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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    I would say that would be a very bad trade for the Nets, especially with the Sixers trading from a position of weakness. 50/40/90 with low turnovers doesn’t grow on trees, despite people not appreciating Kyrie, and he was excellent on defense last year. If the Nets had been healthy, they likely would be defending champions. I would give it another run.
    I agree 100%. I don't know why folks think this would be equal value. I mean, I know Ben Simmons doesn't Tweet dumb things, but I suspect the NBA generally values Kyrie's play FAR above Simmons'.

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Yeah, there just aren't that many $140million + players out there who can't be on the court at crunch time...a better move might be to work on FT shooting, come back and play hard and well.

  3. #163
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I agree 100%. I don't know why folks think this would be equal value. I mean, I know Ben Simmons doesn't Tweet dumb things, but I suspect the NBA generally values Kyrie's play FAR above Simmons'.
    While true, I think the Kyrie-for-Simmons trade makes a lot of sense on paper (and only referring to their games. Their personalities and extra-curricular activities notwithstanding).

    The Nets have 4 great shooters in Harden, KD, Kyrie, and Mills. They have one really good defender in KD. Simmons can guard all 5 positions (very unique) and would be the best defender from Day 1. He is very good in the paint and very unselfish. I could absolutely see Simmons working very well with KD and Harden.

    Kyrie on the 76ers provides the ying to Embiid's yang. Kyrie would be the second banana and, with shooters all around, the 76ers have a really nice core.

    The issue to this is Simmons is such a liability during crunch time and Kyrie doesn't want to leave (and has "threatened" to retire). Those two aspects alone mean this trade isn't going to happen.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Yeah, there just aren't that many $140million + players out there who can't be on the court at crunch time...a better move might be to work on FT shooting, come back and play hard and well.
    This would all go away if he took an interest in outside shooting. Even 30% on 3-pointers would be acceptable at first. Even if he gets traded he needs to do that. Whatever his resistance is to outside shooting has ballooned into no shooting at all in crunchtime. He is not a superstar if that persists.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleBlue View Post
    This would all go away if he took an interest in outside shooting. Even 30% on 3-pointers would be acceptable at first. Even if he gets traded he needs to do that. Whatever his resistance is to outside shooting has ballooned into no shooting at all in crunchtime. He is not a superstar if that persists.
    When has he EVER been a superstar? He is a seriously flawed player.

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I agree 100%. I don't know why folks think this would be equal value. I mean, I know Ben Simmons doesn't Tweet dumb things, but I suspect the NBA generally values Kyrie's play FAR above Simmons'.
    I totally see where ya'll are coming from on this. In a vacuum, Kyrie for Simmons does not make sense for the Nets, but when you see what the Nets already have on their roster it starts to look a lot better.

    Kyrie is primarily a creator for himself. He is a wizard with the ball in his hands and a great shot creator. He has never been that much of a passer though (never averaged 7 APG in his career) and he is -- at best -- an inconsistent defender. The Nets already have a pair of guys who are great shot creators who also need the ball in their hands in KD and Harden. They are a team that seeks to outscore you, not lock you down on D. I think subtracting another shot creator to add an elite defender is a reasonable thought for the Nets. It is not a matter of whether Kyrie is better than Simmons, it is a matter of which player helps your team more. I think a case can be made that Simmons helps them more than Kyrie does...

    ...provided Harden and KD stay healthy. If either of those guys get hurt then I 100% agree that Kyrie is the more important piece for the Nets. Injuries, as we saw last year, can play havoc with any NBA roster.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    When has he EVER been a superstar? He is a seriously flawed player.
    Well Simmons was the NBA Rookie of the Year in 2018 and was selected as an NBA All-Star in 2019, 2020, and 2021. He was ranked 21st in NBA Players in Sports Illustrated last year and fell to 31st this year after his playoff performance. Maybe Superstars are Top 10? If so, I concede.

  8. #168
    Unless Philly sweetens the deal, I see Irving as a substantially better player than Simmons. Irving is a generational point guard. Simmons plays good defense and has nifty passing.

    I get what folks are suggesting about "team fit," but it doesn't pass the straight face test to me.

    If I have a gold bar, but I need a quarter for a gumball machine, I'm still not trading.

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleBlue View Post
    Well Simmons was the NBA Rookie of the Year in 2018 and was selected as an NBA All-Star in 2019, 2020, and 2021. He was ranked 21st in NBA Players in Sports Illustrated last year and fell to 31st this year after his playoff performance. Maybe Superstars are Top 10? If so, I concede.
    Simmons is an All-Star. Not sure he's a Superstar. I don't know the cut off or the criteria, but Superstar just seems a little farfetched.

    For instance, I consider Klay Thompson, Jaylen Brown, and Julius Randle to be All-Stars. I consider Lebron James, Steph Curry, and KD to be Superstars.

    For folks like Kyrie, Jayson, Simmons, etc... it's much harder. I do not think they are Superstars but they certainly seem more "elevated" than Thompson, Brown, Randle, etc.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  10. #170
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Unless Philly sweetens the deal, I see Irving as a substantially better player than Simmons. Irving is a generational point guard. Simmons plays good defense and has nifty passing.

    I get what folks are suggesting about "team fit," but it doesn't pass the straight face test to me.

    If I have a gold bar, but I need a quarter for a gumball machine, I'm still not trading.
    Yes, if they are similar in age. But they are not. Kyrie is 6 months away from being on the wrong side of 30. Ben Simmons just turned 25.

    Now, the Nets should ask to sweeten the deal because you can hold the 76ers hostage. Brand/Morey really screwed this one up.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  11. #171
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Unless Philly sweetens the deal, I see Irving as a substantially better player than Simmons. Irving is a generational point guard. Simmons plays good defense and has nifty passing.

    I get what folks are suggesting about "team fit," but it doesn't pass the straight face test to me.

    If I have a gold bar, but I need a quarter for a gumball machine, I'm still not trading.
    Simmons is a generational defender, for what it's worth. "Good" understates things by quite a bit.

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by GGLC View Post
    Simmons is a generational defender, for what it's worth. "Good" understates things by quite a bit.
    Yeah. He is phenomenal on D. I truly believe Simmons has been vastly overrated over the last 2-3 months by the media, Twitter, and DBR. He's a really great player.

    The issue is his FT shooting, his "clutchability" (or lack thereof), and his hesitancy to shoot outside of 6 feet. These are really big issues, but if he can improve a little on shooting all around and be mediocre during clutch-time, he's a massive asset to any team.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  13. #173
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Yeah. He is phenomenal on D. I truly believe Simmons has been vastly overrated over the last 2-3 months by the media, Twitter, and DBR. He's a really great player.

    The issue is his FT shooting, his "clutchability" (or lack thereof), and his hesitancy to shoot outside of 6 feet. These are really big issues, but if he can improve a little on shooting all around and be mediocre during clutch-time, he's a massive asset to any team.
    If he was the type of player you want on your team, who you win with, who cares about the team, he'd be in the gym every single day working on that shot instead of shutting down and crying and complaining about how unfair everything is and how he wants to take his ball and go home. He was a rotten apple at LSU for the couple of months he pretended to be a student-athlete and he still is. Nobody other than like a Shaq-type inside force, who can't consistently make a ten foot jumpshot can possibly be true star NBA player. I still say they should tell him to look in the mirror, get in the gym and work on his game, cuz we ain't trading you. You don't want to come to work? Fine. You have a contract that calls for you to be paid many millions of dollars. If you don't show up for work, you forfeit those millions. That's all.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    If he was the type of player you want on your team, who you win with, who cares about the team, he'd be in the gym every single day working on that shot instead of shutting down and crying and complaining about how unfair everything is and how he wants to take his ball and go home. He was a rotten apple at LSU for the couple of months he pretended to be a student-athlete and he still is. Nobody other than like a Shaq-type inside force, who can't consistently make a ten foot jumpshot can possibly be true star NBA player. I still say they should tell him to look in the mirror, get in the gym and work on his game, cuz we ain't trading you. You don't want to come to work? Fine. You have a contract that calls for you to be paid many millions of dollars. If you don't show up for work, you forfeit those millions. That's all.
    Must spread sporks. Totally agree. I also don't think the blowback amongst players will be as negative as some are saying. This isn't a good player on a going nowhere team. The Sixer's have title aspirations. Additionally he is just starting his extension.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    If he was the type of player you want on your team, who you win with, who cares about the team, he'd be in the gym every single day working on that shot instead of shutting down and crying and complaining about how unfair everything is and how he wants to take his ball and go home. He was a rotten apple at LSU for the couple of months he pretended to be a student-athlete and he still is. Nobody other than like a Shaq-type inside force, who can't consistently make a ten foot jumpshot can possibly be true star NBA player. I still say they should tell him to look in the mirror, get in the gym and work on his game, cuz we ain't trading you. You don't want to come to work? Fine. You have a contract that calls for you to be paid many millions of dollars. If you don't show up for work, you forfeit those millions. That's all.
    Yeah. To me, swapping him for Kyrie is a massive mistake. I mean, unless you are the Nets.

    People make all sorts of remarks about Kyrie. But they don't doubt his effort or his game.

    All this over a basketball player who can't shoot. How useful is a hockey player who can't skate?

  16. #176
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Washington, DC
    How useful was Shaq?

  17. If this was two years ago and we hadn't yet seen what a team with KD, Kyrie and Harden could do, then trading Kyrie for Simmons might have been reasonable conjecture. Three ball hoggers and only one ball, they said. A team that will self destruct because of locker issues, the experts proclaimed. Three weird and cry baby personalities that will never mesh on or off the court, basketball analysts posited.

    But we saw what a team of just KD and Kyrie could do. They dominated the NBA champions for two games and should have won the series, if not for injuries. We saw Harden be an effective ball distributor - how good would this team be if all three were healthy? They were already among the best with just two.

    Why would you risk the Net's season long best player for a guy who won't shoot and is a liability in the post season? Who can't even be played down the stretch no matter how good of a defender?

  18. #178
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California

    Quinn Cook talk

    Not sure if this is the best thread for Quinn Cook's situation. Still...and it might be old news...

    The Golden State Warriors were slated to work out Quinn until...he signed a non-guaranteed contact with the Portland Trailblazers. This report from WarriorsWire dated September 21 is the first I'd heard of it.

    https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/20...trail-blazers/

  19. #179
    Javin signed a non guaranteed deal with the Milwaukee Bucks for training camp.

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