Dukies in the NBA 2021-22

[TheOldBattleship]

You did say "Grayson's rep" as opposed to the factual basis for it, and the comments below are not directed at you, TOB. I thought the only things "over the top" in the Grant Williams incident were the announcers. They went bananas because of Grayson's college rep and, quite frankly, his appearance -- there are no penalties for taking shots at Grayson. The first foul was when Grayson reacted to a shove from Williams, who then took a dive. The second was a hard foul where he got a lot of ball.

But let's look at the record as of today:

• The reigning NBA champion Bucks traded for him.
• They inserted him in the starting lineup.
• The coach loves him.
• The locker room is totally behind him.
• And, somehow, he's an embarrassment to himself, the NBA and Duke? Gimme a break!

Yeah, totally agreed that this is a very meta discussion (and kind of has to be, right?), much more about various levels of people's perceptions of Grayson (the media generally, the fans, the general NBA community, and his own team) than about his conduct in a total vacuum. It is funny/sad how impossible it is to shed a reputation for chippiness/dirtiness once you have it for a certain kind of role-player, and how there's such a confirmation bias with Grayson, who hasn't had any other controversy this year. But that said, I do think that it's not solely a baseless narrative: as others have noted, Grayson has the combination of a temper prone to sudden outbursts of fairly spiteful action AND the kind of competitive try-hardness that coaches love but that occasionally puts him (and, unfortunately, as in the case of Caruso, others) in compromised situations.

Again, though, I don't think this necessary has any significant effect on his career, though I also don't see him as the kind of personality who would even really want to ride this vibe to bigger recognition/contracts as someone like PatBev or Matthew Dellevadova have done in building really notable NBA careers off of being the guy that everyone other than their current teammates hates. Milwaukee as an organization clearly likes him, and it's hard to find a better public defender than Khris Middleton, who is a pretty universally beloved and respected guy across the league. As long as he can hit the three and do a reasonable job defending and being a tertiary creator off the bounce, he'll be fine careerwise.

[TheOldBattleship]

On a happier note, some strong performances from familiar names around the league tonight! Obviously, Tatum is the headliner with 51/10/7 on 18/28 from the field and 9/14 from three. Yeesh. The highlights are a thing of beauty. His shooting has not been consistently good this year, but when he's on, he's easily one of the most unstoppable guys in the league. But in the interest of spreading the love:

Wendell Carter had a really strong game in an Orlando win against a really banged up Bulls team: 19/7 with three blocks on 8/12 from the field and 2/3 from three. He's been on the rise throughout the year as his role has become more and more defined (and as it's become more clear that giving Wendell and Franz Wagner more responsibility and relying less on Cole Anthony/Jalen Suggs running pick-and-roll/hero ball is a good strategy going forward). Very interested to see where his career goes: he got his big 4 yr/$50 mil extension in October with the Magic, and you have to think he's one of their centerpieces going forward. Will they keep playing him with Mo Bamba? What happens when Jonathan Isaac comes back (good lord, it's been a year and a half out for Isaac at this point, and, from the outside, it seems like he might be leaning into his... political activities rather than his rehab)?

RJ Barrett continued his good play of late with a 28/14/6 beauty (marred only by his taking and missing a ton of shots at the end of the game when it was more or less already over to tank his FG%). Julius Randle was solid today, as well (a rare occasion for him and RJ to both play well at the same time), though 7 TOs is a LOT. Cam Reddish got in a tiny bit and scored his first NY bucket, too.

Big Kyrie night against my TWolves tonight: 30/6/5. Luckily, Harden didn't come to play (and KD was out), so Minny was able to outscore the Nets to get a crucial win. Praying for Anthony Edwards's ankle...

[DoubleBlue]

On a happier note, some strong performances from familiar names around the league tonight! Obviously, Tatum is the headliner with 51/10/7 on 18/28 from the field and 9/14 from three. Yeesh. The highlights are a thing of beauty. His shooting has not been consistently good this year, but when he's on, he's easily one of the most unstoppable guys in the league. But in the interest of spreading the love:

Wendell Carter had a really strong game in an Orlando win against a really banged up Bulls team: 19/7 with three blocks on 8/12 from the field and 2/3 from three. He's been on the rise throughout the year as his role has become more and more defined (and as it's become more clear that giving Wendell and Franz Wagner more responsibility and relying less on Cole Anthony/Jalen Suggs running pick-and-roll/hero ball is a good strategy going forward). Very interested to see where his career goes: he got his big 4 yr/$50 mil extension in October with the Magic, and you have to think he's one of their centerpieces going forward. Will they keep playing him with Mo Bamba? What happens when Jonathan Isaac comes back (good lord, it's been a year and a half out for Isaac at this point, and, from the outside, it seems like he might be leaning into his... political activities rather than his rehab)?

RJ Barrett continued his good play of late with a 28/14/6 beauty (marred only by his taking and missing a ton of shots at the end of the game when it was more or less already over to tank his FG%). Julius Randle was solid today, as well (a rare occasion for him and RJ to both play well at the same time), though 7 TOs is a LOT. Cam Reddish got in a tiny bit and scored his first NY bucket, too.

Big Kyrie night against my TWolves tonight: 30/6/5. Luckily, Harden didn't come to play (and KD was out), so Minny was able to outscore the Nets to get a crucial win. Praying for Anthony Edwards's ankle...

Thanks for the summary! 176 points were scored by Dukies in the NBA yesterday. That's got to be a record! http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html

[jv001]

On a happier note, some strong performances from familiar names around the league tonight! Obviously, Tatum is the headliner with 51/10/7 on 18/28 from the field and 9/14 from three. Yeesh. The highlights are a thing of beauty. His shooting has not been consistently good this year, but when he's on, he's easily one of the most unstoppable guys in the league. But in the interest of spreading the love:

Wendell Carter had a really strong game in an Orlando win against a really banged up Bulls team: 19/7 with three blocks on 8/12 from the field and 2/3 from three. He's been on the rise throughout the year as his role has become more and more defined (and as it's become more clear that giving Wendell and Franz Wagner more responsibility and relying less on Cole Anthony/Jalen Suggs running pick-and-roll/hero ball is a good strategy going forward). Very interested to see where his career goes: he got his big 4 yr/$50 mil extension in October with the Magic, and you have to think he's one of their centerpieces going forward. Will they keep playing him with Mo Bamba? What happens when Jonathan Isaac comes back (good lord, it's been a year and a half out for Isaac at this point, and, from the outside, it seems like he might be leaning into his... political activities rather than his rehab)?

RJ Barrett continued his good play of late with a 28/14/6 beauty (marred only by his taking and missing a ton of shots at the end of the game when it was more or less already over to tank his FG%). Julius Randle was solid today, as well (a rare occasion for him and RJ to both play well at the same time), though 7 TOs is a LOT. Cam Reddish got in a tiny bit and scored his first NY bucket, too.

Big Kyrie night against my TWolves tonight: 30/6/5. Luckily, Harden didn't come to play (and KD was out), so Minny was able to outscore the Nets to get a crucial win. Praying for Anthony Edwards's ankle...

RJ was also 7-7 FTs and 3-5 on three pointers. Along with his 6 assists, he only had 1 turnover. A very good night.

GoDuke!

[Blue in the Face]

Cam Reddish got in a tiny bit and scored his first NY bucket, too.

Cam also got a nice hand from the crowd when he entered the game for the first time as a Knick, which he seemed to appreciate.

[elvis14]

Because no one who is smart with a good education makes mistakes? I can rattle off dozens of counter-examples from my personal experiences.

Look, we've doped this out for years here. Allen's a good guy. He's an exceptional athlete.

And sometimes, he gets over his skis competitively and makes a dumb mistake. Fool me once, twice, three times a lady.

We're a Duke board, and we defend our own. I get that. But this ain't a media problem.

If Grayson went to UNC, we'd crucify him.

I'll take the hate and flames and let y'all discuss.

If Grayson went to UNC, or anywhere else really, we wouldn't even know about any of the 'tripping' incidents or other 'hard fouls'. The first tripping thing was the lead story on ESPN for days and bled into non-sports news and psudeo-news stations. In that case, the only reason GA was given a "T" was because the refs didn't call a foul on GA (or the guy who knocked him down) and the ball went out of bounds. So the refs had 2 choices: give the ball to Duke or call a "T". Had they called GA for a foul like they should have it's a big nothing burger.

Had Grayson not been at Duke and very visible those minor issues wouldn't have been headline news (ESPN hit pieces) and that 'reputation' would be nothing like it was/is. In the NBA, Grayson has done very little in the way of causing issues. There was one time where the got tangled up with Trae Young and ESPN tried to play the "tripping" click-bait card again and it didn't really go anywhere.

I feel bad that Caruso was injured but F2 was absolutely the wrong call here. GA was making a play on the ball and came up a bit short. From that same night someone already posted a video worse than GA's foul that was a F1 and was given very little if no media coverage.

Allen has made mistakes but when a mistake is on a level 2 (or 3 or 4) and the media treats it as a level 12 it's unfortunate and in the case of GA, consistent. He has to do it cleaner than every else or ESPN will crucify him...and he doesn't.

[sagegrouse]

If Grayson went to UNC, or anywhere else really, we wouldn't even know about any of the 'tripping' incidents or other 'hard fouls'. The first tripping thing was the lead story on ESPN for days and bled into non-sports news and psudeo-news stations. In that case, the only reason GA was given a "T" was because the refs didn't call a foul on GA (or the guy who knocked him down) and the ball went out of bounds. So the refs had 2 choices: give the ball to Duke or call a "T". Had they called GA for a foul like they should have it's a big nothing burger.

Had Grayson not been at Duke and very visible those minor issues wouldn't have been headline news (ESPN hit pieces) and that 'reputation' would be nothing like it was/is. In the NBA, Grayson has done very little in the way of causing issues. There was one time where the got tangled up with Trae Young and ESPN tried to play the "tripping" click-bait card again and it didn't really go anywhere.

I feel bad that Caruso was injured but F2 was absolutely the wrong call here. GA was making a play on the ball and came up a bit short. From that same night someone already posted a video worse than GA's foul that was a F1 and was given very little if no media coverage.

Allen has made mistakes but when a mistake is on a level 2 (or 3 or 4) and the media treats it as a level 12 it's unfortunate and in the case of GA, consistent. He has to do it cleaner than every else or ESPN will crucify him...and he doesn't.

The trip against Elon in December wasn't as big an issue as his meltdown on the bench. That led K to suspend him, and to remove his captaincy. "Leaders" don't fall apart in front of the troops, the general and a national TV audience. And, of course, the term "indefinite suspension" keeps the story alive for weeks. In fact, he sat for only one game -- but the melody lingers on.

Just my opinion, but feel strongly about it.

[Steven43]

The trip against Elon in December wasn't as big an issue as his meltdown on the bench. That led K to suspend him, and to remove his captaincy. "Leaders" don't fall apart in front of the troops, the general and a national TV audience. And, of course, the term "indefinite suspension" keeps the story alive for weeks. In fact, he sat for only one game -- but the melody lingers on.

Just my opinion, but feel strongly about it.

You say you feel strongly about it, but I’m not sure exactly what you’re trying to say. I can’t tell if you’re putting Grayson down or defending him. Perhaps neither?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You say you feel strongly about it, but I’m not sure exactly what you’re trying to say. I can’t tell if you’re putting Grayson down or defending him. Perhaps neither?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

[Steven43]

Why does it have to be one or the other?

I did not say it has to be one or the other.

I simply asked for clarity.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I did not say it has to be one or the other.

I simply asked for clarity.

I'm just saying - if it wasn't clear, likely the poster wasn't doing either.

[Steven43]

I'm just saying - if it wasn't clear, likely the poster wasn't doing either.

Yeah, you’re probably right.

[rsvman]

The trip against Elon in December wasn't as big an issue as his meltdown on the bench. That led K to suspend him, and to remove his captaincy. "Leaders" don't fall apart in front of the troops, the general and a national TV audience. And, of course, the term "indefinite suspension" keeps the story alive for weeks. In fact, he sat for only one game -- but the melody lingers on.

Just my opinion, but feel strongly about it.

I know the word is often used in a different context, but strictly speaking, indefinite doesn't mean a long time. It means that at the time the suspension was handed out, the duration of the suspension had not yet been decided. That's what the word indefinite means.
It was later decided that it would be one game. It was no longer indefinite at that point, because its length had been defined.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

If Grayson went to UNC, or anywhere else really, we wouldn't even know about any of the 'tripping' incidents or other 'hard fouls'. The first tripping thing was the lead story on ESPN for days and bled into non-sports news and psudeo-news stations. In that case, the only reason GA was given a "T" was because the refs didn't call a foul on GA (or the guy who knocked him down) and the ball went out of bounds. So the refs had 2 choices: give the ball to Duke or call a "T". Had they called GA for a foul like they should have it's a big nothing burger.

Had Grayson not been at Duke and very visible those minor issues wouldn't have been headline news (ESPN hit pieces) and that 'reputation' would be nothing like it was/is. In the NBA, Grayson has done very little in the way of causing issues. There was one time where the got tangled up with Trae Young and ESPN tried to play the "tripping" click-bait card again and it didn't really go anywhere.

I feel bad that Caruso was injured but F2 was absolutely the wrong call here. GA was making a play on the ball and came up a bit short. From that same night someone already posted a video worse than GA's foul that was a F1 and was given very little if no media coverage.

Allen has made mistakes but when a mistake is on a level 2 (or 3 or 4) and the media treats it as a level 12 it's unfortunate and in the case of GA, consistent. He has to do it cleaner than every else or ESPN will crucify him...and he doesn't.

Not just any Duke guy, he had inherited the hated, white Duke villain throne.

[Furniture]

I know the word is often used in a different context, but strictly speaking, indefinite doesn't mean a long time. It means that at the time the suspension was handed out, the duration of the suspension had not yet been decided. That's what the word indefinite means.
It was later decided that it would be one game. It was no longer indefinite at that point, because its length had been defined.

Argh! Nice one. I never thought of it like that but strictly speaking you are correct...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Not just any Duke guy, he had inherited the hated, white Duke villain throne.

Please name another "white Duke villain' who carried this mantle into the NBA.

I'm really tired of this idea.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Please name another "white Duke villain' who carried this mantle into the NBA.

I'm really tired of this idea.

Agreed.

Redick and Laettner - two of the most hated Duke players - weren't villainized in the NBA. And that's cus they weren't deemed as dirty coming into the league (Laettner's 'stomp' gets mitigated by the fact he made 'the shot' in the exact same game. Fair or unfair). Arrogance is forgivable; playing dirty isn't.

Allen is on a different level, and that's because he is viewed as a 'dirty player'. He's carried that stigma with him to the NBA. White or not white, he's just an unlikable player to a lot of folks, including many Duke fans.

Sidenote: I don't think there's a more polarizing Duke player than Grayson Allen. I know Duke fans who love him. I know Duke fans who hate him.

[sagegrouse]

You say you feel strongly about it, but I’m not sure exactly what you’re trying to say. I can’t tell if you’re putting Grayson down or defending him. Perhaps neither?

That his meltdown on the bench was more the cause of his problems and rep than the trip itself, for the reasons I detailed.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Agreed.

Redick and Laettner - two of the most hated Duke players, weren't villainized in the NBA. And that's cus they weren't deemed as dirty coming into the league (Laettner's 'stomp' gets mitigated by the fact he made 'the shot'. Fair or unfair). Arrogance is forgivable; playing dirty isn't.

Allen is on a different level, and that's because he is viewed as a 'dirty player'. He's carried that stigma with him to the NBA. White or not white, he's just an unlikable player to a lot of folks, including many Duke fans.

Sidenote: I don't think there's a more polarizing Duke player than Grayson Allen. I know Duke fans who love him. I know Duke fans who hate him.

Largely, people watching NBA don't give a rip about where someone played college ball. They might be vaguely aware of a player like Zion at Duke, but he's an outlier.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Largely, people watching NBA don't give a rip about where someone played college ball. They might be vaguely aware of a player like Zion at Duke, but he's an outlier.

I'd argue they are aware of specific incidences, both positive and negative. NBA fans know Laettner hit that shot against Kentucky. NBA fans know Allen tripped multiple players. NBA fans know Zion's shoe exploded.