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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    How are you folks seeing Bagley in Lively? I don't think they are at all comparable.

    Bagley was an elite offensive player with a myriad of moves that could allow him to score when he got the ball within 10 feet. Lively possesses very few post moves. His points in the paint tend to come from lobs and OReb putbacks.
    Bagley was a pretty mediocre defender. He was poor in the pick and roll and not much of a shot blocker. Lively is likely to be one of the great shot blockers in Duke history and is considered a truly elite pick-n-roll defender who can switch onto guards.
    Bagley, despite being an outstanding offensive player, was not a great outside shooter. He hit a good percentage of his 3s, but only attempted 1.8 3FGs per game and he shot poorly from the FT line (62%). Lively's strongest offensive attribute is his outside shooting. He buried multiple long-range shots over and over again playing against top tier AAU competition this summer.

    The only similarity in their games is that both are great "second jump" guys. Other than that, I don't see much at all about their games that is similar.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Outside Philadelphia

    More than a great player

    If you are a subscriber to the Athletic, check out the story by Dana O'Neil on the relationship between Dereck Lively and his mom. This is a mentally tough young man with a big heart -- love that he is coming to Duke!

    https://theathletic.com/2838275/2021...-and-duke-got/

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Paolo is already my favorite Duke player this year. That tweet sold it.
    A better tweet - canít wait to play with you next year!

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    MKE
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    How are you folks seeing Bagley in Lively? I don't think they are at all comparable.

    Bagley was an elite offensive player with a myriad of moves that could allow him to score when he got the ball within 10 feet. Lively possesses very few post moves. His points in the paint tend to come from lobs and OReb putbacks.
    Bagley was a pretty mediocre defender. He was poor in the pick and roll and not much of a shot blocker. Lively is likely to be one of the great shot blockers in Duke history and is considered a truly elite pick-n-roll defender who can switch onto guards.
    Bagley, despite being an outstanding offensive player, was not a great outside shooter. He hit a good percentage of his 3s, but only attempted 1.8 3FGs per game and he shot poorly from the FT line (62%). Lively's strongest offensive attribute is his outside shooting. He buried multiple long-range shots over and over again playing against top tier AAU competition this summer.

    The only similarity in their games is that both are great "second jump" guys. Other than that, I don't see much at all about their games that is similar.
    It sounds like people are stretching for the Bagley comparison because there's no remotely similar Duke player to cite. An excellent shot blocker whose best offensive weapon is the three ball? Sounds like Manute Bol.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Honolulu

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Welcome to Duke University and The Duke Brotherhood Dereck.

    GoDuke!

  7. #47
    Welcome Dereck!

    Coach Scheyer and crew are dominating the recruiting trails right now. Three top 10 recruits (2 top 10 big men) in the class of 22 plus Jaden Schutt who is ranked 47th on ESPN. Then a 5 star PG in the class of 2023 whoís ranked 13th right now. Talk about some serious talent.

    This class is shaping up to be one of the best ever at Duke. Iíve read JJ Starling and Mark Mitchell are heavily leaning towards committing to Duke, too, according to 247 sports.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    How are you folks seeing Bagley in Lively? I don't think they are at all comparable.

    Bagley was an elite offensive player with a myriad of moves that could allow him to score when he got the ball within 10 feet. Lively possesses very few post moves. His points in the paint tend to come from lobs and OReb putbacks.
    Bagley was a pretty mediocre defender. He was poor in the pick and roll and not much of a shot blocker. Lively is likely to be one of the great shot blockers in Duke history and is considered a truly elite pick-n-roll defender who can switch onto guards.
    Bagley, despite being an outstanding offensive player, was not a great outside shooter. He hit a good percentage of his 3s, but only attempted 1.8 3FGs per game and he shot poorly from the FT line (62%). Lively's strongest offensive attribute is his outside shooting. He buried multiple long-range shots over and over again playing against top tier AAU competition this summer.

    The only similarity in their games is that both are great "second jump" guys. Other than that, I don't see much at all about their games that is similar.
    Well, they are both tall. Take that!

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    A better tweet - canít wait to play with you next year!
    Hahahaha. Sorry. Let me compose myself. Hahahahahahahahahaha.

    With 3 top 10 players, I'm predicting our wings and front court are getting gutted this year. And this doesn't include Mark Mitchell, who is very likely a Duke lean. Bye bye Williams, Banchero, Griffin. Does Baker want to be a bench player again? If not, then he's gone. I assume Keels, Roach, and Moore want to start. That's not possible, assuming Lively, Flip, and Whitehead start (that is a massive frontcourt, btw).
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  10. #50
    Idk why people are saying bagley. The guy he reminds me of is Myles turner but better athletically. Elite defender who can rim run and shoot threes but isnít the most consistent there.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I do get some Bagley vibes, but the scouting reports say that Lively is an elite defender, maybe the best defender in his class, and he's 7'1 with like a 7'4" wingspan. I don't think he'll match Bagley's offensive output, but he seems to have similar bounce and energy around the basket.
    According to ESPN, it's a 7'8" wingspan. Wowza. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ke-blue-devils

    If that's true, it would best Mark Williams, who already has the longest wingspan in Duke history.

    I think the Bagley comparison is accurate from a quick twitch perspective. But Bagley is more than likely the better offensive player and Lively is certainly the better defensive player.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    The big man combo of Banchero and Mark Williams for the 2021-22 season has great potential both offensively and defensively. It is a combination of size and talent rarely seen in college basketball. And it may not be equaled until the 2022-23 Duke combo of Filipowski and Lively.

  13. #53
    The only Bagley comparison I have is the second jump. He just explodes off the floor and gets to the ball so quickly. The only other player near his size that I've seen do that at Duke is Bagley. Otherwise, their games are very different.

    I think Lively will be a lot more like Mark Williams was as a freshman but with a better second jump and the occasional 3-point attempt, like 1-2 per game. He's a defense-first guy, which is kind of the opposite of Marvin Bagley.

    Another comp I've seen for Lively is Myles Turner, the former Texas big man. Lively will probably start and play a few more minutes per game, but I think we'll see something similar from him. Turner was Big 12 Rookie of the Year and All-Defensive Team. He averaged 10.1 pts/6.5 rebs/2.6 blks per game in just 22.2 mpg. Turner was the #6 RSCI player in the Class of 2015, which is pretty comparable to where Lively is ranked. I think he's a good benchmark in terms of size and skillset. Turner was a very good FT shooter but only made 27% of his 3's on less than 2 attempts per game. Turner measured 6'10" w/o shoes and a 7'4" wingspan whereas Lively will be closer to a true 7-footer without shoes and a 7'8" wingspan. That's essentially the same height and length of Rudy Gobert. And Lively is faster off his feet. Of course, he'll need to add strength to his frame to get anywhere close to Gobert in terms of defensive impact, but you can see the potential there.

    If Lively is somewhere near Turner's production but with a slight bump in MPG, I think it makes sense to expect him to contribute 10-12 pts/7-9 rebs/2.5-3.5 blks in 27-30 mpg.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Stwray View Post
    If you are a subscriber to the Athletic, check out the story by Dana O'Neil on the relationship between Dereck Lively and his mom. This is a mentally tough young man with a big heart -- love that he is coming to Duke!

    https://theathletic.com/2838275/2021...-and-duke-got/
    This is a very good article, one that points out a fact that I didn't know...Dereck's mother, Kathy, has been living with Hodgkin's lymphoma for 7 years. Dana O'Neil's article ($) describes an extraordinary mother/son bond, one especially forged when his father died 9 years ago. His mother sounds as mentally tough as they come, a wonderful addition to the long legacy of stalwart Duke basketball parents.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    How about a taller Antwan Jaimison as a comparison?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    The only Bagley comparison I have is the second jump. He just explodes off the floor and gets to the ball so quickly. The only other player near his size that I've seen do that at Duke is Bagley. Otherwise, their games are very different.

    I think Lively will be a lot more like Mark Williams was as a freshman but with a better second jump and the occasional 3-point attempt, like 1-2 per game. He's a defense-first guy, which is kind of the opposite of Marvin Bagley.

    Another comp I've seen for Lively is Myles Turner, the former Texas big man.
    The video you posted in the 2022 recruiting thread compared him to Chris Boucher. He's another long, skinny big who is an excellent shot-blocker and good switchable defender who can hit an open jumper. Boucher just had a breakout season with the Raptors, averaging 13 pts, 7 rebounds, and 2 blocks per game while shooting 38% from three.

    Of course, Lively is four inches taller than Boucher and with a longer wingspan...we're starting to get into Bol Bol territory here.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Iím looking forward to the phrase ďsecond jumpabilityĒ returning to common parlance on these boards.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    No

    Quote Originally Posted by HooDevil View Post
    How about a taller Antwan Jaimison as a comparison?
    Not based on defense, certainly, and probably not on offense, either. Antawn Jamison averaged only 1 block per game in college. Not a rim protector at all. And a good low post scorer, which Lively is not supposed to be, at least yet.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Not based on defense, certainly, and probably not on offense, either. Antawn Jamison averaged only 1 block per game in college. Not a rim protector at all. And a good low post scorer, which Lively is not supposed to be, at least yet.

    I still have nightmares about that game in which Jamison had a zillion pts against us and he barely handled the ball...putback after putback.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I still have nightmares about that game in which Jamison had a zillion pts against us and he barely handled the ball...putback after putback.
    Didn't he touch the ball for an accumulated 60 seconds or so?

    Man, I was glad he left Carolina, although he was one of my least despised Tar Heels.

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