Hallelujah (the song)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I am generally against songs with sexual innuendo, preferring melodies about coal mining disasters and brand new roller skates. But I may have to give this song a listen.




(Cohen’s best song imo is “Everybody Knows,” followed by either “Tower of Song” or “First We Take Manhattan.” But if you’re debating your favorite Leonard Cohen song with someone, you’re already friends.)

Ouch...

I much prefer older. Famous Blue Raincoat, Suzanne, Chelsea Hotel, The Partisan...

[OldPhiKap]

Ouch...

I much prefer older. Famous Blue Raincoat, Suzanne, Chelsea Hotel, The Partisan...

All good choices, too.

Just not coal mine-y enough for me.

[House P]

All good choices, too.

Just not coal mine-y enough for me.

You must be a big fan of the Folksmen!

The master songwriting trio of Guest/McKean/Shearer is occasionally* mentioned along with with Cohen, Dylan, Lennon/McCartney and other all-time greats. Guest and company really tapped into something universal with their classic "Blood on the Coal" -- the only song I know which combines the death of a loved one, a train wreck, and a mining disaster into, as Shearer puts it, "one fast moving ditty, just to heighten the tragedy".

Here's a clip of them performing the song live on MadTV.


For those who don't want to take 4 minutes to watch the clip, here is the chorus.

Blood on the tracks, blood in the mine
Brothers and sisters, what a terrible time
The Old 97 went in the wrong hole
Now in mine number 60 there's blood on the coal



*Very, very occasionally -- as in, maybe only by me, in the the facetious statement above

[OZZIE4DUKE]

My daughter sings Dixieland Delight every home game in Tuscaloosa. But they’ve added some naughty fillers.

After telling her about what we chanted to Dean Smith, though, I’m in no position to criticize. (and I still feel that way fwiw)

And then there's the Gross Bus lyrics to our fellow ACC members' fight songs! I was never on the band but had several fraternity brothers where were, and they were, shall we say, very creative! Like this version of the ND fight song (they weren't in the ACC then, but still)

They never go out, they never date....

[nmduke2001]

That particular performance probably introduced lots of younger people to the song. Cohen released the song in 1984. Jeff Buckley covered it in 1994. It was in Shrek in 2001 (another super odd choice). So, it had been out of the zeitgeist for 15 years when it popped up on SNL.

Another interesting take on the song, this immediately after Cohen's death and the SNL performance.

The song is covered on nearly every season of every "talent" show on TV. Before anyone says that people don't watch those shows anymore; someone must be watching because they keep getting renewed.

[CDu]

This link contains a lengthy excerpt from the book you mentioned by Alan Light. In it, Light and others talk quite a lot about the sexuality in the lyrics (multiple verses, not just one line). The author also is harshly critical of Bono’s cover of the song.

https://www.rollingstone.com/feature...on-194516/amp/

Count me in the "the song is a lot deeper than sex" camp. From that Rolling Stone article, Cohen himself goes into depth on the song:

“I wanted to push the Hallelujah deep into the secular world, into the ordinary world,” he once said. “The Hallelujah, the David’s Hallelujah, was still a religious song. So I wanted to indicate that Hallelujah can come out of things that have nothing to do with religion.”

“This world is full of conflicts and full of things that cannot be reconciled,” Cohen has said, “but there are moments when we can transcend the dualistic system and reconcile and embrace the whole mess, and that’s what I mean by ‘Hallelujah.’ That regardless of what the impossibility of the situation is, there is a moment when you open your mouth and you throw open your arms and you embrace the thing and you just say, ‘Hallelujah! Blessed is the name.’…

“The only moment that you can live here comfortably in these absolutely irreconcilable conflicts is in this moment when you embrace it all and you say, ‘Look, I don’t understand a I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing thing at all – Hallelujah!’ That’s the only moment that we live here fully as human beings.”

Is there underlying sex in one of the verses? [note: the truly overt sexual verse wasn't in the original Cohen song, although apparently was one of the many verses he considered] Yes. But I think to cheapen the message to "a song about adultery, sex, lack of faith in God, and messed up relationships" undercuts the depth of the song. It's more complex than that, even if a broken relationship is the vehicle for that message.

And, more to the point, I actually think the latter two quotes from Cohen in that piece do speak to the appropriateness of the song. Even if the performers don't understand the complexity or origin of his song, I suspect that Cohen would have approved of its use in the 9/11 remembrance, as the song is about finding peace and rapture in an otherwise irreconcilable mess.

Now, I agree wholly that it has no business being on a Christmas album. But the premise of finding solace in a broken world seems pretty appropriate for this instance. As is the message of uplifting from a dark place. The world of art and music is all about finding one's interpretation of the meaning of a song. And while there are certainly examples of ironic use of music (like frat boys singing to "Glory Days", or politicians playing "Born in the USA"), I don't think this falls anywhere near that realm.

[freshmanjs]

Count me in the "the song is a lot deeper than sex" camp. From that Rolling Stone article, Cohen himself goes into depth on the song:

“I wanted to push the Hallelujah deep into the secular world, into the ordinary world,” he once said. “The Hallelujah, the David’s Hallelujah, was still a religious song. So I wanted to indicate that Hallelujah can come out of things that have nothing to do with religion.”

“This world is full of conflicts and full of things that cannot be reconciled,” Cohen has said, “but there are moments when we can transcend the dualistic system and reconcile and embrace the whole mess, and that’s what I mean by ‘Hallelujah.’ That regardless of what the impossibility of the situation is, there is a moment when you open your mouth and you throw open your arms and you embrace the thing and you just say, ‘Hallelujah! Blessed is the name.’…

“The only moment that you can live here comfortably in these absolutely irreconcilable conflicts is in this moment when you embrace it all and you say, ‘Look, I don’t understand a I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing thing at all – Hallelujah!’ That’s the only moment that we live here fully as human beings.”

Is there underlying sex in one of the verses? [note: the truly overt sexual verse wasn't in the original Cohen song, although apparently was one of the many verses he considered] Yes. But I think to cheapen the message to "a song about adultery, sex, lack of faith in God, and messed up relationships" undercuts the depth of the song. It's more complex than that, even if a broken relationship is the vehicle for that message.

And, more to the point, I actually think the latter two quotes from Cohen in that piece do speak to the appropriateness of the song. Even if the performers don't understand the complexity or origin of his song, I suspect that Cohen would have approved of its use in the 9/11 remembrance, as the song is about finding peace and rapture in an otherwise irreconcilable mess.

Now, I agree wholly that it has no business being on a Christmas album. But the premise of finding solace in a broken world seems pretty appropriate for this instance. As is the message of uplifting from a dark place. The world of art and music is all about finding one's interpretation of the meaning of a song. And while there are certainly examples of ironic use of music (like frat boys singing to "Glory Days", or politicians playing "Born in the USA"), I don't think this falls anywhere near that realm.

I'm in the "this song is a lot deeper than sex" camp too. In my very first post starting the thread, I mentioned a bunch of themes (and I know it's not a complete list). Not sure there is anyone who isn't in that camp.

[CDu]

I'm in the "this song is a lot deeper than sex" camp too. In my very first post starting the thread, I mentioned a bunch of themes (and I know it's not a complete list).

Yes, I quoted your first post in my post. But note that you included a verse in that first post that isn't in the original song (it's in the Cale adaptation of it, and is one of the apparently many verses Cohen considered). The original song is actually very light on sexual innuendo, other than the David and Sampson references in the second verse. And those themes you mention aren't the point of the song (nor were they sung in the 9/11 performance), they are just a vehicle to lead to the message of finding a good place amid something awful.

Now, there have been adaptations (including by Cohen himself) that go much darker and more guttural. But the message Cohen intended with the song is very much in line with the 9/11 remembrance.

[snowdenscold]

Hmmm, so I goofed around on the piano some years back until I thought I had all the chords figured out, but now in re-listening (and googling some chord sheets) I'm second guessing myself.

Can someone tell me what chord they hear on the lyric, "the baffled king comPOSING, Hallelujah" ?

I have been playing a iii chord, but now I'm thinking it's supposed to be a III⁷.

I still think the iii sounds good there too, though! (and a couple google results even list it as such)

[cato]

Hmmm, so I goofed around on the piano some years back until I thought I had all the chords figured out, but now in re-listening (and googling some chord sheets) I'm second guessing myself.

Can someone tell me what chord they hear on the lyric, "the baffled king comPOSING, Hallelujah" ?

I have been playing a iii chord, but now I'm thinking it's supposed to be a III⁷.

I still think the iii sounds good there too, though! (and a couple google results even list it as such)

I’d tell you . . . but it’s a secret.

(Sorry)

[dudog84]

Hmmm, so I goofed around on the piano some years back until I thought I had all the chords figured out, but now in re-listening (and googling some chord sheets) I'm second guessing myself.

Can someone tell me what chord they hear on the lyric, "the baffled king comPOSING, Hallelujah" ?

I have been playing a iii chord, but now I'm thinking it's supposed to be a III⁷.

I still think the iii sounds good there too, though! (and a couple google results even list it as such)

I had to go work it out, once I decide how I want to play it, it becomes muscle memory so I can concentrate on the words. So yep, for me, I start in G and it's a B7.

[OldPhiKap]

Hmmm, so I goofed around on the piano some years back until I thought I had all the chords figured out, but now in re-listening (and googling some chord sheets) I'm second guessing myself.

Can someone tell me what chord they hear on the lyric, "the baffled king comPOSING, Hallelujah" ?

I have been playing a iii chord, but now I'm thinking it's supposed to be a III⁷.

I still think the iii sounds good there too, though! (and a couple google results even list it as such)

I had to go work it out, once I decide how I want to play it, it becomes muscle memory so I can concentrate on the words. So yep, for me, I start in G and it's a B7.

When you play it on a kazoo like I do, you don’t have to worry about such details.

I’d tell you . . . but it’s a secret.

(Sorry)

Winning post.

[dudog84]

When you play it on a kazoo like I do, you don’t have to worry about such details.

Hmmm. I thought of you more as a jug man. Very practical.

[roge054]

The mistaken interpretation of "Hallelujah" has taken hold and is now part of the song's legacy. It will continue to be performed for purposes not originally intended, and some people will shake their heads at it. That's the new reality.

It may not help that the last appropriate use of the song was probably in that weird Watchmen love scene, and the general public laughed at it.



I want to say that a country artist changed that line to "And there's religion too," but I could be mis-remembering. There is this:

Cee Lo Green criticised for changing lyrics to John Lennon's Imagine



A Perfect Circle sticks to Lennon's lyrics but makes them sound bleaker:



Notes:

1. I chose not to post the band's intended video of news clips because it's too graphic and political.
2. When the lead singer (Maynard James Keenan, who you may know from Tool, but not 1930s economic theory) sings "Imagine all the people" it sounds like he's bemoaning overpopulation, which I'm not sure Lennon was going for.

Lennon did say I'm trying to save the world but the people keep getting in the way.

[OldPhiKap]

Hmmm. I thought of you more as a jug man.

Oh, I am.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Oh, I am.

*Blinks*

[OldPhiKap]

94E8E8D2-FFC9-4F73-B86C-706A15A4336B.jpg

[cato]

Hmmm. I thought of you more as a jug man. Very practical.

Norm Macdonald would be proud.

[aimo]

Oh, I am.

(SIGH!)

[OldPhiKap]

(SIGH!)

Tell me this ain’t talent: