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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    The Nets were outscored for the season with Kyrie off the court last year, which wasn't true for anyone else on the team. They also appeared to be on their way to an NBA title, even with Harden out, before Kyrie got hurt, and they were the preseason favorites this year, before Kyrie's absence. Not many players in the history of the NBA have put up 50/40/90 shooting percentage numbers on over 26 ppg like he did last year, his turnover numbers were low like they always are, and he played excellent defense. Plus, he's averaged 28 ppg in the NBA Finals in his career, with a pretty iconic shot. I think the Nets' first choice would still strongly be addition by addition with Kyrie. Unfortunately, Kyrie's stubbornness may force them into subtraction by subtraction.
    You make a pretty solid case — though I certainly was not doubting the basketball talent of Kyrie Irving. He is one of my all-time favorite players to watch.

    At this point, however, I believe the psychological damage and uncertainty that he is causing — and was consistently causing even well before his anti-vaccine stance was made public — outweighs whatever contributions he may or may not make on the court.

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    It’s called addition by subtraction. There were strong rumors of Brooklyn wanting to get rid of Irving after they had gotten Harden and then a short while later Irving went AWOL. His own head coach (Steve Nash) didn’t even know why he wasn’t with the team. Remember, this was long before any anti-vaccine sentiments had come out about him.

    And speaking of Nash, Irving poisoned the well with that situation before he had even coached a game by saying he didn’t think the Nets even needed a head coach. Talk about undermining Nash, my gosh. I don’t see how you ever truly get past a comment such as that.

    And now the Nets are paying him $18 million (give or take) for NOT playing. Yet even though the Nets have refused to go along with Irving’s plan to play the away games — though he is unable to play home games in NYC — the specter of him still hangs over the team. I think it’s a cancer that needs to be cut out.

    Maybe the Nets could find a team desperate enough for talent at the PG position that they would be willing to take the huge PR hit that trading for Irving would be. I think the Nets would jump at the opportunity to unload him, even if they only got a 50% return on the trade. Sometimes it’s better to just cut your losses and move on.
    I would be quite happy if the Nets just let Kyrie sit the whole season. Pay him, don't pay him, just don't cave to this nonsense.

    But if they were to trade him, I suggest OKC. Not only does that team stink, not only is that team in a small, out of the way media market, which would serve him right, but (and I haven't checked the vax stats) I suspect that the political environment in deep red Oklahoma vis-a-vis Covid vaccinations would be . . . accepting of Kyrie's stance. I could be wrong.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I would be quite happy if the Nets just let Kyrie sit the whole season. Pay him, don't pay him, just don't cave to this nonsense.

    But if they were to trade him, I suggest OKC. Not only does that team stink, not only is that team in a small, out of the way media market, which would serve him right, but (and I haven't checked the vax stats) I suspect that the political environment in deep red Oklahoma vis-a-vis Covid vaccinations would be . . . accepting of Kyrie's stance. I could be wrong.
    I think literally EVERY team would accept his stance except for those in SF, LA, and NYC. Those are the only three cities with this mandate is my understanding. Bradley Beal is in deep blue Washington DC but is still allowed to play. Kyrie wouldn't need to go to Oklahoma for that to occur and fans/team ownership/management would look past it given his on court contributions, no doubt...

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I would be quite happy if the Nets just let Kyrie sit the whole season. Pay him, don't pay him, just don't cave to this nonsense.

    But if they were to trade him, I suggest OKC. Not only does that team stink, not only is that team in a small, out of the way media market, which would serve him right, but (and I haven't checked the vax stats) I suspect that the political environment in deep red Oklahoma vis-a-vis Covid vaccinations would be . . . accepting of Kyrie's stance. I could be wrong.
    There is zero chance Kyrie would play for a bad team. What is there left for him to accomplish on the basketball court other than winning another ring?

    People are losing sight of something very simple and powerful at work here: Kyrie, when healthy, is a winning basketball player. He makes great teams better and plays his best basketball when the stakes are the highest.

    There is no scenario I can think of where the Nets are better off just moving on from Kyrie. They want to win and if he ever gets back on the court with them, he will help them do that.

    Winning, as they say, cures everything.

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    There is zero chance Kyrie would play for a bad team. What is there left for him to accomplish on the basketball court other than winning another ring?

    People are losing sight of something very simple and powerful at work here: Kyrie, when healthy, is a winning basketball player. He makes great teams better and plays his best basketball when the stakes are the highest.

    There is no scenario I can think of where the Nets are better off just moving on from Kyrie. They want to win and if he ever gets back on the court with them, he will help them do that.

    Winning, as they say, cures everything.
    Yeah. that's the thing. There is a bit of a circus around him, and i'm sure teams WISH that baggage didn't exist, but on the large, it doesn't seem to significantly negatively impact the team.
    1200. DDMF.

  6. #226
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Yeah. that's the thing. There is a bit of a circus around him, and i'm sure teams WISH that baggage didn't exist, but on the large, it doesn't seem to significantly negatively impact the team.
    Are you sure? He didn't have near as much off-court baggage as a young player with the Cavs. His subsequent stops it appeared that his presence absolutely did negatively impact those teams (Boston for sure, and it sure seems like Brooklyn as well at this point).

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Vermont
    Back to the premise of the OP: no, I really don't think this circus is drawing in Duke to any meaningful extent. Too much other stuff going on.

  8. #228
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    There is zero chance Kyrie would play for a bad team. What is there left for him to accomplish on the basketball court other than winning another ring?

    People are losing sight of something very simple and powerful at work here: Kyrie, when healthy, is a winning basketball player. He makes great teams better and plays his best basketball when the stakes are the highest.

    There is no scenario I can think of where the Nets are better off just moving on from Kyrie. They want to win and if he ever gets back on the court with them, he will help them do that.

    Winning, as they say, cures everything.
    He can sit out and not get paid then. Fine with me. He can keep Ben Simmons company. These guys want all the benefits of a contract but none of the responsibilities that go with it. I say let em rot.

  9. #229
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    He can sit out and not get paid then. Fine with me. He can keep Ben Simmons company. These guys want all the benefits of a contract but none of the responsibilities that go with it. I say let em rot.
    FWIW I'm pretty sure Simmons is getting paid now (having reported mental health issues), he just missed the check for the first game where he was suspended. And of course Kyrie is still collecting away game checks.

  10. #230
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    FWIW I'm pretty sure Simmons is getting paid now (having reported mental health issues), he just missed the check for the first game where he was suspended. And of course Kyrie is still collecting away game checks.
    Yeah but in the hypothetical situation we're talking about, where Kyrie gets traded to OKC and he is eligible to play, and just doesn't want to play for a bad team like that so he decides to sit out, he wouldn't get paid.

  11. #231
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    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Yeah but in the hypothetical situation we're talking about, where Kyrie gets traded to OKC and he is eligible to play, and just doesn't want to play for a bad team like that so he decides to sit out, he wouldn't get paid.
    Oops, sorry, I did miss that context. No disagreement from me, then.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    I think literally EVERY team would accept his stance except for those in SF, LA, and NYC. Those are the only three cities with this mandate is my understanding. Bradley Beal is in deep blue Washington DC but is still allowed to play. Kyrie wouldn't need to go to Oklahoma for that to occur and fans/team ownership/management would look past it given his on court contributions, no doubt...
    But, by Kyrie's own words, it isn't about his own vaccine. It's about the voiceless unvaxxed losing jobs to mandates.

    Which is pants on head, sure. But if he goes the OKC and plays, how does he square that with his stance?

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    But, by Kyrie's own words, it isn't about his own vaccine. It's about the voiceless unvaxxed losing jobs to mandates.

    Which is pants on head, sure. But if he goes the OKC and plays, how does he square that with his stance?
    Of course Kyrie Irving is anti-vaccine. If he weren’t he would have already gotten the vaccine months ago and this would never have become an issue for him.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Yeah but in the hypothetical situation we're talking about, where Kyrie gets traded to OKC and he is eligible to play, and just doesn't want to play for a bad team like that so he decides to sit out, he wouldn't get paid.
    Yep. Kyrie would just retire instead of play for OKC. Which makes his trade value minimal.

    Kyrie is exercising his leverage, which is running plenty of people the wrong way. But it is the way of the world.

    I’ll stop posting in this thread now, so my final thought on this: who knows whether Kyrie will get his way in the end, but I suspect he will because (a) he is valuable enough to bend the organization to his will, and (b) we won’t lose his teammates along the way, for the reasons some of us discussed above.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    People are losing sight of something very simple and powerful at work here: Kyrie, when healthy, is a winning basketball player. He makes great teams better and plays his best basketball when the stakes are the highest.
    This is accurate to a degree, though definitely not completely true. I watched the entire Boston Celtics versus Milwaukee Bucks playoff series in the 2019 Eastern Conference semifinals and Irving played fairly poorly. He took a lot of shots and missed the vast majority of them, and he was an absolute sieve on defense. Most importantly, his leadership was sorely lacking — which was attested to by many professional observers of the NBA.

    In fact it got so bad and his ego was so out of control that he was purposely trying to guard Giannis Antetokounmpo — even though that was certainly not in the game plan. Predictably, Giannis torched him. He was definitely not a team player nor a winning player in that series.

    I had such high hopes when Boston traded for him and was extremely excited to see him in Celtics Green. Initially he played quite well and things were looking good, and then he hurt his knee and the whole thing fell apart. It was never the same again, even after he returned healthy. 😞

  16. #236
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Outside Philly
    Kyrie deservedly taking lots of heat for his continued silence.

    Is he a Kemetic? TBH, I’d never heard of it but his Twitter page got me marginally curious. I Wikipedia-ed it and still not sure I got a handle on it.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Kyrie deservedly taking lots of heat for his continued silence.
    Like this?

    https://sports.yahoo.com/kyrie-irvin...211238645.html

  18. #238
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    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Oh, wow, that's brutal. Hadn't seen it but plenty of talking heads chatter about his silence, too.

    Some people like to see just how deep of a hole they can dig themselves before trying to climb back out.

  19. #239
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    St Augustine, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by AtlBluRew View Post
    SNL had a pretty good suggestion for how to end this controversy last night early on in this skit.

    https://deadline.com/2021/10/snl-jas...an-1234861362/
    The whole skit was pretty funny, even the sneak vaccine. Even though funny, that's not a good way to end this controversy. It just trades one controversy for another.

  20. #240
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    WA State
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Kyrie deservedly taking lots of heat for his continued silence.

    Is he a Kemetic? TBH, I’d never heard of it but his Twitter page got me marginally curious. I Wikipedia-ed it and still not sure I got a handle on it.
    If I recall correctly - not always a given - Kyrie converted to Islam this past year. The Kemetic imagery seems to be more for marketing.

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