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  1. #461
    One person who is unlikely to be on topic in this thread is Quinn Cook as his signing with Lokomotiv Kuban in Krasnodar, Russia was announced today:
    https://www.eurocupbasketball.com/eu...otiv-backcourt

    I have not had the time to do overseas updates on the same scale for this season as in years past, but if you want to see brief day of game updates, I am tweeting them from @crazietalknet

  2. #462
    This is technically post-NBA Dukies content, but looks like we're going to be seeing a lot more of JJ on ESPN's NBA coverage as, likely, a studio analyst guy. He'll be great in that role; hope ESPN gives him a bit more rope to take things the way he wants to than they typically do for their NBA analyst crew.

  3. #463
    Unfortunately the Pelicans were up to their old ways again. Ingram with an opportunity to win the game, canít even get a decent shot off against Hunter. This has been the same problem three years running now with this team. Not sure theyíre ever going to get over the hump.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    Unfortunately the Pelicans were up to their old ways again. Ingram with an opportunity to win the game, canít even get a decent shot off against Hunter. This has been the same problem three years running now with this team. Not sure theyíre ever going to get over the hump.
    I came into the season willing to give David Griffin and co the benefit of the doubt for the Pels' offseason restructuring, but I have to say that the early returns have... not been good. I get that Lonzo is a limited player, but he's been improving steadily for the past few years, and he looks like he took another step forward this year; no coincidence that he's been so good in Chicago thus far. And it's not like Devonte Graham is NOT limited. And Satoransky isn't even playing? Again, I get the theoretical appeal of Kira Lewis, but is there any actual there there?

    All of which is to say: this was not a good team last year (though they were, I think, a bit better than their record; still, how many close games can you lose down the stretch before that's just who you are?), and it's hard for me to see how they're going to be better this year unless Zion comes back and is magically even better than he was last year. Taking a step backwards like this without a clear plan forward makes no sense to me, and, to me, it's on Griffin and the roster construction.

  5. #465
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldBattleship View Post
    I came into the season willing to give David Griffin and co the benefit of the doubt for the Pels' offseason restructuring, but I have to say that the early returns have... not been good. I get that Lonzo is a limited player, but he's been improving steadily for the past few years, and he looks like he took another step forward this year; no coincidence that he's been so good in Chicago thus far. And it's not like Devonte Graham is NOT limited. And Satoransky isn't even playing? Again, I get the theoretical appeal of Kira Lewis, but is there any actual there there?
    The Ball trade was a dumb trade for sure (as a Bulls fan I loved it though). Yes, Ball wanted out, so they were going to lose him regardless. But that didn't mean they needed to take on Garrett Temple in return. In a year in which teams were strapped for cap space, they should have just let him walk.

    Instead they added Temple (not a value add) and Satoransky (who I do think will be a useful backup for them but has been limited thus far) to basically facilitate the best player in the trade going to the Bulls

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldBattleship View Post
    All of which is to say: this was not a good team last year (though they were, I think, a bit better than their record; still, how many close games can you lose down the stretch before that's just who you are?), and it's hard for me to see how they're going to be better this year unless Zion comes back and is magically even better than he was last year. Taking a step backwards like this without a clear plan forward makes no sense to me, and, to me, it's on Griffin and the roster construction.
    It was a bad team last year, and it's obviously a worse team this year without Zion. With Zion I think they're probably better than last year. They lost Ball and Adams, but added Graham and Valanciunas, and Alexander-Walker and Zion should continue to improve. It is just hard obviously to see that with the best player out.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    It was a bad team last year, and it's obviously a worse team this year without Zion. With Zion I think they're probably better than last year. They lost Ball and Adams, but added Graham and Valanciunas, and Alexander-Walker and Zion should continue to improve. It is just hard obviously to see that with the best player out.
    And the player starting in Zion's place is averaging 3.2 points and 2.4 rebounds per game. Holy Drop-off, Batman! Unfortunately, they will probably find themselves in too big of a hole to get out of by the time Zion is back, and even then he's supposed to be limited in minutes for a while. Josh Hart also is hurt and out for some time.

    They are getting very little from their bench, which was a problem last year, too. Really, none of their recent draft picks other than Zion have paid dividends. Alexander-Walker is capable of having a big game, but he's a career sub-40% shooter and 33% from 3 with low assist numbers.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    Unfortunately the Pelicans were up to their old ways again. Ingram with an opportunity to win the game, canít even get a decent shot off against Hunter. This has been the same problem three years running now with this team. Not sure theyíre ever going to get over the hump.
    I was at the game and the air went out of the SKC when he predictably airballed another clutch shot. Like you said, same story as last year. Ingram must have (Badly) missed a dozen potential game winners last year from that same spot. The Pelicans do look significantly better defensively this season, but the offense is still subpar. Nickeil Alexander Walker is just an inefficient scorer who can't shoot, but with the poor roster construction they don't have any other options besides Ingram and NAW at this point...until Zion gets back.

  8. #468
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Zion is going to have a real debate on his hands... the Pels will offer him a max extension, but the smart move might be to just take the 1-year qualifying offer that New Orleans makes at the end of his rookie deal and become a free agent after season #5. Of course, the issue there would be that he has an injury history and if he gets hurt his value could plummet.

    Still, he cannot be happy with the way the Pelicans have built around him.

    One reason he might be willing to risk it is that, as a #1 overall pick, his rookie contract has been pretty sizeable already. By the end of this season, he will be at just over $30 mil in NBA earnings. He is due to make $13.5 mil next year in the final year of his rookie deal and then the Pels qualifying offer would be for $17.6 mil. Now, if he signs a rookie max with the Pels instead of taking the QO, then he makes something north of $30 mil in year 5. But, if anyone can turn down an extra $13-15 million dollars, it is a guy who has already made $60+ mil in his young career.

    I would love for Nawlins to get good teammates around Zion who make this club into a contender, but if they don't then Zion should find a club elsewhere that is better suited to give him the rings his talent should produce.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  9. #469
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Zion is going to have a real debate on his hands... the Pels will offer him a max extension, but the smart move might be to just take the 1-year qualifying offer that New Orleans makes at the end of his rookie deal and become a free agent after season #5. Of course, the issue there would be that he has an injury history and if he gets hurt his value could plummet.

    Still, he cannot be happy with the way the Pelicans have built around him.

    One reason he might be willing to risk it is that, as a #1 overall pick, his rookie contract has been pretty sizeable already. By the end of this season, he will be at just over $30 mil in NBA earnings. He is due to make $13.5 mil next year in the final year of his rookie deal and then the Pels qualifying offer would be for $17.6 mil. Now, if he signs a rookie max with the Pels instead of taking the QO, then he makes something north of $30 mil in year 5. But, if anyone can turn down an extra $13-15 million dollars, it is a guy who has already made $60+ mil in his young career.

    I would love for Nawlins to get good teammates around Zion who make this club into a contender, but if they don't then Zion should find a club elsewhere that is better suited to give him the rings his talent should produce.
    With his health and conditioning concerns he should take whatever guaranteed money he can get IMO. Who knows what happens to his value while he's playing on that one year qualifying deal.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldBattleship View Post
    I came into the season willing to give David Griffin and co the benefit of the doubt for the Pels' offseason restructuring, but I have to say that the early returns have... not been good. I get that Lonzo is a limited player, but he's been improving steadily for the past few years, and he looks like he took another step forward this year; no coincidence that he's been so good in Chicago thus far. And it's not like Devonte Graham is NOT limited. And Satoransky isn't even playing? Again, I get the theoretical appeal of Kira Lewis, but is there any actual there there?

    All of which is to say: this was not a good team last year (though they were, I think, a bit better than their record; still, how many close games can you lose down the stretch before that's just who you are?), and it's hard for me to see how they're going to be better this year unless Zion comes back and is magically even better than he was last year. Taking a step backwards like this without a clear plan forward makes no sense to me, and, to me, it's on Griffin and the roster construction.

    The Lonzo revisionism is pretty confounding to me. He may technically have a higher ceiling than Devonte Graham but he is/was feast or famine offensively and frankly not a great distributor, which ideally a point guard should be. I'm perfectly fine with the Pelicans not giving him a huge contract. He has absolutely no offensive game other than three pointing which is still a work in progress. I think it's an even trade with Devonte as far as production, with the benefit that one came drastically cheaper than the other.

    As far as Kira Lewis, I don't see much there either. He's fast, and that's about it.

  11. #471
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    With his health and conditioning concerns he should take whatever guaranteed money he can get IMO. Who knows what happens to his value while he's playing on that one year qualifying deal.
    I agree. His frame doesn't lend itself to long-term dominance. The human body isn't meant to do what he does at his size. So each year he plays he risks suffering a serious injury which destroys his value.

    I'd also say that, if he signs the long-term deal, he can still force a trade at some point down the road if he desires. Not that this is the desirable route, of course. But he should absolutely protect his financial future first.

  12. #472
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    And the player starting in Zion's place is averaging 3.2 points and 2.4 rebounds per game. Holy Drop-off, Batman! Unfortunately, they will probably find themselves in too big of a hole to get out of by the time Zion is back, and even then he's supposed to be limited in minutes for a while. Josh Hart also is hurt and out for some time.

    They are getting very little from their bench, which was a problem last year, too. Really, none of their recent draft picks other than Zion have paid dividends. Alexander-Walker is capable of having a big game, but he's a career sub-40% shooter and 33% from 3 with low assist numbers.
    I'm holding out judgement on the Pelicans roster, etc. until I see how the team does with Zion on the court. The last couple of seasons I thought the coaching staff did a poor job of maximizing the talent they had. Specifically, they never seemed to use Ingram and Zion together. I think they could run teams into the ground with a P+R using Zion and BI, for example. I really hope Zion can come back soon and come back strong...he's just too much fun to watch.

    The think I liked most about Ball is that he worked well with Zion. He understood that the ball needed to go to Zion and did a nice job of trying to be the 3-D-pass_first_PG kind of guy. My biggest issue with Ball is that he would look great one game and then just disappear in the next. I bet he ended up with a good 3p shooting percentage but I swear he would go 4-6 one game and 1-6 the next. And these open open looks because of Zion in the paint.

    At the beginning of last year, I thought Stephen Adams was going to be a good addition (I wasn't a big Favors fan). But as the season went on, I realized that his best days are likely behind him. It just looked like he couldn't score at all and was just slow enough to not be good enough on defense.

    I really like what I saw from Josh Hart last year. I think he could be a GREAT 6th man and I think having him out of the lineup is a big deal. If they are losing close games now, seems like adding Hart and then Zion will make a positive difference.

    It would be helpful if BI was a more willing passer. In particular when Zion is available. This goes back to the two of them working together. I suspect that BI would get the ball back for better shots more than he knows. BI is amazing and Zion is amazing...but until they figure out how to complement each other this team won't reach its potential.

    I'd really like to just seem them move forward and make the playoffs. I mean who doesn't want to see Zion play in the playoffs?

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    The smart move might be to just take the 1-year qualifying offer that New Orleans makes at the end of his rookie deal and become a free agent after season #5. Of course, the issue there would be that he has an injury history and if he gets hurt his value could plummet.
    Kevin Durant got hurt right before free agency with a far worse injury (Achilles Tendon tear) than anything Zion has ever had, and his value didnít plummet at all. And he was at least a decade older than Zion when he suffered that awful injury.

    Kyrie Irving has had as many injuries as just about anybody in the league, including a knee injury that was at least as serious as any injury Zion has had, and his value didnít seem to plummet at all.

    If I were Zion I would take the risk in order to get the hell out of New Orleans. Otherwise, heís going to end up like Archie Manning. And Zion has reached a higher level of performance than Archie ever did, so it would be an even bigger shame if he were stuck in New Orleans for the vast majority of his career.

  14. #474
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    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Kevin Durant got hurt right before free agency with a far worse injury (Achilles Tendon tear) than anything Zion has ever had, and his value didn’t plummet at all. And he was at least a decade older than Zion when he suffered that awful injury.

    Kyrie Irving has had as many injuries as just about anybody in the league, including a knee injury that was at least as serious as any injury Zion has had, and his value didn’t seem to plummet at all.

    If I were Zion I would take the risk in order to get the hell out of New Orleans. Otherwise, he’s going to end up like Archie Manning.
    It isn't just the severity of the injury, it is the frequency. How many healthy seasons will Zion have had by then?

  15. #475
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Kevin Durant got hurt right before free agency with a far worse injury (Achilles Tendon tear) than anything Zion has ever had, and his value didnít plummet at all. And he was at least a decade older than Zion when he suffered that awful injury.

    Kyrie Irving has had as many injuries as just about anybody in the league, including a knee injury that was at least as serious as any injury Zion has had, and his value didnít seem to plummet at all.
    Both of those players were older, though, and had a firmly established, elite-level track record in the league. Zion has part of one season, and most of another. Yes, the elite level has been there when he's played, but he has played in only roughly half of his team's games so far, and this year is off to a bad start, as well. If he ever does play through a full season (or even 90% of a season, if any injuries are of the minor or fluke variety), he'll certainly get the same buckets of money thrown in his general direction as those two guys. Until that happens, though, I wouldn't hold my breath. Right now he just screams risk.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    Both of those players were older, though, and had a firmly established, elite-level track record in the league. Zion has part of one season, and most of another. Yes, the elite level has been there when he's played, but he has played in only roughly half of his team's games so far, and this year is off to a bad start, as well. If he ever does play through a full season (or even 90% of a season, if any injuries are of the minor or fluke variety), he'll certainly get the same buckets of money thrown in his general direction as those two guys. Until that happens, though, I wouldn't hold my breath. Right now he just screams risk.
    Zion already has multi-generational wealth form his endorsement deals, which are much bigger than his NBA salary. I think his biggest aspiration is to be a generational great, and to do that he needs to be on a team that can compete for a championship, which could also push his full salary plus endorsements earning potential to the billionaire range. If he signs a one-year deal and it doesn't work out with injuries, he will still have his multi-generational wealth. Unless the Pelicans make significant progress building a team around him, I would think he'll look to move on sooner rather than later, like most other young NBA superstars do.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    Zion already has multi-generational wealth form his endorsement deals, which are much bigger than his NBA salary. I think his biggest aspiration is to be a generational great, and to do that he needs to be on a team that can compete for a championship, which could also push his full salary plus endorsements earning potential to the billionaire range. If he signs a one-year deal and it doesn't work out with injuries, he will still have his multi-generational wealth. Unless the Pelicans make significant progress building a team around him, I would think he'll look to move on sooner rather than later, like most other young NBA superstars do.
    You took the words right out of my mouth.

    ó Song by Meat Loaf

  18. #478
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    Nov 2007
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    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    Zion already has multi-generational wealth form his endorsement deals, which are much bigger than his NBA salary. I think his biggest aspiration is to be a generational great, and to do that he needs to be on a team that can compete for a championship, which could also push his full salary plus endorsements earning potential to the billionaire range. If he signs a one-year deal and it doesn't work out with injuries, he will still have his multi-generational wealth. Unless the Pelicans make significant progress building a team around him, I would think he'll look to move on sooner rather than later, like most other young NBA superstars do.
    very good point, but Zion would also do well to improve on what he CAN control such as his subpar conditioning (weight). I think Zion faces as much peril from himself as he does from the Pels. If the Pels continue to suck, he can bail when he's still a very young man.

  19. #479
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    Zion already has multi-generational wealth form his endorsement deals, which are much bigger than his NBA salary. I think his biggest aspiration is to be a generational great, and to do that he needs to be on a team that can compete for a championship, which could also push his full salary plus endorsements earning potential to the billionaire range. If he signs a one-year deal and it doesn't work out with injuries, he will still have his multi-generational wealth. Unless the Pelicans make significant progress building a team around him, I would think he'll look to move on sooner rather than later, like most other young NBA superstars do.
    Yeah, that's a fair point. He's going to need to stay on the court to do either of those things, obviously, but endorsements have to play a significant role in his decision-making. It's not clear how Forbe's is calculating his endorsement money (year-by-year, or everything counts in the year the deal is signed), but it is possible that his endorsements already exceed his salary.

  20. #480
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    How do the endorsements compare to the likely value of his next big contract, though? He's not risking his current contract, he's risking the next one, so it seems like that's what we should be comparing the endorsement money to (it should be quite a bit bigger than the current one).

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