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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    So I can expect plenty of mea culpa's here? I'm not holding my breath. Admittedly, it was a goofy thing to tweet. But I certainly thought, knowing Kyrie, that it might be something beyond actual mask mandate stuff.
    No apology here. It was dumb and irresponsible if his walk back is truly what he meant.
    “Fútbol is life!” — Dani Rojas, Richmond Greyhounds

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    No apology here. It was dumb and irresponsible if his walk back is truly what he meant.
    I was half-joking about the apologies. Couldn't you tell?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    No apology here. It was dumb and irresponsible if his walk back is truly what he meant.
    I mean, can you take him at his word? He's tone deaf for sure, but also doesn't seem dishonest. He's an odd fellow and should have known how it would be read, but have you known him to lie?
       

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    I was half-joking about the apologies. Couldn't you tell?
    Sorry, the coffee hasn’t taken yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I mean, can you take him at his word? He's tone deaf for sure, but also doesn't seem dishonest. He's an odd fellow and should have known how it would be read, but have you known him to lie?
    I would say equivocate, not lie. His “clarification” on the whole flat earth thing have been awfully unclear it seems to me.
    “Fútbol is life!” — Dani Rojas, Richmond Greyhounds

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I would say equivocate, not lie. His “clarification” on the whole flat earth thing have been awfully unclear it seems to me.
    That's only because you can't see over the horizon.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    That's only because you can't see over the horizon.
    Or over the cliff where there be dragons…
       

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Sorry, the coffee hasn’t taken yet.



    I would say equivocate, not lie. His “clarification” on the whole flat earth thing have been awfully unclear it seems to me.
    Kyrie is definitely that pseudo-intellectual kid that most of us had in a Philosophy 101 class at some point. He isn't nearly as smart or clever as he thinks he is. But, I don't see him as the type to lie about his intentions. If he really wanted to make a statement about COVID and masking, why would he immediately walk it back? He's made it clear that he isn't afraid to make statements that are unpopular.
       

  8. #28
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    Nov 2007
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    Vermont
    I'm not going to devote any effort to try and interpret Kyrie's comments but evidently some writers have been saying he's apt to be traded, may retire in a year, etc, etc, so it's completely unclear whether he was referring to Covid or said assertions.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Kyrie is definitely that pseudo-intellectual kid that most of us had in a Philosophy 101 class at some point. He isn't nearly as smart or clever as he thinks he is. But, I don't see him as the type to lie about his intentions. If he really wanted to make a statement about COVID and masking, why would he immediately walk it back? He's made it clear that he isn't afraid to make statements that are unpopular.
    I agree with this. All joking aside, what we know about Kyrie is that he may say really outrageous things from time to time, but he's not generally a straight-up liar about what he actually thinks. It's just not the way he rolls.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    I agree with this. All joking aside, what we know about Kyrie is that he may say really outrageous things from time to time, but he's not generally a straight-up liar about what he actually thinks. It's just not the way he rolls.
    If anything, he doubles down if he says something outrageous that gets attention.
       

  11. #31
    If there is one thing we can all agree on, Kyrie likes to be unconventional, likes to speak his mind and can say things contrary to the main stream.

    He can also be temperamental, moody and quick to turn on people.

    He clearly thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and an intellectual. Like others have indicated, I am far from convinced that he is half as smart as he thinks he has. Mind you, if he is half as smart as he thinks he is - he would still be pretty smart.

    Unlike most main stream NBA stars, there is a wide and deep group of people who have grown to dislike Kyrie. Some love him, but a lot do not. And that makes him fairly unique. And maybe he does not care.

    Personally, I loved him, grew into apologizing for him, and finally got tired of him. I am no longer a supporter.

    I still maintain however that he is an incredible talent. With remarkable skills. But he comes with baggage that I anticipate most teams simply do not want.
       

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Eternal Outlaw View Post
    Older article but as far as recently heard, it hasn't changed. https://www.upmc.com/media/news/0726...cine-hesitancy

    'The largest decrease in hesitancy between January and May by education group was in those with a high school education or less. Hesitancy held constant in the most educated group (those with a Ph.D.); by May Ph.D.’s were the most hesitant group.'

    While this is about vaccines and not masks, seems pretty clear the accepted stance on this site is pro both and anyone against either is ignorant. But isn't it interesting at all that people with really high levels of education are the biggest hesitancy group?
    The "largest decrease in hesitancy" is a change. It says nothing about the starting point. So suppose 16% of Ph.D.s (in any field?) say they'll never get the vaccine, and over the study period, suppose that dropped to 14%. That's a 2% absolute drop, a 12.5% relative drop. Suppose adults with no college at all refuse the vaccine at a rate of 30%, and after the study period, it's 25%. That's a 5% absolute drop, and a 16.7% relative drop - beating the PhD decrease in hesitancy on both counts. But the second group remains the largest hesitancy group.

    OK, so that's an example. But what does the study actually claim for data? It appears to me that the no-college group began with a hesitancy rate 50% higher than the PhD group. This steadily declined from January to May. The PhD group stayed pretty level, whereas the no-college group hesitancy dropped down to the level of the PhD group by April and slightly below it by May. But really, "no college", "some college", and "PhD" are all very closely grouped by May. There were other variables that showed persistent stronger differences.

    What do I make of it? Nothing. It was not peer reviewed, for one thing. For another, it was self-reported, online, Facebook-funded survey: Researchers: "Additionally, we assume the survey was completed in good faith. " I wouldn't hang my hat on such a study design. Doesn't make it wrong, but sure can't assume it's right.

    _____

    As for the topic of Kyrie, I don't mind if someone believes in conspiracies. There are some real ones in the world, and it would be nice if those were the ones he believed in. Such as groups of people conspiring to convince others that the earth was flat, that vaccines are harmful, etc.

  13. #33
    Here's a great example of a more productive way for an athlete with vaccine hesitation can address it directly while helping the community. I linked to this conversation between Marshawn Lynch and Dr Fauci on another thread, but I feel it belongs here too.

    The video is from April, I believe, when vaccine hesitancy was perhaps at it's highest.

    Lynch is straight forward and honest about the hesitations some in the Black community have regarding health emergencies, mandates, etc and Fauci does (from my perspective) an excellent job of facing those concerns head on and giving solid responses. Marshawn says at the outset that the purpose of the video isn't to "convince" more people to get vaccinated, but to give them more straight information so that they might make the best decision foe themselves.

    I'm admittedly a HUGE Marshawn fan, but this video makes me very happy. I promise I won't litter other threads with links to it.

    Just an interesting different way to deal with sports celebrity and education on important issues.
       

  14. #34
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    Dec 2009
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    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Kyrie is definitely that pseudo-intellectual kid that most of us had in a Philosophy 101 class at some point. He isn't nearly as smart or clever as he thinks he is. But, I don't see him as the type to lie about his intentions. If he really wanted to make a statement about COVID and masking, why would he immediately walk it back? He's made it clear that he isn't afraid to make statements that are unpopular.
    Kyrie is the pseudo-intellectual kid who made me never take Philosophy 101 - as someone who is very concrete and pragmatic, I cannot stand that type. Say what you mean. Own what you say. Be self-aware.

    I was a huge fan of Kyrie from early on. I actually had a very random, brief interaction with his dad when Kyrie was at Duke and he seemed like a good guy too. But Kyrie is losing a lot of people. Though I am a total conformist, not everyone has to be a conformist. But people need to be smart about picking their spots. I guess he is entitled to not care. It is just a shame because he has used his wealth and platform to do some really great things and those are increasingly getting drowned out by his oddity.

  15. #35
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    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    See my post 15. He has already tweeted a clarification.
    Sorry, I wasn't clear but that was in response to the people who didn't believe Kyrie's explanation.

    Although to be honest, my real suspicion is that the dual meaning was on purpose (just to get people riled up, not necessarily because he is secretly anti-mask which I have no idea) and he's had this clarification tweet queued up ready to go since he made the first one.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Sorry, I wasn't clear but that was in response to the people who didn't believe Kyrie's explanation.

    Although to be honest, my real suspicion is that the dual meaning was on purpose (just to get people riled up, not necessarily because he is secretly anti-mask which I have no idea) and he's had this clarification tweet queued up ready to go since he made the first one.
    I agree. I suspect he's giggling to himself about how he pulled one over on everyone.
       

  17. #37
    The people who follow Kyrie on Twitless are the real dopes.
       

  18. #38
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    Feb 2018
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I mean, can you take him at his word? He's tone deaf for sure, but also doesn't seem dishonest. He's an odd fellow and should have known how it would be read, but have you known him to lie?
    That's a huge, huge point here. He may very well be telling the absolute truth about his original tweet. But now there's a tweet out there by a major superstar that facially is anti-mask. Kyrie should know very well that a post like that could very well get amplified by anti-mask proponents which are far beyond Kyrie's control, and that a clarification tweet likely would not. He's risks being perceived as anti-mask whether that was his subjective intent or not.

    Regardless of what you think about the four-year degree stuff earlier, I am frankly surprised that a Duke-educated athlete would not be more sensitive about this kind of issue. And at the risk of being accused of being elitist, when I'm really just trying to be complimentary, I'd suggest that four years at Duke really would have given Kyrie sufficient experience practicing social media discipline that he would not have made this kind of mistake had he stayed. Duke's program in this regard has been pretty exemplary.

    Edit: In response to the "clarification ready to go" people, I frankly don't think that matters. In this day and age of no nuance and external forces, that kind of tactic can backfire spectacularly.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Sorry, I wasn't clear but that was in response to the people who didn't believe Kyrie's explanation.

    Although to be honest, my real suspicion is that the dual meaning was on purpose (just to get people riled up, not necessarily because he is secretly anti-mask which I have no idea) and he's had this clarification tweet queued up ready to go since he made the first one.
    Yeah, I agree. For all his complaints about the media he seems to intentionally make news, so…
       

  20. #40

    I agree: Let's be kind

    Quote Originally Posted by Eternal Outlaw View Post
    Older article but as far as recently heard, it hasn't changed. https://www.upmc.com/media/news/0726...cine-hesitancy

    'The largest decrease in hesitancy between January and May by education group was in those with a high school education or less. Hesitancy held constant in the most educated group (those with a Ph.D.); by May Ph.D.’s were the most hesitant group.'

    While this is about vaccines and not masks, seems pretty clear the accepted stance on this site is pro both and anyone against either is ignorant. But isn't it interesting at all that people with really high levels of education are the biggest hesitancy group? It's like the more you know maybe the less convinced you are and so the less educated was convinced more than the highest. Or maybe it's because people got so much hatred and shaming thrown at them that they just did it but PHDs aren't going to feel that same pressure when they can lean back on their education.

    It's pretty disappointing here. Fans from any team if they do respectably, even UNC, can join the conversation but it's pretty clear there is now a gate being thrown down where differing opinions on vaccines and masks are not wanted and will be shamed and hated on. I'm 43 and every commercial about health products always said talk to your doctor. I drive 25 minutes to and from work and will hear three different vaccine commercials each day at least and not one says talk to your doctor. Message is clear, just do it. I got vaccinated after speaking with my doctor. I'm an introvert so lockdowns/mask mandates don't even affect me much. I'm certainly not the enemy but this disgusts me. The fact people are seen as enemies and treated with hate and like their trash is way below what I thought this site was about. Gatekeeping, hatred, name calling. https://forums.dukebasketballreport...61#post1396761

    If you truly think calling people refusenik and pounding your chest wanting to gate keep them out of places will win the day, keep doing what you're doing. It seems people will dig in harder but I don't have 4 years at Duke like Kyrie so what do I know. I was just a boy who has Polish roots and in a town where the favorite jokes were 'how many Polish people does it take to' and saw a guy on TV with a hard to spell Polish name and was amazed everyone (naive of course) seemed to respect him. I didn't have the money, grades, SAT score, or the athletic ability to get into Duke. Congrats to those that were lucky enough to go. But plenty of us got to the same place as you without it so maybe drop the elite crap that 2,3,4 years of a Duke education might bring with it for some, be kind to people, maybe figure out less aggressive ways to get people to agree with your side and if it still doesn't work, treat them like a human being that they still are. Just a thought but maybe I just need my ignorance reduced.
    Dear Eternal Outlaw,

    I'm tempted to go all out ad hominem on the basis of your moniker, but I won't, because ad hominem isn't kind, especially when it presumes the worst, it deflects from any central argument and it is usually off-base.

    Rather than project onto me your distain of elitism, which I share, please note that I mentioned "Duke" simply because that is where Kyrie started college. If he had gone to any other school, I would have inserted that school. I happen to believe that college education is good for our brain and knowledge. Kyrie's attending any college for more than an effective semester may have compelled him to take such electives as geology and astronomy, making it more difficult to believe in a flat earth, or whatever. FWIW, I happen to be a big fan of Community Colleges.

    Besides being unkind, ad hominem deflects from the central argument, which in my view is that we are facing a deadly, on-going pandemic. The scientific community is as united as it can be in asserting that masks and vaccines help reduce contagion, hospitalizations and deaths. I have no idea, really, of Kyrie's IQ or motives. But his statement undoubtedly gave more ammunition to those adamant against and/or hesitant about masking and vaccinations. What is also unfortunately true is that "walk backs," clarifications, whatever do not get the reach that the original statement does. I presume Kyrie is aware of this, and I wish that he would be more careful in the future, when peoples' health and lives are on the line.

    Ad hominem often misses the mark because it usually projects a view rather than accurately describe the object of the ad hominem. As for me, I don't know whether I could have gotten into Duke as an UG. Doesn't matter to me. What I do know is that my father [who left our family struggling when I was five], and my uncle and grandfather all worked for Ford's in Dearborn MI. We were as lunch pail blue collar as they come. My mom worked two jobs as we were growing up so that she could hold the family together. Our vacations consisted of maybe several days at a nearby lake. I worked all through junior high, HS, college and grad school, worked every summer, all summer. Often two jobs at once, because I was dirt poor.

    My professional earnings changed the economic situation of my own family. My two sons did go to Duke and I am proud of their accomplishments. I would have been equally proud of them going anywhere else. They both knew and know that their own experience was very different from my own. We had a pact: I would continue to be generous so long as they made the most of their experience and remained grateful and humble. They more than upheld their side of the bargain and I am deeply grateful.

    I now teach at Duke and cannot stand any sign of elitism and smugness. But in fact so many Duke students do not conform to the negative stereotype. Many are gracious, grateful and not at all arrogant. As you know, many Duke students are on full scholarship and do not come from economically privileged backgrounds. And they are gifted, no doubt, just as there are gifted student everywhere. Before I came to teach at Duke, I taught at Armstrong Atlantic State U, in Savannah. [I had retired from management consulting, and wanted to see if I liked teaching. I did!] One of my greatest joys was to see how gifted some of the students were. I let them know that they shouldn't underestimate their abilities and their prospects. I shared some of my story. I encouraged them to not let their own background and lack of "elite credentials" constrain their vision and goals. My mission is to help us all become the best version of ourselves, and that does not include arrogance, elitism and unkindness.

    My kindness extends to you, Eternal Outlaw, and I hope that it is mutual. I wish you the best!

    hustleplays
    “I love it. Coach, when we came here, we had a three-hour meeting about the core values. If you really represent the core values, it means diving on the floor, sacrificing your body for your teammates, no matter how much you’re up by or how much you’re down by, always playing hard.” -- Zion

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