ACC-B1G-PAC Allliance "Expected Soon"

[Dedgummit]

You act like the ACC broke in in the middle of the night and abducted Florida State. The ACC was formed in 1953 when seven schools broke away from the Southern Conference. Did the ACC poach Duke from the Southern Conference? Conference membership has been fluid since the beginning of conferences.

No, I'm not particularly exercised about it; I'm just pointing out that the ACC has done (multiple times) precisely what others here have reproached other conferences for doing. You are right-- it is business as usual-- there is nothing remarkable or even surprising about it. It's just best to acknowledge that the ACC has made a practice of doing it as much as (or more than) any other conference.

[Dedgummit]

Can't agree with that. Not by the numbers, anyway. The Metro was a very solid basketball league, but it took a backseat to at least five other leagues in terms of its achievements on the court. From 1975-1995, which is the span in which the Metro existed, here are the numbers of Final Four appearances and national championships by conference:

ACC: 18 Final Fours, 5 championships
Big 10: 12 Final Fours, 5 championships
SEC: 10 Final Fours, 2 championships
Big East: 8 Final Fours, 2 championships
SW/Big 8: 11 Final Fours, 1 championship
Pac 10: 6 Final Fours, 2 championshiops
Metro: 5 Final Fours, 2 championships. 4 of those FF's and both championships were won by Louisville.

Cincinnati has a great basketball history. But they finished their first year in the Metro rated 12th after losing in the first round of the NCAA's, and never finished another year, while in the Metro, as a ranked team at all.

In its years in the Metro, Florida State finished ranked in the mid-teens twice, and lost in the first round both years.

Memphis had a strong run in the early 80s for sure, but of their 16 years in the Metro, they ended up as a ranked team in only five of those seasons.

Louisville was another story entirely, of course. But the league as a whole didn't measure up to the best in the country.

I was giving Cincinnati credit for its excellent basketball history that pre-dates its involvement in the Metro-- a lot of that was accomplished while a member of the Missouri Valley Conference-- which Cincinnati was in with Louisville and Memphis State, before all three joined the Metro-- which was making me give the Metro credit where the MVC deserved some of it.

While this is interesting data, there are a couple of points that detract from it:
1) Three of the ACC's five championships (1991, 1992, 1993) and 7 Final Four appearances, were attained AFTER FSU had already left the Metro; if the data is viewed at the point in time that FSU was making its decision about the ACC, it was 11 FFs, and 2 titles for the ACC, to the Metro's 5 and 2.
2) I would argue that All of the basketball data is moot, because I don't believe that FSU came to the ACC to improve in basketball-- Jim Sumner made that assertion. I don't think FSU has ever cared that much about basketball-- FSU cares about football, primarily; the fact that FSU does not draw well for basketball, even now that the FSU basketball team has been consistently good tends to support that view.

[budwom]

I guess it's today. Glad to see that there is focus on the fact these leagues include many of the best academic institutions in the country...glad we're not following the SEC's race to the bottom. And for variety's sake, I wouldn't mind seeing some PAC 12 teams on our schedule in future years (that will take awhile).

[luvdahops]

At this point in the game I'm not sure the term means anything. But if you're trying to compare this to the ACC and FSU, I think you're comparing apples and oranges. FSU's athletic ambitions had outgrown the Metro. FSU had become a national power in baseball and they were hoping to duplicate that in basketball. Being a football independent was not as attractive as being in a major conference. FSU was looking to move up and they found a willing dance partner in the ACC, which benefited from FSU's football prograrm and gained access to the lucrative Florida TV-market at the same time. Not sure why you seem to think there was some impropriety there.

IIRC, Florida State's desire to find a conference affiliation for football was pretty much public knowledge by the late 80s/early 90s, and they were clearly disappointed to not get an invite from the SEC when it expanded in 1991.

[uh_no]

I guess it's today. Glad to see that there is focus on the fact these leagues include many of the best academic institutions in the country...glad we're not following the SEC's race to the bottom. And for variety's sake, I wouldn't mind seeing some PAC 12 teams on our schedule in future years (that will take awhile).

UNC...Louisville...

The ACC is not exactly much better here in focusing on academics. Having some good schools does not absolve the fact that there are plenty of schools that would race to the bottom with the SEC if given the chance.

[budwom]

UNC...Louisville...

The ACC is not exactly much better here in focusing on academics. Having some good schools does not absolve the fact that there are plenty of schools that would race to the bottom with the SEC if given the chance.

I can't argue with that, but do point out that the alliance leagues hold a whole lot of presitigious AAU schools, plus other excellent academic institutions. I was never a fan of adding Lewisville to the league...

[Spanarkel]

The SEC has earned its acronym: Surely Everyone Cheats(not original)

Very confident that all SEC members with the exception of Vanderbilt have received significant NCAA penalties, and Vandy had its football gang-rape scandal in ~2013.

[uh_no]

The SEC has earned its acronym: Surely Everyone Cheats(not original)

Very confident that all SEC members with the exception of Vanderbilt have received significant NCAA penalties, and Vandy had its football gang-rape scandal in ~2013.

The B10 seemingly has had its fair share of scandals...

I don't reject the notion that the SEC are kings of the heap, only that the the other leagues particularly care either as some sort of "focus on not cheating"

[PackMan97]

The SEC has earned its acronym: Surely Everyone Cheats(not original)

Very confident that all SEC members with the exception of Vanderbilt have received significant NCAA penalties, and Vandy had its football gang-rape scandal in ~2013.

The ACC has also earned their acronym: Allows Carolina Cheating

[camion]

The ACC has also earned their acronym: Allows Carolina Cheating

Is that the Swofford rule?

[LeadingEdge]

The SEC has earned its acronym: Surely Everyone Cheats(not original)

Very confident that all SEC members with the exception of Vanderbilt have received significant NCAA penalties, and Vandy had its football gang-rape scandal in ~2013.

Keep your eye on U. of Florida. It's an AAU member and is #30 in USNWR. Yes, it's into bigtime SEC football too. If there's an Alliance-SEC divorce, I could see imagine some interest by U. Florida's president and board in moving to the moderate-integrity side of the aisle.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Tuesday's announcement will include mention of a scheduling alliance in football, women's basketball and men's basketball, which will go into effect "as soon as practical" based on existing contracts.

It will be more interesting for me to see the impact on basketball, which has more games, than the one on football.

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-common-values

[hallcity]

They're promising "early and mid-season games as well as annual events" in basketball. How do you do this with a 20 game conference schedule? What kind of annual events are they talking about? Something more than the ACC-B1G Challenge? Adding an ACC-PAC Challenge?

[budwom]

Keep your eye on U. of Florida. It's an AAU member and is #30 in USNWR. Yes, it's into bigtime SEC football too. If there's an Alliance-SEC divorce, I could see imagine some interest by U. Florida's president and board in moving to the moderate-integrity side of the aisle.

I'd be stunned if U FLA (fine school) were to leave the SEC...too much money coming in. It doesn't make them scoundrels to stay, but I'm glad at least three other conference don't feel compelled to emulate the SEC. Despite a few clunkers, those three leagues have a whole lot of distinguished institutions.

[LeadingEdge]

I'd be stunned if U FLA (fine school) were to leave the SEC...too much money coming in. It doesn't make them scoundrels to stay, but I'm glad at least three other conference don't feel compelled to emulate the SEC. Despite a few clunkers, those three leagues have a whole lot of distinguished institutions.

I consider the move unlikely, but just a school to watch. U. Florida is a lot higher ranked and more selective than most non-Floridians realize.

[House P]

They're promising "early and mid-season games as well as annual events" in basketball. How do you do this with a 20 game conference schedule? What kind of annual events are they talking about? Something more than the ACC-B1G Challenge? Adding an ACC-PAC Challenge?

I think an ACC-PAC Challenge makes a lot of sense (as well as a B1G-PAC Challenge). It would be great if this happened in Jan/Feb.

I don't really see this happening, but if there is a true alliance between these conferences, they might be able to work out a financial structure where they could play inter-conference games at the expense of (gasp!) conference games.

Rather than the current 20 game ACC schedule, I would much rather see Duke play an 18 game ACC schedule with 2 mandated (on campus) games vs the B1G/PAC. Heck, I think many folks would rather see a 16 game ACC schedule with 4 mandated games vs the B1G/PAC. Again, I don't necessarily see this happening, but the conferences could probably make it work if they wanted to.

I suspect that TV networks would rather broadcast a Duke game vs a run-of-the-mill PAC team, than Duke vs Wake (which always seems to get relegated to the ACCN).

[budwom]

^ yes, variety is the spice of life..let's have a look at some different teams.

[hallcity]

Whatever else happens, Bill Walton must never broadcast a Duke game. That has to be a bedrock principle.

[sagegrouse]

I'd be stunned if U FLA (fine school) were to leave the SEC...too much money coming in. It doesn't make them scoundrels to stay, but I'm glad at least three other conference don't feel compelled to emulate the SEC. Despite a few clunkers, those three leagues have a whole lot of distinguished institutions.

Then there's the Georgia Tech cautionary tale. Tech great Bill Curry said a couple of years ago that if Georgia Tech had remained in the SEC it would be drawing 80,000 people to every home game as opposed to 45,000. (Yes, I know the stadium only holds 55,000).

then there's the questions: "Why would FSU and Miami vote to admit the Gators to the ACC?"

[Dedgummit]

I'd be stunned if U FLA (fine school) were to leave the SEC...too much money coming in. It doesn't make them scoundrels to stay, but I'm glad at least three other conference don't feel compelled to emulate the SEC. Despite a few clunkers, those three leagues have a whole lot of distinguished institutions.

According to this article (https://www.gainesville.com/news/201...-next-10-years) from the local Gainesville paper, the president of the University of Florida says that UF "operates on a budget of $6 Billion annual budget":

"Lane conceded that $2.25 billion is 'a lot of money,' but noted that UF operates on a budget of $6 billion a year."

That article was from 2019-- I'd bet the budget is actually higher than that now. Meanwhile, the revenues for the UF athletic department in 2019 were $160 Million, according to this article from a local Naples paper:https://www.naplesnews.com/story/spo...19/5447692002/

Therefore, the athletic department revenues were about 2.7% of the total budget for the University of Florida, in 2019-- and, since UF's athletic department costs were ~$142 Million, the "profit" that the UF athletic department made was $17.9 Million-- which works out to about 3/10 of 1%-- or (decimally) 0.3%. Even if one looks at the football program in isolation , the profits there were ~$48 Million-- which is about 8/10 of 1% or (decimally) 0.8%-- in other words, a rounding error on the budget of the University of Florida.

I'm suggesting that the University of Florida could elect to forgo all the money it has coming from football (or athletics entirely), if it decided it wanted to prioritize academics over athletics. Sacrificing 0.3% of the budget should not be an enormous hardship-- and moving from the SEC to some other league hardly necessitates that UF give up all of its (already insignificant) football revenue.