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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I still have nightmares about that game in which Jamison had a zillion pts against us and he barely handled the ball...putback after putback.
    I watched Jamison absolutely destroy my high school team in person. He was a man-child among, well, awkward teenagers. Was amazing.

  2. #62
    https://247sports.com/Article/Dereck...ate-166541091/

    Am I the only one on DBR who doesnít feel bad that UNC and Hubert Davis missed on young Mr. Lively?

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    https://247sports.com/Article/Dereck...ate-166541091/

    Am I the only one on DBR who doesnít feel bad that UNC and Hubert Davis missed on young Mr. Lively?
    We all grieve in our own ways...

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I still have nightmares about that game in which Jamison had a zillion pts against us and he barely handled the ball...putback after putback.
    What's really amazing is not that he scored 22 points and pulled down 18 rebounds in that 1998 ACC Tournament final against Duke, but that he did it while disabled with a pulled groin muscle and -- according to UNC lore -- two broken legs. Another one of those miraculous recoveries wrought by Dean's Magic Healing Dust.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Where are people getting the idea that Lively is a good outside shooter and likely to be an effective scorer as a freshman? According to Team Final and its numbers, this past year on the AAU circuit Dereck scored 8.4 ppg. He took 40 3-point shots in 15 games, but only made 11 of them, which is 27%. He also shot only 50% from the line. So while he sure sounds like a terrific defensive player/rim protector and great run and jump athlete, we should probably pump the brakes on the idea that Lively is going to do much right away offensively other than catch lobs and clean up misses off the board as he starts to develop a more advanced offensive game. But the idea that he is anywhere close to Marvin Bagley, who was a highly, highly skilled and effective offensive player from the minute he stepped on campus, is, frankly, absurd.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    The reports I've seen say that he is very raw offensively, not a creator but more of a lob/rim-rimming threat, and that he does have good form on his jumper which suggests he could develop into a good shooter. He's ranked #2 in the class, which I understand is considered a weak class overall and on top of that the top two players reclassified to 2021. But I still find it hard to believe he would be ranked that high based solely on his defense.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Where are people getting the idea that Lively is a good outside shooter and likely to be an effective scorer as a freshman? According to Team Final and its numbers, this past year on the AAU circuit Dereck scored 8.4 ppg. He took 40 3-point shots in 15 games, but only made 11 of them, which is 27%. He also shot only 50% from the line. So while he sure sounds like a terrific defensive player/rim protector and great run and jump athlete, we should probably pump the brakes on the idea that Lively is going to do much right away offensively other than catch lobs and clean up misses off the board as he starts to develop a more advanced offensive game. But the idea that he is anywhere close to Marvin Bagley, who was a highly, highly skilled and effective offensive player from the minute he stepped on campus, is, frankly, absurd.
    I've read back through this thread, and almost everyone is saying Lively has one thing in common with Bagley, his second jump ability. I think that's a fair comparison of one particular skills/attribute.

    As for his shooting, I also don't see much to suggest we'll see Lively take many 3's per game. He could and probably will take a few. He has good form. The thing about his AAU Team, Team Final, is that it featured Jalen Duren and on occasion Emoni Bates. Having those two on the roster surely suppressed his output. There's a reason a lot of people think Lively has such immense potential. It's mostly his defensive skillset and mindset. But it's also that he has some raw abilities that could further develop. I don't think he'll be a guy that leads the team in scoring most nights, but he'll get a few buckets just by virtue of his length and quickness around the rim.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I've read back through this thread, and almost everyone is saying Lively has one thing in common with Bagley, his second jump ability. I think that's a fair comparison of one particular skills/attribute.

    As for his shooting, I also don't see much to suggest we'll see Lively take many 3's per game. He could and probably will take a few. He has good form. The thing about his AAU Team, Team Final, is that it featured Jalen Duren and on occasion Emoni Bates. Having those two on the roster surely suppressed his output. There's a reason a lot of people think Lively has such immense potential. It's mostly his defensive skillset and mindset. But it's also that he has some raw abilities that could further develop. I don't think he'll be a guy that leads the team in scoring most nights, but he'll get a few buckets just by virtue of his length and quickness around the rim.
    Vecenie seemed impressed with his motor and defensive ability. He categorized Dereck's shooting as a budding skill, Dereck's offense as simple but efficient and effective.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Where are people getting the idea that Lively is a good outside shooter and likely to be an effective scorer as a freshman? According to Team Final and its numbers, this past year on the AAU circuit Dereck scored 8.4 ppg. He took 40 3-point shots in 15 games, but only made 11 of them, which is 27%. He also shot only 50% from the line. So while he sure sounds like a terrific defensive player/rim protector and great run and jump athlete, we should probably pump the brakes on the idea that Lively is going to do much right away offensively other than catch lobs and clean up misses off the board as he starts to develop a more advanced offensive game. But the idea that he is anywhere close to Marvin Bagley, who was a highly, highly skilled and effective offensive player from the minute he stepped on campus, is, frankly, absurd.
    Hmm🤔, Lively is the #2 recruit in the nation yet is a poor outside-shooter and is well below average from the FT line??

    Is he one of the greatest defenders in the history of high school basketball or something? The second coming of Bill Russell?

    Iím not knocking the kid at all, not in the slightest. Iím just wondering about the ranking system.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    How would he compare to Shelden Williams, who also was a rim protector but very raw offensively?
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    "You can't teach 7-1"....I have a lot more of these! Can't teach a 7-8 wingspan either.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    https://247sports.com/Article/Dereck...ate-166541091/

    Am I the only one on DBR who doesnít feel bad that UNC and Hubert Davis missed on young Mr. Lively?
    ďUNC was a great first visit and it set the bar very high,Ē he said. ďI really enjoyed and liked the experience. The environment is something I can see myself playing at and being a part of so it was a great visit overall.Ē
    Well to be fair, that's still gonna happen.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Well to be fair, that's still gonna happen.
    Haha, nicely done. 👍🏻

    Iím excited about Lively. I love really good interior defenders.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    How would he compare to Shelden Williams, who also was a rim protector but very raw offensively?
    Shelden used muscle and brute force to overwhelm people, and also had excellent shotblocking instincts, but he was essentially a below the rim player. Which is one reason why he didn't make it in the NBA. Lively is more slender but definitely a bouncy, athletic kid who also appears to have really good shotblocking skills but will need some time to develop his offensive game. Which we're all hopeful he does. Very different body type than Shelden.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Gator View Post
    What's really amazing is not that he scored 22 points and pulled down 18 rebounds in that 1998 ACC Tournament final against Duke, but that he did it while disabled with a pulled groin muscle and -- according to UNC lore -- two broken legs. Another one of those miraculous recoveries wrought by Dean's Magic Healing Dust.
    Didn't he also have a broken left radius and separated right shoulder, or am I confusing him with another hole on that team?

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Didn't he also have a broken left radius and separated right shoulder, or am I confusing him with another hole on that team?
    Yea, I remember after he destroyed us , when the game ended I told my wife if he was as beat up as they claimed, I donít want to see him again if he is fully healthy. Was really glad to see him go.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    How about Nerlens Noel as a comp for Lively? Similar ranking and defense first skills. I think Noel was a bit shorter. Even with an injury-shortened season, he made NCAA all freshman team and I think SEC freshman of the year so if Lively achieves similarly, that would be a good season.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by southgater View Post
    How about Nerlens Noel as a comp for Lively? Similar ranking and defense first skills. I think Noel was a bit shorter. Even with an injury-shortened season, he made NCAA all freshman team and I think SEC freshman of the year so if Lively achieves similarly, that would be a good season.
    Noel came to mind for me as well, as did Greg Oden. I have no idea whether or not those are good comps; I havenít researched it.

    It could be that Lively is more athletic than both Noel and Oden were coming out of high school. Perhaps Tommy can provide some insight.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Noel came to mind for me as well, as did Greg Oden. I have no idea whether or not those are good comps; I havenít researched it.

    It could be that Lively is more athletic than both Noel and Oden were coming out of high school. Perhaps Tommy can provide some insight.
    Noel seems like a reasonable comp. Not Oden. Oden was a mountain of a man even in high school. I think at Ohio State he played at like 270-280 pounds. He was all power and brute force. His body mass proved to be too much for his feet to handle, which really limited his career as a professional. His body and his game is nothing like Livelyís in my opinion. And letís hope his feet arenít either.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Forest Hills, NY
    A quote on "The Brotherhood" in a Sporting News article about this recruiting win. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...cid=entnewsntp

    Ties into our discussions on the meaning and significance of "The Brotherhood" it in another thread...and what it means.

    "We've discussed that at 247, and I've been on board with saying Duke is Duke," analyst Brandon Jenkins told Sporting News. "The foundation of Duke is ĎThe Brotherhood,' and I think it's so strong they have the chance to get the best high school players."

    "The Brotherhood is not just about being able to get players to the league and to get them to be able to get them to that second contract. It's also the professionalism with how a Duke player carries himself. That attracts not only the prospects, but also the families of prospects." (emphasis added)

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