Duke requires masking at all indoor and ourdoor athletic venues

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The Duke-UNC game this year is in Chapel Hill. The home games are against NC A&T, Northwestern, Kansas, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, Louisville and Miami. None of these seem like the kind of opponent likely to bring substantial numbers of fans to Wade.

Unless the team wins a bunch of games!

Let's go Duke!

[budwom]

I imagine they could change the mask requirement if conditions warrant that. Just listened to our Gov outlining how forecasts from Harvard/Yale/Stanford say we're nearing the peak of our current wave, should see a decrease in cases soon. Hopefully that's true for NC as well...any idea of what NC modeling now shows?

[Acymetric]

I imagine they could change the mask requirement if conditions warrant that. Just listened to our Gov outlining how forecasts from Harvard/Yale/Stanford say we're nearing the peak of our current wave, should see a decrease in cases soon. Hopefully that's true for NC as well...any idea of what NC modeling now shows?

But if you lift the requirements after the wave is over, isn't that just setting the stage for the next wave?

[Stray Gator]

Probably because they don't want to refund ticket money to the anti-vaxers.

Given the demographics of Duke men's basketball season ticket purchasers, I'd guess that the Iron Dukes are likely to be confronted by a larger number of complaints from those who are unwilling to sit indoors elbow-to-elbow amidst a cheering crowd for over two hours unless proof of full vaccination is required -- including my wife and I, and many of our friends with whom we have customarily attended games in Cameron. Whether Duke will agree to refund the money already paid for season tickets to those aggrieved by whichever policy may ultimately be implemented is unclear; but if not, the Iron Dukes might encounter some resistance in seeking to collect on the yet-to-be-paid annual contribution pledges -- the total of which undoubtedly constitutes a substantially greater sum of money than season ticket sales.

I can see no justification for refusing to demand proof of vaccination as a condition of entry to crowded indoor gatherings at Duke. The "easier to police" excuse will not suffice, because reports of experiences from other recent athletic and entertainment events attended by large crowds indicate that the process of verifying proof of vaccination at points of entry can be conducted successfully without undue disruption or delay. The "compliance with government directives" excuse shouldn't work because Duke is a private institution, free to adopt more restrictive requirements for those who seek access to its premises. If there is some other reason, more sensible and sound, to warrant allowing unvaccinated people into games at Cameron, I'm willing to listen; but I don't want to hear that Duke is deferring to the Refuseniks as a courtesy, or out of respect for their "freedom of individual choice," or to avoid potential lawsuits and liability for monetary damages.

In my opinion, there is no longer any valid reason for any person in this country who is eligible to receive the COVID vaccination not to get it, other than those very few whose medical condition makes it contraindicated. That the three vaccines approved for emergency use are safe and effective has now been proven by experience beyond reasonable doubt or dispute. One need only examine the relative percentages of vaccinated and unvaccinated people who have been hospitalized or died during the recent Delta variant resurgence to see the truth about the efficacy of the vaccine. Numbers don't lie. Anyone who still fails to get vaccinated in the face of this vastly overwhelming, if not utterly indisputable, evidence is simply being irrational -- a Refusenik.

Turning back to the possible reasons for allowing unvaccinated people to attend games in Cameron, I believe that Refuseniks deserve no such courtesy or respect, because their choice to expose themselves and others to a potentially deadly or debilitating virus is a deliberate repudiation of any courtesy or respect for the rights of others. The Refusenik who protests that their decision only affects their own personal health and safety not only ignores the fact that they magnify the risk of infection for others, but that the Refusenik who gets COVID is more likely to develop severe illness and require extended hospitalization, which needlessly wastes limited health care resources and, as a more disturbing consequence, leaves others who urgently need medical care to suffer or die due to shortages of facilities, qualified personnel, and supplies.

As for the demand to exercise their "rights" and "freedom of individual choice," they conveniently ignore the fundamental requirement of our social contract: Every right imposes a corresponding, and equally important, responsibility to ensure that the exercise of that right does not cause harm to others. You want to exercise your right to drink? Fine, but you have a responsibility not to drive. You want to exercise your right to smoke? Fine, but you have a responsibility not to light up in places where others are entitled to a healthy, smoke-free environment. You want to exercise your right to own and carry a weapon? Fine, but you have a responsibility to keep it stored securely and not to use it except in self-defense. You want to exercise your right to free speech? Fine, but you have a responsibility to refrain from inciting violence or defaming others.

Essential to the social contract that binds every member of a democracy is a consensus that the one right which must prevail above all is this: The majority rules. In my judgment, the time has come for the sensible, responsible majority to step up, speak out, and put an end to this tyranny of the mad minority that has inexplicably gripped our country. Let the Refuseniks be restricted to grocery shopping between 7 am and 8 am on Wednesday mornings. Let the Refuseniks be limited to take-out or delivery meals from restaurants. Let the Refuseniks be left to live in a bubble, largely confined to their homes with little human interaction. And for purposes of the present discussion, let the Refuseniks be told that they cannot go shopping in stores or attend theaters, or concerts . . . or games in Cameron Indoor Stadium. Maybe experiencing some of the same restrictions that they have been forcing the rest of us to accept might awaken a realization that the rights of the majority deserve to be respected as well; and perhaps some of them may even decide that freedom -- and its protection for present and future generations -- is worth the small sacrifice of getting vaccinated.

[CameronBornAndBred]

one is far more easily to police than the other.

But it's not. Staff will know that anyone inside the gates is vaxxed (or negative with a recent test), which means they don't have to go yelling every time they see someone without a mask...which is going to keep them busy all day long.

[Steven43]

Probably because they don't want to refund ticket money to the anti-vaxers.

Duke alums are too well-educated to be anti-science. Surely there must be some other reason Duke Athletics is not yet requiring proof of vaccination to attend football games.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Duke alums are too well-educated to be anti-science. Surely there must be some other reason Duke Athletics is not yet requiring proof of vaccination to attend football games.

I would ask what percentage of football attendees are Duke alums.

[chrishoke]

Given the demographics of Duke men's basketball season ticket purchasers, I'd guess that the Iron Dukes are likely to be confronted by a larger number of complaints from those who are unwilling to sit indoors elbow-to-elbow amidst a cheering crowd for over two hours unless proof of full vaccination is required -- including my wife and I, and many of our friends with whom we have customarily attended games in Cameron. Whether Duke will agree to refund the money already paid for season tickets to those aggrieved by whichever policy may ultimately be implemented is unclear; but if not, the Iron Dukes might encounter some resistance in seeking to collect on the yet-to-be-paid annual contribution pledges -- the total of which undoubtedly constitutes a substantially greater sum of money than season ticket sales.

I can see no justification for refusing to demand proof of vaccination as a condition of entry to crowded indoor gatherings at Duke. The "easier to police" excuse will not suffice, because reports of experiences from other recent athletic and entertainment events attended by large crowds indicate that the process of verifying proof of vaccination at points of entry can be conducted successfully without undue disruption or delay. The "compliance with government directives" excuse shouldn't work because Duke is a private institution, free to adopt more restrictive requirements for those who seek access to its premises. If there is some other reason, more sensible and sound, to warrant allowing unvaccinated people into games at Cameron, I'm willing to listen; but I don't want to hear that Duke is deferring to the Refuseniks as a courtesy, or out of respect for their "freedom of individual choice," or to avoid potential lawsuits and liability for monetary damages.

In my opinion, there is no longer any valid reason for any person in this country who is eligible to receive the COVID vaccination not to get it, other than those very few whose medical condition makes it contraindicated. That the three vaccines approved for emergency use are safe and effective has now been proven by experience beyond reasonable doubt or dispute. One need only examine the relative percentages of vaccinated and unvaccinated people who have been hospitalized or died during the recent Delta variant resurgence to see the truth about the efficacy of the vaccine. Numbers don't lie. Anyone who still fails to get vaccinated in the face of this vastly overwhelming, if not utterly indisputable, evidence is simply being irrational -- a Refusenik.

Turning back to the possible reasons for allowing unvaccinated people to attend games in Cameron, I believe that Refuseniks deserve no such courtesy or respect, because their choice to expose themselves and others to a potentially deadly or debilitating virus is a deliberate repudiation of any courtesy or respect for the rights of others. The Refusenik who protests that their decision only affects their own personal health and safety not only ignores the fact that they magnify the risk of infection for others, but that the Refusenik who gets COVID is more likely to develop severe illness and require extended hospitalization, which needlessly wastes limited health care resources and, as a more disturbing consequence, leaves others who urgently need medical care to suffer or die due to shortages of facilities, qualified personnel, and supplies.

As for the demand to exercise their "rights" and "freedom of individual choice," they conveniently ignore the fundamental requirement of our social contract: Every right imposes a corresponding, and equally important, responsibility to ensure that the exercise of that right does not cause harm to others. You want to exercise your right to drink? Fine, but you have a responsibility not to drive. You want to exercise your right to smoke? Fine, but you have a responsibility not to light up in places where others are entitled to a healthy, smoke-free environment. You want to exercise your right to own and carry a weapon? Fine, but you have a responsibility to keep it stored securely and not to use it except in self-defense. You want to exercise your right to free speech? Fine, but you have a responsibility to refrain from inciting violence or defaming others.

Essential to the social contract that binds every member of a democracy is a consensus that the one right which must prevail above all is this: The majority rules. In my judgment, the time has come for the sensible, responsible majority to step up, speak out, and put an end to this tyranny of the mad minority that has inexplicably gripped our country. Let the Refuseniks be restricted to grocery shopping between 7 am and 8 am on Wednesday mornings. Let the Refuseniks be limited to take-out or delivery meals from restaurants. Let the Refuseniks be left to live in a bubble, largely confined to their homes with little human interaction. And for purposes of the present discussion, let the Refuseniks be told that they cannot go shopping in stores or attend theaters, or concerts . . . or games in Cameron Indoor Stadium. Maybe experiencing some of the same restrictions that they have been forcing the rest of us to accept might awaken a realization that the rights of the majority deserve to be respected as well; and perhaps some of them may even decide that freedom -- and its protection for present and future generations -- is worth the small sacrifice of getting vaccinated.

This deserves multiple sporks.

[TruBlu]

This deserves multiple sporks.

I did my part.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This deserves multiple sporks.

Way ahead of you.

[duke74]

The US Open, which began this week in NYC, is requiring proof of vaccine.

That is the good news. The bad news is that it looked like thousands of people were crammed together waiting to get into Arthur Ashe for night session last night. And they only required proof of the first shot.

And it took up to 2 1/2 hours to clear security.

[uh_no]

But it's not. Staff will know that anyone inside the gates is vaxxed (or negative with a recent test), which means they don't have to go yelling every time they see someone without a mask...which is going to keep them busy all day long.

You HAVE dealt with security for basektball and football games, right? You're asking them to also decide whether a proof of vaccination is valid? With any reasonable amount of hassle for it? Sorry...I just don't see it. It's easy to say whether someone is wearing a mask.

Remember, I actually work the games, and as the person who would be enforcing the masks in cameron, I STILL think it's more viable than trying to get staff1 to ensure people have a proper proof of vaccination.

Maybe it will happen. It will also be a SS if it does, I think.

[budwom]

^ yes, having seen the personnel and scene at WW, I can't even imagine handing them the task of determining vaccination status. Inconceivable.

[scottdude8]

But that's kind of the whole point. The risk of spread is still present, but it is reduced dramatically outside. And spread among the vaccinated is also much less worrisome generally. Plenty of folks would still choose to wear masks. But requiring it, and not requiring vaccination, seems a bit out of step with what we know now. Allowing unvaccinated folks to attend is a much greater risk in my view.

Ahh, I see your point now, my bad! I 100% agree that doing this (seemingly) instead of mandating vaccination is an odd choice, especially considering how forceful Duke has been in mandating vaccination for students and employees.

FWIW, from what we are learning about Delta having everyone vaccinated wouldn't necessarily eliminate the need for masks, especially indoors. There's strong emerging evidence that vaccinated individuals can essentially serve as "asymptomatic spreaders" for Delta (much like we were worried about at the beginning of the pandemic) given the increased viral load.

In a perfect world, any high-density gathering would require both vaccinations and masking for optimal safety o

[scottdude8]

Given the demographics of Duke men's basketball season ticket purchasers, I'd guess that the Iron Dukes are likely to be confronted by a larger number of complaints from those who are unwilling to sit indoors elbow-to-elbow amidst a cheering crowd for over two hours unless proof of full vaccination is required -- including my wife and I, and many of our friends with whom we have customarily attended games in Cameron. Whether Duke will agree to refund the money already paid for season tickets to those aggrieved by whichever policy may ultimately be implemented is unclear; but if not, the Iron Dukes might encounter some resistance in seeking to collect on the yet-to-be-paid annual contribution pledges -- the total of which undoubtedly constitutes a substantially greater sum of money than season ticket sales.

I can see no justification for refusing to demand proof of vaccination as a condition of entry to crowded indoor gatherings at Duke. The "easier to police" excuse will not suffice, because reports of experiences from other recent athletic and entertainment events attended by large crowds indicate that the process of verifying proof of vaccination at points of entry can be conducted successfully without undue disruption or delay. The "compliance with government directives" excuse shouldn't work because Duke is a private institution, free to adopt more restrictive requirements for those who seek access to its premises. If there is some other reason, more sensible and sound, to warrant allowing unvaccinated people into games at Cameron, I'm willing to listen; but I don't want to hear that Duke is deferring to the Refuseniks as a courtesy, or out of respect for their "freedom of individual choice," or to avoid potential lawsuits and liability for monetary damages.

In my opinion, there is no longer any valid reason for any person in this country who is eligible to receive the COVID vaccination not to get it, other than those very few whose medical condition makes it contraindicated. That the three vaccines approved for emergency use are safe and effective has now been proven by experience beyond reasonable doubt or dispute. One need only examine the relative percentages of vaccinated and unvaccinated people who have been hospitalized or died during the recent Delta variant resurgence to see the truth about the efficacy of the vaccine. Numbers don't lie. Anyone who still fails to get vaccinated in the face of this vastly overwhelming, if not utterly indisputable, evidence is simply being irrational -- a Refusenik.

Turning back to the possible reasons for allowing unvaccinated people to attend games in Cameron, I believe that Refuseniks deserve no such courtesy or respect, because their choice to expose themselves and others to a potentially deadly or debilitating virus is a deliberate repudiation of any courtesy or respect for the rights of others. The Refusenik who protests that their decision only affects their own personal health and safety not only ignores the fact that they magnify the risk of infection for others, but that the Refusenik who gets COVID is more likely to develop severe illness and require extended hospitalization, which needlessly wastes limited health care resources and, as a more disturbing consequence, leaves others who urgently need medical care to suffer or die due to shortages of facilities, qualified personnel, and supplies.

As for the demand to exercise their "rights" and "freedom of individual choice," they conveniently ignore the fundamental requirement of our social contract: Every right imposes a corresponding, and equally important, responsibility to ensure that the exercise of that right does not cause harm to others. You want to exercise your right to drink? Fine, but you have a responsibility not to drive. You want to exercise your right to smoke? Fine, but you have a responsibility not to light up in places where others are entitled to a healthy, smoke-free environment. You want to exercise your right to own and carry a weapon? Fine, but you have a responsibility to keep it stored securely and not to use it except in self-defense. You want to exercise your right to free speech? Fine, but you have a responsibility to refrain from inciting violence or defaming others.

Essential to the social contract that binds every member of a democracy is a consensus that the one right which must prevail above all is this: The majority rules. In my judgment, the time has come for the sensible, responsible majority to step up, speak out, and put an end to this tyranny of the mad minority that has inexplicably gripped our country. Let the Refuseniks be restricted to grocery shopping between 7 am and 8 am on Wednesday mornings. Let the Refuseniks be limited to take-out or delivery meals from restaurants. Let the Refuseniks be left to live in a bubble, largely confined to their homes with little human interaction. And for purposes of the present discussion, let the Refuseniks be told that they cannot go shopping in stores or attend theaters, or concerts . . . or games in Cameron Indoor Stadium. Maybe experiencing some of the same restrictions that they have been forcing the rest of us to accept might awaken a realization that the rights of the majority deserve to be respected as well; and perhaps some of them may even decide that freedom -- and its protection for present and future generations -- is worth the small sacrifice of getting vaccinated.

Bravo! Must spread around, etc. etc. I've invoked the "social contract" argument with many, but never articulated it as well as you have here.

Can we send this as a letter to the Iron Dukes/athletic department co-signed by the entire DBR community?

[scottdude8]

Duke alums are too well-educated to be anti-science. Surely there must be some other reason Duke Athletics is not yet requiring proof of vaccination to attend football games.

While we all might like to think this is the case, a certain high-profile Duke alum who recently ended his employment in the White House is a pretty strong indication that this isn't universally the case (speaking VERY vaguely on purpose not to derail things, haha).

[camion]

While we all might like to think this is the case, a certain high-profile Duke alum who recently ended his employment in the White House is a pretty strong indication that this isn't universally the case (speaking VERY vaguely on purpose not to derail things, haha).

I somewhat gifted in a vague sense.


I can speak very vaguely without even trying.

[CameronBornAndBred]

You HAVE dealt with security for basektball and football games, right? You're asking them to also decide whether a proof of vaccination is valid? With any reasonable amount of hassle for it? Sorry...I just don't see it. It's easy to say whether someone is wearing a mask.

Remember, I actually work the games, and as the person who would be enforcing the masks in cameron, I STILL think it's more viable than trying to get staff1 to ensure people have a proper proof of vaccination.

Maybe it will happen. It will also be a SS if it does, I think.

As has been pointed out in another thread, the same folks who staff the security at Duke also do the same for Walnut Creek. Getting into the sold out Dead & Company show was a very smooth operation, and folks' records were checked as they waited in line for gate entry. I was dreading the worst, and we got the best.

[freshmanjs]

You HAVE dealt with security for basektball and football games, right? You're asking them to also decide whether a proof of vaccination is valid? With any reasonable amount of hassle for it? Sorry...I just don't see it. It's easy to say whether someone is wearing a mask.

Remember, I actually work the games, and as the person who would be enforcing the masks in cameron, I STILL think it's more viable than trying to get staff1 to ensure people have a proper proof of vaccination.

Maybe it will happen. It will also be a SS if it does, I think.

I’ve been to bunch of concerts and events in nyc area where barely trained, hourly staff have done vaccine card checks with no issues. Maybe the population in nc is way more combative on this topic, but it’s really not a big deal to do the check. Mostly the existence of the check has people who can’t pass just stay away.

[uh_no]

As has been pointed out in another thread, the same folks who staff the security at Duke also do the same for Walnut Creek. Getting into the sold out Dead & Company show was a very smooth operation, and folks' records were checked as they waited in line for gate entry. I was dreading the worst, and we got the best.

you are far more willing to give Duke the benefit of doubt in not screwing this up than I am. Maybe I should give Dr. King some time to be more effective than predecessors, and to be fair, she is off to a good start, but I also wouldn't be surprised if Duke did something like say your vaccine card needed to be notarized and on file before showing up to the game or something like that.