2021 NBA Free Agency Musical Chairs

[Kedsy]

The long term outcome would be a team with a toxic culture, and no good free agent would want to join up.

-jk

Depends on what you mean by a "good" free agent. Top tier guys like LeBron, Durant, Kawhi, Butler etc., in general only sign with LA, Miami, occasionally the New York area, plus maybe Boston, due to their storied history (Durant signing with Golden State was an aberration, because they were so good already and he was chasing a championship; LeBron signing with Cleveland was because it was his hometown team), so a team like Philadelphia or Minnesota or Toronto or Oklahoma City wouldn't be in the running for one of those. Guys like Seth Curry and Danny Green and Andre Drummond are going to go where the money is, whether or not the team made an example out of some other player.

I think Tommy's probably right about the PR war. A world where a player essentially becomes a free agent (who can more or less choose his destination) with three years left on his contract is not good for anybody except the superstars.

[jimsumner]

OK, I just read that the above is wrong and the Kings are definitely in play for Simmons. The report also said that because Tyrese Maxey has the same agent as Simmons, due to pressure by the agent Maxey will likely be included in any Simmons trade. Which seems absolutely bonkers to me (when did agents get the power to overrule GMs?), but that's the report.

The Sixers had been holding out for De'Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton to be included in the deal, but supposedly due to their new lack of leverage (due to Simmons's trade request), the Kings are unlikely to give either of them up. Their current offer is probably Hield and Bagley (two players the Kings have been trying to unload all offseason) plus picks, which if Maxey is included might be worse than letting Simmons sit out all season.

Bagley should certainly benefit from a fresh start and a clean slate.

Hield would overlap with Curry at shooting guard, however. I wouldn't like that. Wouldn't the Sixers need something more in the nature of a point guard?

[Kedsy]

Bagley should certainly benefit from a fresh start and a clean slate.

Yeah, but Philadelphia would not be a good spot for him. He'd never start ahead of Tobias Harris, so basically he'd just be a backup power forward who'd have trouble finding space inside because he'd be playing next to Andre Drummond.

[lotusland]

Just once I would love to see a team actually do what you’re suggesting. Some prima donna player says he refuses to play anymore and demands a trade? Call his bluff. Don’t trade him. Let him sit out and not get paid. See how long he lasts. If he comes back and barely tries or otherwise causes trouble, either sit his butt on the bench every night or demote him to the G league or suspend him if there are plausible grounds. Contracts run both ways. You sign it - you live with its terms. The team would win the PR war on this even if the team’s record suffered. Stand up and make a point.

Different sport obviously but Leveon Bell says “hi”.
Bell sat out without pay then signed a slightly better deal but was cut after 2 years. On the other hand disgruntled wide receiver Antonio Brown was traded for a 5th and 3rd round pick to the Raiders where he was resigned then cut. I guess the Steelers were better off getting a couple of picks than nothing. The players lost in both cases. The guaranteed money and cap hits are way different in the NFL but in either case the team doesn’t have great choices when a player sits out.

[sagegrouse]

Different sport obviously but Leveon Bell says “hi”.
Bell sat out without pay then signed a slightly better deal but was cut after 2 years. On the other hand disgruntled wide receiver Antonio Brown was traded for a 5th and 3rd round pick to the Raiders where he was resigned then cut. I guess the Steelers were better off getting a couple of picks than nothing. The players lost in both cases. The guaranteed money and cap hits are way different in the NFL but in either case the team doesn’t have great choices when a player sits out.

John Riggins sat out the 1980 season with the Redskins, who had refused to renegotiate his contract. He was 31 at the time. He rejoined the team the following season and led them to two Super Bowls.

[Kedsy]

I guess the Steelers were better off getting a couple of picks than nothing.

Not necessarily. What if the Steelers and Raiders had ended up fighting for the last playoff spot. Having handed the Raiders a top-tier wide receiver would have hurt Pittsburgh's playoff chances.

The Sixers are in a similar bind, if they believe they are contending for a championship. If they trade Simmons to Golden State, for example, and then have to face the Warriors in the NBA finals, would getting a couple draft picks and a second-unit player be worth making Golden State that much stronger?

John Riggins sat out the 1980 season with the Redskins, who had refused to renegotiate his contract. He was 31 at the time. He rejoined the team the following season and led them to two Super Bowls.

So the Redskins were clearly better off letting him sit than shipping him out for a couple draft picks.

[robed deity]

Not necessarily. What if the Steelers and Raiders had ended up fighting for the last playoff spot. Having handed the Raiders a top-tier wide receiver would have hurt Pittsburgh's playoff chances.

The Sixers are in a similar bind, if they believe they are contending for a championship. If they trade Simmons to Golden State, for example, and then have to face the Warriors in the NBA finals, would getting a couple draft picks and a second-unit player be worth making Golden State that much stronger?



So the Redskins were clearly better off letting him sit than shipping him out for a couple draft picks.

That seems extreme for the Sixers. I could see being worried about that inside a division (or even conference/league) in football or baseball, but between the East and West in basketball? I'd think Philly would be happy just to be there, and how likely is it that the Warriors get there? A lot of things would have to happen.

[Kedsy]

Hield would overlap with Curry at shooting guard, however. I wouldn't like that. Wouldn't the Sixers need something more in the nature of a point guard?

Yes, you’d think so, especially if they’re forced to trade Maxey along with Simmons. But Sacramento doesn’t want to trade Fox or Halliburton and don’t think they need to now that Simmons has forced the Sixers’ hands.

Hield’s redundancy with Curry, along with his incredibly high salary for a shooting specialist, makes this potential deal just terrible for Philadelphia.

[Kedsy]

That seems extreme for the Sixers. I could see being worried about that inside a division (or even conference/league) in football or baseball, but between the East and West in basketball? I'd think Philly would be happy just to be there, and how likely is it that the Warriors get there? A lot of things would have to happen.

If the Warriors are healthy, with Curry, Thompson, Draymond, and Simmons, they’d be by far the best defensive team in the league with a fair amount of offensive firepower. Seeing them in the finals would not be much of a stretch.

And the Sixers entire “process” was based on winning a championship and they believe Embiid is good enough to build a championship team around but that the window won’t be open for long. They won’t be “happy just to be there,” especially in a case in which a Simmons trade does not bring them closer to their championship aspirations.

[budwom]

Maybe the Sixers are ready to begin The Process anew?

[cato]

Maybe the Sixers are ready to begin The Process anew?

Not until they ride Embiid’s time in Philly making the playoffs every year, but never getting out of the Eastern Conference Finals, thereby missing out on both nice draft picks and a shot at the Championship.

After that, THEN they will be ready to begin The Process again.

[jimsumner]

FWIW, The Athletic is reporting that the T-Wolves could be a factor if they are willing to part with D'Angelo Russell. They aren't moving Towns or Edwards and it's not clear if they have the assets to get it done without Russell. And yes, the Twin Cities aren't exactly sunny California. Seems like a long shot but it's out there. It's behind a paywall, so no link.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

FWIW, The Athletic is reporting that the T-Wolves could be a factor if they are willing to part with D'Angelo Russell. They aren't moving Towns or Edwards and it's not clear if they have the assets to get it done without Russell. And yes, the Twin Cities aren't exactly sunny California. Seems like a long shot but it's out there. It's behind a paywall, so no link.

Wow. Simmons wants a trade and ends up in Minnesota? That would be a cautionary tale.

[budwom]

Not until they ride Embiid’s time in Philly making the playoffs every year, but never getting out of the Eastern Conference Finals, thereby missing out on both nice draft picks and a shot at the Championship.

After that, THEN they will be ready to begin The Process again.

you're probably right, but they could also trade Embiid for a bunch of first round draft picks and start over...they're definitely in a weird place now.

[-jk]

Help me out here. How would holding someone accountable create a toxic culture?

You’d have bad team chemistry, a very unhappy locker room, and players getting out as soon as their contract let them or holding their noses and staying. Other players would think twice before signing up for that. Franchises that don’t keep players happy are rarely successful.

-jk

[tommy]

you're probably right, but they could also trade Embiid for a bunch of first round draft picks and start over...they're definitely in a weird place now.

The Sixers stockpiled all those draft picks -- high lottery picks -- and then largely botched them. It's going to be hard to acquire those kinds of assets again. If they were to trade Embiid, which I don't think they would, they'd really be back at square one. How much tolerance for that would Sixers fans have? But Simmons has really screwed them -- and maybe screwed himself -- but decreasing his own trade value. They may be stuck with each other now. Unfair to the team and its fans, but serves him right anyway.

[azzefkram]

You’d have bad team chemistry, a very unhappy locker room, and players getting out as soon as their contract let them or holding their noses and staying. Other players would think twice before signing up for that. Franchises that don’t keep players happy are rarely successful.

-jk

Franchises that let non-superstar players dictate what they do are also rarely successful. The team is not creating a toxic situation, Ben is. If I was running the Sixers, I would do as tommy suggested and call Ben's bluff.

[lotusland]

Franchises that let non-superstar players dictate what they do are also rarely successful. The team is not creating a toxic situation, Ben is. If I was running the Sixers, I would do as tommy suggested and call Ben's bluff.

I’m with you. If Ben told the Sixers he wasn’t going to re-sign so let’s try to work out a mutually agreeable trade that would be one thing but quitting and demanding a trade to one of 3 teams is another. Teams have a responsibility to their fans to win. I’d rather have unhappy former players than unhappy fans.

[Kedsy]

I’m with you. If Ben told the Sixers he wasn’t going to re-sign so let’s try to work out a mutually agreeable trade that would be one thing but quitting and demanding a trade to one of 3 teams is another. Teams have a responsibility to their fans to win. I’d rather have unhappy former players than unhappy fans.

What makes this situation so crazy is Simmons has four years left on his contract (I was mistaken before when I said it was only three). That's a really long hold out/threat not to re-sign. And then his agent demanded the Sixers trade Maxey as well, because he shares an agent with Ben. I'm just not sure how much leverage Ben and the agent truly have. Are they really threatening to sit out for four years? Are the Sixers actually willing to trade Simmons and Maxey for Hield and Bagley or Wiggins and picks or D'Angelo Russell? Has anybody successfully demanded a trade with so many years left on his contract?

Joel Embiid tweeted an olive branch today, saying he loves playing with Ben and hopes he stays in Philly. So what happens if the Sixers decide to just not trade him?

[tommy]

Simmons is a guy who has some obvious strengths on the floor, primarily his passing and his defense, but obvious shortcomings in key areas as well. As in, he can't shoot the ball at all, in an era in which nothing is more important in a player than his ability to shoot. His team's loss in the playoffs to what many thought was an inferior team was largely attributed to his shortcomings as a shooter and scorer.

So this guy now is compounding his there-for-all-to-see weaknesses on the floor with an entitled attitude like he's a LeBron or Kawhi or AD-level player? So now you have on court shortcomings combined with being an ego-driven head case who thinks he's waaaaay better than he is? This guy is really hurting his own brand with this, and diminishing the range of teams who would even want to take him on.

And if he ends up eating it and staying with the Sixers, I think the other players are going to be thinking, and hopefully saying things like "instead of trying to abandon this solid team that supported you all these years, why didn't you get in the gym and put the work in to actually improve your game? As in, rework your shot. Get 500 shots a day up. Seek some coaching. And get to work." And the fans will be thinking the same thing for sure.

He won't be a leader on the team anymore, if he ever was. I can see the other guys icing him out and looking to others as leaders. As they should. And the team will probably be better off for it.
If it is, that will diminish Simmons even more.