Duke requires masking at all indoor and ourdoor athletic venues

[Steven43]

Where do you see a report from Israel that (a) supports the conclusion that the vaccine "does nothing to stop the spread of COVID"; and (b) bases that conclusion on studies more trustworthy than those on which the CDC relies? The only reports I've seen from official government sources in Israel have shown that while there have been a higher number of "breakthrough" cases than with the original strain of the virus -- partly because a higher percentage of the population there has been vaccinated -- the vaccine is still substantially effective at preventing infections.

The India Times article you cite does not support your assertions. The fact that Israel is experiencing a higher number of breakthrough cases does not equate to a conclusion that the vaccine "does nothing to stop the spread." Indeed, if the effectiveness is still 66%, that's better protection than we normally get from the annual flu shot. Even if the effectiveness drops to 40%, as you predict (apparently without accounting for the rollout of booster shots), it seems evident that the vaccine will be a valuable asset in the battle to limit the suffering caused by this virus.

Yes, and it’s not really infection rate that matters so much as the fact that the vaccine offers dramatically more protection from the ravages of the virus than does being unvaccinated.

Our hospitals are filled to the brim with unvaccinated Covid patients with nary (by comparison) a vaccinated Covid patient to be found. The numbers are astonishing. All things considered the vaccine is miraculously effective.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You need Google to answer? Yikes.

Misinformation? Nope, I’ve provided a nice example for you. Enjoy dinner, I’ll be looking forward to your reply from Google!

Is Facebook a better source? Asking for a friend.

[jimsumner]

Agreed, and hopefully it’s working but the largest dataset isn’t awesome as we progress (Israel). Record numbers fully vaccinated but record cases and deaths yesterday.

You do realize that the people getting vaccinated and the people dying are different people?

[quickgtp]

Is Facebook a better source? Asking for a friend.

You’re on Facebook? Yikes.

[quickgtp]

You do realize that the people getting vaccinated and the people dying are different people?

Again, that’s not my point.

You do realize that my point is vaccinated spread the virus just the same?

Back to your point: I have lost 2 vaccinated friends to covid and 2 not vaccinated (1 to Alpha). I’ve also had a renal infarction from Pfizer (x2) and I’ve got an uncle fighting myocarditis and associated paroxysmal a-fib (never dx before admittance) from his vaccine (day 2 admitted). Now I’m just citing n=6 here but still it’s an example of a far from perfect situation.

[quickgtp]

Where do you see a report from Israel that (a) supports the conclusion that the vaccine "does nothing to stop the spread of COVID"; and (b) bases that conclusion on studies more trustworthy than those on which the CDC relies? The only reports I've seen from official government sources in Israel have shown that while there have been a higher number of "breakthrough" cases than with the original strain of the virus -- partly because a higher percentage of the population there has been vaccinated -- the vaccine is still substantially effective at preventing infections.

The India Times article you cite does not support your assertions. The fact that Israel is experiencing a higher number of breakthrough cases does not equate to a conclusion that the vaccine "does nothing to stop the spread." Indeed, if the effectiveness is still 66%, that's better protection than we normally get from the annual flu shot. Even if the effectiveness drops to 40%, as you predict (apparently without accounting for the rollout of booster shots), it seems evident that the vaccine will be a valuable asset in the battle to limit the suffering caused by this virus.

What is better, a report or factual data? It’s scary knowing there are people like you who ignore the hard evidence all while looking at marketing pieces.

https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/il

Have you checked Israel’s data as they continue to fully vaccinated? And yes, record cases and deaths, as reported by the article, support my point.

[quickgtp]

Yes, and it’s not really infection rate that matters so much as the fact that the vaccine offers dramatically more protection from the ravages of the virus than does being unvaccinated.

Our hospitals are filled to the brim with unvaccinated Covid patients with nary (by comparison) a vaccinated Covid patient to be found. The numbers are astonishing. All things considered the vaccine is miraculously effective.

Which hospitals? Curious to see their data if you can share. Thx.

Too bad they’re ineffective at reducing transmission, which tends to dictate closures and ineffective mask mandates.

[Steven43]

Which hospitals? Curious to see their data if you can share. Thx.

Too bad they’re ineffective at reducing transmission, which tends to dictate closures and ineffective mask mandates.

Which hospitals? Well, for starters look at the data from hospitals in the communities that have the highest percentages of unvaccinated people as well as the cities and states that have had the loosest mask mandates.

The correlation is all too obvious.

[quickgtp]

Which hospitals? Well, for starters look at the data from hospitals in the communities that have the highest percentages of unvaccinated people as well as the cities and states that have had the loosest mask mandates.

The correlation is all too obvious.

Cool, so you can’t cite any. Bravo.

And stop with the mask argument; that’s lame. I’ll just look at places like DC and Hawaii that when they implemented mask mandates, infection rates skyrocketed. And they’re not the only two...DC as example went live 7/31. Since? Tripled daily case counts 4 weeks later. Ouch.

https://coronavirus.dc.gov/data

Or I could look at any of these 40+ studies showing ineffectiveness against influenza, which crazy enough has a larger particle size per distribution.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR2V1hPqN0WKb2kXVExP_1UE9ARv ru6mtPZvZN0w1jx0S3l3fXLhxMP_bXs

[UrinalCake]

I have seen data that supports quickgtp's assertion that vaccinated people can carry and transmit the virus at the same rate as unvaccinated. Or at least at levels higher than were originally thought. But claiming that "vaccination does nothing to stop the spread of [covid]" is grossly misleading to the point of being flat out wrong. If you play a game in an arena with 20k vaccinated fans and 1% of them are carrying the covid virus, and separately play another game in an arena with 20k unvaccinated fans and 1% of of them are carrying the virus, then after that second game there will be many times the number of positive cases a week later.

[quickgtp]

I have seen data that supports quickgtp's assertion that vaccinated people can carry and transmit the virus at the same rate as unvaccinated. Or at least at levels higher than were originally thought. But claiming that "vaccination does nothing to stop the spread of [covid]" is grossly misleading to the point of being flat out wrong. If you play a game in an arena with 20k vaccinated fans and 1% of them are carrying the covid virus, and separately play another game in an arena with 20k unvaccinated fans and 1% of of them are carrying the virus, then after that second game there will be many times the number of positive cases a week later.

Lol so they spread it the same, but in your example you attempt to refute that. Or did you mean hospitalizations for your example? If so that potentially makes sense. Or maybe you meant symptomatic versus asymptomatic cases?

Israel has clearly shown the vaccinations don’t stop the spread, but at least it could be lower illness severity.

[Steven43]

Cool, so you can’t cite any. Bravo.

And stop with the mask argument; that’s lame. I’ll just look at places like DC and Hawaii that when they implemented mask mandates, infection rates skyrocketed. And they’re not the only two...DC as example went live 7/31. Since? Tripled daily case counts 4 weeks later. Ouch.

https://coronavirus.dc.gov/data

Or I could look at any of these 40+ studies showing ineffectiveness against influenza, which crazy enough has a larger particle size per distribution.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR2V1hPqN0WKb2kXVExP_1UE9ARv ru6mtPZvZN0w1jx0S3l3fXLhxMP_bXs

I could cite plenty. I’m not inclined to do your homework for you.

Are you new here or something? Because yours is not the measured, respectful attitude that is the expected norm on DBR.

[quickgtp]

I could cite plenty. I’m not inclined to do your homework for you.

Are you new here or something? Because yours is not the measured, respectful attitude that is the expected norm on DBR.

Since 4/08, but I don’t post often. How you interpret my tone is up to you. I’m just here to clarify a couple points. It’s important to me, not for political reasons like many, but for my career.

And I appreciate you not being able to cite examples. All good. Just so we are clear that the “vaccine” doesn’t prevent spread and it’s losing effectiveness rapidly as compared to other vaccines across multiple disease types.

[OldPhiKap]

I will say again: I fail to see why folks try to use facts and logic in arguments like these. The anti-vaxxers will not be convinced. They are not looking to be convinced. You are wasting your energy.

Either mandate the shots, or we keep living with this crap. This is not difficult. Stop coddling people that interfere with public health.

Or, as a society we keep thinking that absurd face-free opinions are just as valid as expert medical opinions and let this fester in the false name of “liberty.”

[quickgtp]

I will say again: I fail to see why folks try to use facts and logic in arguments like these. The anti-vaxxers will not be convinced. They are not looking to be convinced. You are wasting your energy.

Either mandate the shots, or we keep living with this crap. This is not difficult. Stop coddling people that interfere with public health.

Or, as a society we keep thinking that absurd face-free opinions are just as valid as expert medical opinions and let this fester in the false name of “liberty.”

The definition of idiocy:

Telling someone they’re anti-vax, even though they’re fully vaccinated.

I do love your political poke there though - you provide a beautiful example of what I’ve been saying.

Now if you can explain Israel to me, I’d love to read it.

Lastly, are you actually believing that if everyone was fully vaccinated, this would go away? Wow.

[OldPhiKap]

The definition of idiocy:

Telling someone they’re anti-vax, even though they’re fully vaccinated.

I do love your political pole there though - you provide a beautiful example of what I’ve been saying.

I’m a beautiful person. It’s a blessing and a curse.

Sorry for confusing you for anti-vax. In retrospect, your posts are quite positive on them. My bad for missing your obvious pro-vax reasoning.

[sagegrouse]

The definition of idiocy:

Telling someone they’re anti-vax, even though they’re fully vaccinated.

I do love your political poke there though - you provide a beautiful example of what I’ve been saying.

Now if you can explain Israel to me, I’d love to read it.

Lastly, are you actually believing that if everyone was fully vaccinated, this would go away? Wow.

Aside from provoking everyone on DBR, what is your objective in these flame-throwing posts?

[Stray Gator]

What is better, a report or factual data? It’s scary knowing there are people like you who ignore the hard evidence all while looking at marketing pieces.

https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/il

Have you checked Israel’s data as they continue to fully vaccinated? And yes, record cases and deaths, as reported by the article, support my point.

The CDC website posts conclusions based on scientific studies by qualified medical and public health authorities. Yes, I trust that information more than an article from India Times.

As for your anecdotal evidence of problems encountered by yourself and friends and relatives, I'm sorry for your misfortune. But I have at least a dozen family members and more than two dozen friends who have been fully vaccinated for 5-7 months now -- some with Pfizer, some (including my wife and me) with Moderna, and a few (including our son) with J&J -- yet not one of them has contracted COVID or suffered any adverse effects beyond a sore arm and mild cold symptoms that dissipated within 24 hours. So I regret that you find it scary, but I'll rely on the database for which I have empirical evidence.

What's sad to me is knowing there are people like you who are prolonging and actively promoting the immeasurable misery of this pandemic by misleading innocent people into refusing to accept the one medical treatment that has proven successful in providing a substantial degree of protection against infection and even greater protection against severe symptoms, debilitating illness, hospitalization, and death. Whether you choose to believe them or not, the numbers don't lie; and the reliable data show numbers that flatly refute your stream of selective misinformation.

That your messages treat this issue as a laughing matter only tends to reinforce the suspicion that your motivation is grounded less in a legitimate desire to advance the community's knowledge and understanding of the relevant information than in a malevolent intent to do harm -- a purposeful falsification that is confirmed by your denial that hospitals in some states (including Florida, where I reside) have recently become filled to near capacity with patients suffering from COVID, the overwhelming majority of whom are unvaccinated. Your offhanded dismissal of the facts, when considered in light of the deteriorating situation that has forced some hospitals in these areas to delay or deny medical treatment to others in need, is nothing less than cruel. Fortunately, I doubt that anyone here will be fooled by your act.

[quickgtp]

I’m a beautiful person. It’s a blessing and a curse.

Sorry for confusing you for anti-vax. In retrospect, your posts are quite positive on them. My bad for missing your obvious pro-vax reasoning.

Thank you for confirming your tin hat conspiracy (I kid, I kid).

[quickgtp]

Aside from provoking everyone on DBR, what is your objective in these flame-throwing posts?

Have you read them fully? Cliff notes:

- the vaccines are not effective at reducing transmission (see Israel)
- they may reduce death counts (hoping this trend continues)
- they’re losing effectiveness (91% to 66% in less than 5 months)
- if someone even questions the cdc, they’re a delusional, liberty-craving fool
- masks....lol clinically ineffective in civilian settings against a variety of diseases including sars CoV 2

Hope that helps.