I'll be disappointed if Gerri ends up in the dumpster next episode.

I suspect that Shiv will be wildly disappointed from the fallout of this particular, um, indiscretion. Clearly Logan isn't particular about people's sexual peccadillos. Sure he will be sour on Roman for a bit, but I don't see him moving Roman outside. And once Logan considers how much information Gerri likely has on absolutely everyone, I think he will reconsider his desire to dump her.

That leaves Shiv incredibly frustrated.

[bundabergdevil]

I mean, every character has been more pronounced this season. Roman grew up fast and then crapped it all away. Shiv got too full of herself and pushed too many of the wrong buttons and was sidelined. Ken tried to rise above the fray and was brought back to earth. Even Connor had his moments of moral turpitude this season.

They are poopy kids. This season they each have attempted to become something more, and have been humiliated. At least Connor's humiliation has nothing to do with business and everything to do with Willa.

The way I see it, each child has had their time in the sun, and proven to have massive personal flaws - Kendall can't finish, Shiv is too eager, Roman - initially his weakness was his inexperience, but now he's conquered that and shown himself to be quite savvy, but he can't, well, be a normal human when he needs to be. And Connor has zero ability to connect with anyone ever.

The true show starts now. They've all shown they are flawed. Who will learn, rise above, or at least have humility so they can get the top job?

I found Tom a repulsive character for the first two seasons. This season he was far more interesting. He seems primed for... something.

Greg - he's been taken for granted all this season. But he seems fully expendable at this point. I'm not sure how he ends up relevant going forward.

I still say the battle of wits between Gerri and Shiv might be next week. And if so, I expect Siobhan to get annihilated. Shiv's been out of her league all season, trying to stay relevant and stepping on toes. I suspect she stepped on the wrong toes at the end of that episode. Gerri is the one who told Roman "always be positioning yourself for the future." Gerri is at least three steps ahead of Shiv.

Well, guess you’re not getting that “con-head” shirt in your stocking then!

[JasonEvans]

I don't see how Gerri can beat Shiv. When Logan heard that Roman had been sending dick picks to Gerri for months, essentially committing terrible sexual harrasment, his reaction was to say, "Well, I guess we need to fire Gerri." Logan may be a wretched human being and an even worse father, but he is somehow pretty darn loyal to his kids (except Kendall, who turned on Logan first).

[Furniture]

I disagree. I think that's the bullrush from Shiv trying to get Roman out of the way.

Yes, you may well be correct. What I meant to say was that because of Shiv’s manipulation of the situation Gerri will now have to chose between herself and Roman and I do think Shiv would prefer Gerri to Roman.

[mkirsh]

Pretty rough piece on Jeremy Strong in the New Yorker, but gives some color to his portrayal of Kendall. That said, the thought of him going method and staying in character as Kendall is nightmare fuel. (Although it is hilarious to imagine the entire cast staying in character at all times - Kieran Culken sending the director d*** pics; Brian Cox telling everyone to F*** Off, Sarah Snook bullying Matthew Macfayden who is bullying Nicholas Braun, etc).

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...t-get-the-joke

[Billy Dat]

Pretty rough piece on Jeremy Strong in the New Yorker, but gives some color to his portrayal of Kendall. That said, the thought of him going method and staying in character as Kendall is nightmare fuel. (Although it is hilarious to imagine the entire cast staying in character at all times - Kieran Culken sending the director d*** pics; Brian Cox telling everyone to F*** Off, Sarah Snook bullying Matthew Macfayden who is bullying Nicholas Braun, etc).

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...t-get-the-joke

It definitely isn't flattering. You can tell when a profile writer thinks the subject is sympathetic and I certainly didn't feel a lot of it coming through the pages. My take after reading it is that Strong knew from a very young age that he wanted to be a great actor, but not one relegated to the stage. His heroes were Day Lewis, Pacino and Hoffman and he basically did whatever he had to do to get into their specific orbits, literally. As a working class kid whose parents moved him to a wealthier town for better schools, he also knew the power of the show of wealth...thus his limited wardrobe that consisted of very high end items - kind of fake it until you make it. I got the impression of someone who truly loves acting, but also someone with a single-minded focus to do whatever he had to do to succeed, especially social climbing and the most methody method acting prep.

[bundabergdevil]

It definitely isn't flattering. You can tell when a profile writer thinks the subject is sympathetic and I certainly didn't feel a lot of it coming through the pages. My take after reading it is that Strong knew from a very young age that he wanted to be a great actor, but not one relegated to the stage. His heroes were Day Lewis, Pacino and Hoffman and he basically did whatever he had to do to get into their specific orbits, literally. As a working class kid whose parents moved him to a wealthier town for better schools, he also knew the power of the show of wealth...thus his limited wardrobe that consisted of very high end items - kind of fake it until you make it. I got the impression of someone who truly loves acting, but also someone with a single-minded focus to do whatever he had to do to succeed, especially social climbing and the most methody method acting prep.

Yeah, the author found their hook and dug in. Unless he does something much worse than rub a few people the wrong way with how he works, I’m just going to enjoy his acting and let the man be.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Several actors and other Hollywood folks who have worked with Strong have spoken out on his behalf since this piece was written. I found it a bit odd that the author had known him in college twenty years ago - could suggest an axe to grind.

It certainly wasn't a hit piece, but it wasn't terribly flattering.

He's certainly the most serious actor on the show. I've seen the cast without him on shows, which sort of confirms some of the suggestions in the article.

Personally, I think his acting is phenomenal. He doesn't get the light-hearted moments most of the other actors get. When I have seen him interviewed about Succession, he isn't as jovial and has a much more serious take on his character and the show.

His character carries so much tragedy. He rarely articulates his self-doubt (birthday party notwithstanding) but you can see it in his face.

I think Jeremy Strong is absolutely the actor for this role, and the entire cast really works in this show.

Lots of actors are a little cuckoo and think highly of themselves. He's just... another one.

[bundabergdevil]

Several actors and other Hollywood folks who have worked with Strong have spoken out on his behalf since this piece was written. I found it a bit odd that the author had known him in college twenty years ago - could suggest an axe to grind.

It certainly wasn't a hit piece, but it wasn't terribly flattering.

He's certainly the most serious actor on the show. I've seen the cast without him on shows, which sort of confirms some of the suggestions in the article.

Personally, I think his acting is phenomenal. He doesn't get the light-hearted moments most of the other actors get. When I have seen him interviewed about Succession, he isn't as jovial and has a much more serious take on his character and the show.

His character carries so much tragedy. He rarely articulates his self-doubt (birthday party notwithstanding) but you can see it in his face.

I think Jeremy Strong is absolutely the actor for this role, and the entire cast really works in this show.

Lots of actors are a little cuckoo and think highly of themselves. He's just... another one.

Nice post and you bring up a good point with regard to his character in relation to the others. His character is NOT in a comedy. He's a recovering addict, a manic depressive, and he let a boy drown chasing drugs. At the same time, he has some moral compass, understands that the source of his wealth has had negative impacts on the world and battles with it. Sure, he does some cringeworthy things that are good for a laugh but while the show can be satirical the portion that Ken occupies is not a comedy.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Nice post and you bring up a good point with regard to his character in relation to the others. His character is NOT in a comedy. He's a recovering addict, a manic depressive, and he let a boy drown chasing drugs. At the same time, he has some moral compass, understands that the source of his wealth has had negative impacts on the world and battles with it. Sure, he does some cringeworthy things that are good for a laugh but while the show can be satirical the portion that Ken occupies is not a comedy.

Yes. He has some amusing lines, but they are mostly said in earnest.

His character is the tragic hero of his own story - always getting so close and then knocked out of his seat. In the greater story of the show, his tragedy is clear, but not the "hero" element.

And while he clearly gets submarined by family members repeatedly, he also absolutely sinks himself over and over.

It would seem to be an excruciating role to play.

Astonishing to read that article and imagine him playing Roman. I can't begin...

[Bostondevil]

Several actors and other Hollywood folks who have worked with Strong have spoken out on his behalf since this piece was written. I found it a bit odd that the author had known him in college twenty years ago - could suggest an axe to grind.

It certainly wasn't a hit piece, but it wasn't terribly flattering.

He's certainly the most serious actor on the show. I've seen the cast without him on shows, which sort of confirms some of the suggestions in the article.

Personally, I think his acting is phenomenal. He doesn't get the light-hearted moments most of the other actors get. When I have seen him interviewed about Succession, he isn't as jovial and has a much more serious take on his character and the show.

His character carries so much tragedy. He rarely articulates his self-doubt (birthday party notwithstanding) but you can see it in his face.

I think Jeremy Strong is absolutely the actor for this role, and the entire cast really works in this show.

Lots of actors are a little cuckoo and think highly of themselves. He's just... another one.

While true, most of the ones I know that think highly of themselves are riddled with self doubt at the same time. To continue as an actor, you have to both believe in your talents and cope with being told no over and over and over again. It's a weird dichotomy. It's probably what makes a lot of us cuckoo.

(I had an audition last night that I absolutely crushed. I still probably won't get the role.)

[bundabergdevil]

Apropos of the discussion above, there have been a lot of articles in my feed recently about James Gandolfini and what a difficult and troubled (though loved) presence he was on the set of The Sopranos. It also talks about what he went through to play Tony Soprano.

Observe:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/playing-t...110700464.html