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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    -Jason "I'd be interested in hearing from other Hawks fans here to see if they feel differently" Evans
    I'm not a Hawks fan, but I agree with your take. They have an excellent young core and it will be fun to see which of these guys, aside from Trae, can glow-up to All Star level performers. While the Knicks are a level below the Hawks, they are essentially doing the same thing...investing in the team that performed so unexpectedly well last year. The Knicks had less talent and needed to make more moves, thus the Walker and Fornier signings, but they brought back most of the other important pieces and just inked Randle to a cap friendly extension. It's a bet to see which of the young talents (RJ, Quickly, Mitch Rob, Obi) will be worth paying in the coming years while the team develops and they wait for the current crop of Eastern Conference leaders - Bucks, 76ers, Nets - to age out of their title windows and retool. Again, having made the Eastern Conference Finals, I think the Hawks are a step or two above the Knicks, but it's a similar approach of keeping a group together that has shown promise rather than going all-in before it makes sense to go all-in.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    -Jason "I'd be interested in hearing from other Hawks fans here to see if they feel differently" Evans
    I don't like Trae Young, but he is, without question, a bonafide star and lead player who can guide a team to a Finals.

    The problem is, you can't really do that anymore with one lead player. You need an alpha (which I believe Trae is) and a really good-to-great "second banana".

    Recent second bananas that have won include Khris Middleton, Kevin Durant (or Curry), Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Dwyane Wade, etc. The Suns had Booker as a second banana. The Hawks having nothing close to any of those players. Those players are considered amazing players on bad-to-mediocre teams. Do you think, for a second, that anyone on the Hawks can be that guy?

    The Hawks have Trae Young + 2-5 really good support players. There isn't anyone who can take over a game if Trae isn't playing well or when Trae sits. And in today's NBA, that's a massive problem.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  3. #43
    So it looks like the final pieces of the five team Russell Westbrook trade are in place:

    To WASH
    Kuzma
    KCP
    Harrell
    Dinwiddie
    A. Holiday
    Rights to I. Todd (#31)

    To LAL
    Westbook

    To BKN
    2024 2nd
    2025 2nd (right to swap with GSW or WAS)
    $11.5M Trade Exception

    To IND
    Rights to I. Jackson (#22)

    To SAS
    C. Hutchison
    2022 2nd (WAS)

    [Source]

    As a Wizards fan, I was initially very ambivalent about the trade, seeing how well Westbrook played in the second half of the season and how none of the returning assets seemed like long-term pieces. In short, it seemed to weaken the team in the short-term without any clear long-term payoff.

    But now that Dinwiddie is part of the deal without Washington having to give up much more (just Chandler Hutchison and a second rounder), I'm much more bullish on this. None of these players are Westbrook, but this is the most quality depth Washington has had in a loooooong time:

    PG: Dinwiddie/A. Holiday/Neto
    SG: Beal / Deni Avdija / Corey Kispert
    SF: KCP / Kuzma
    PF: Rui Hachimura / Montrezl Harrel / Davis Bertans
    C: Thomas Bryant / Daniel Gafford / Isaiah Todd

    Seriously, just last year we were playing Garrison Matthew, Anthony Gil, and Raul Neto major minutes while competing for the playoffs. This is a marked improvement. This team is poised to compete for the 5-8 seed in the East. And if things don't work out, there are lots of rotation-level players on manageable contracts that can be moved. It would probably behoove Washington to trade on of its many forwards for another guard, but for now I'm happy with this team. To think we were able to turn John Wall's "untradeable" contract into all this is mighty impressive.

    EDIT: Also a new coach. That's going to be huge.

  4. #44
    Dennis Schroder turned down a 4 year, $84 million extension. This may make folks forget the Nerlens Noel contract rejection. Not sure who is still in the market, although part of me worries David Griffin may offer him a big contract to come to New Orleans.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Dancing Danny Green, now 34 years old, has managed to get a 2 year/$20 Million deal from the Sixers.

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...eal-agent-says
    As much as I don't want to cheer for a Tar Heel, Green averaged 9.5 ppg and shot 40.5% on 3's in 69 of 72 regular season games. His season ended early in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference semi-finals with the Hawks due to a calf injury, and he was missed. Green provides a steady veteran influence and he adds a solid defensive presence. He and Seth Curry are the Sixers' primary 3-point shooters.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I don't like Trae Young, but he is, without question, a bonafide star and lead player who can guide a team to a Finals.

    The problem is, you can't really do that anymore with one lead player. You need an alpha (which I believe Trae is) and a really good-to-great "second banana".

    Recent second bananas that have won include Khris Middleton, Kevin Durant (or Curry), Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Dwyane Wade, etc. The Suns had Booker as a second banana. The Hawks having nothing close to any of those players. Those players are considered amazing players on bad-to-mediocre teams. Do you think, for a second, that anyone on the Hawks can be that guy?

    The Hawks have Trae Young + 2-5 really good support players. There isn't anyone who can take over a game if Trae isn't playing well or when Trae sits. And in today's NBA, that's a massive problem.
    Yeah, I do not disagree with you about any of this and one of my hesitations with Collins was that he did not step up when Trae got hurt and the team needed a new "alpha." At various times in the playoffs, Huerter, Gallo, and Bogdan each really played great to lift the team when Trae was injured or having a bad game. But I don't ever recall Collins being the best guy on the floor. But, we are giving him $25 mil a year... it does worry me a bit.

    That said, I still hope that deAndre Hunter might become the 1A to Trae's #1. In the month of January, before he got hurt and missed the back half of the season, Hunter averaged 18.7ppg in 14 games. That's a pretty big scoring number for a 2nd year player who is not the focus of the offense. If he can duplicate that kind of output next season, he's the "second banana" Atlanta needs.

    -Jason "and there may be a world where Reddish develops into a supporting star too... the Hawks might be one of those rare cases where there is so much depth that they don't need the secondary star... maybe" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Yeah, I do not disagree with you about any of this and one of my hesitations with Collins was that he did not step up when Trae got hurt and the team needed a new "alpha." At various times in the playoffs, Huerter, Gallo, and Bogdan each really played great to lift the team when Trae was injured or having a bad game. But I don't ever recall Collins being the best guy on the floor. But, we are giving him $25 mil a year... it does worry me a bit.

    That said, I still hope that deAndre Hunter might become the 1A to Trae's #1. In the month of January, before he got hurt and missed the back half of the season, Hunter averaged 18.7ppg in 14 games. That's a pretty big scoring number for a 2nd year player who is not the focus of the offense. If he can duplicate that kind of output next season, he's the "second banana" Atlanta needs.

    -Jason "and there may be a world where Reddish develops into a supporting star too... the Hawks might be one of those rare cases where there is so much depth that they don't need the secondary star... maybe" Evans
    Yea I’m not sure Collins has the ability to step up and be the guy. Although I feel he does a heck of a job playing the role he plays.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Yeah, I do not disagree with you about any of this and one of my hesitations with Collins was that he did not step up when Trae got hurt and the team needed a new "alpha." At various times in the playoffs, Huerter, Gallo, and Bogdan each really played great to lift the team when Trae was injured or having a bad game. But I don't ever recall Collins being the best guy on the floor. But, we are giving him $25 mil a year... it does worry me a bit.

    That said, I still hope that deAndre Hunter might become the 1A to Trae's #1. In the month of January, before he got hurt and missed the back half of the season, Hunter averaged 18.7ppg in 14 games. That's a pretty big scoring number for a 2nd year player who is not the focus of the offense. If he can duplicate that kind of output next season, he's the "second banana" Atlanta needs.

    -Jason "and there may be a world where Reddish develops into a supporting star too... the Hawks might be one of those rare cases where there is so much depth that they don't need the secondary star... maybe" Evans
    Honestly, I don't quite understand why Atlanta shouldn't become a very appealing destination for free agents. The town has become a top flight city with great culture. It doesn't have the weather issues of a Chicago or NYC in the winter. It's not at the beach, but is certainly close to good beaches. It doesn't have some of the tax advantages of other cities, but has a great food scene. The entertainment scene isn't LA, but the music is huge and movies are growing.

    The fact that I know very little about the ownership of the team is only a positive - in my experience, the names of owners you know are usually for negative reasons.

    If they can put together a winning culture there, I'd not be surprised to see that franchise become a top level place for sought after free agents.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Dancing Danny Green, now 34 years old, has managed to get a 2 year/$20 Million deal from the Sixers.

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...eal-agent-says
    Green just hangs around. He has a ton of playoff experience and I expect he is a good locker room guy. With this contract - he will be over 100M in career earnings. Not bad for a second round player.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    The fact that I know very little about the ownership of the team is only a positive - in my experience, the names of owners you know are usually for negative reasons.
    You know one of the owners, the Vice Chairman, quite well...he threw the most famous pass in NCAA tournament history after his coach asked him if he could successfully throw it.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Honestly, I don't quite understand why Atlanta shouldn't become a very appealing destination for free agents. The town has become a top flight city with great culture. It doesn't have the weather issues of a Chicago or NYC in the winter. It's not at the beach, but is certainly close to good beaches. It doesn't have some of the tax advantages of other cities, but has a great food scene. The entertainment scene isn't LA, but the music is huge and movies are growing.

    The fact that I know very little about the ownership of the team is only a positive - in my experience, the names of owners you know are usually for negative reasons.

    If they can put together a winning culture there, I'd not be surprised to see that franchise become a top level place for sought after free agents.
    Agree with you, but the Hawks do not have a great modern NBA history.

    To me, Hunter, Reddish, and Collins are role players (very good role players). I'd love to see a Bradley Beal-esque player sign with the Hawks. I think it can happen, if the Hawks are able to repeat some of the magic from this year's playoffs. And that's the key question. With the Bucks bringing it back, a healthy Nets team, and revamped Knicks, a Simmons-less 76ers, and possibly - but unlikely - a disciplined Celtics team, the Hawks are facing a lot of competition and they will not surprise anyone anymore.

    Man, the NBA is soooooooo much fun.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    You know one of the owners, the Vice Chairman, quite well...he threw the most famous pass in NCAA tournament history after his coach asked him if he could successfully throw it.
    Grant Hill?

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Grant Hill?
    The one and only
    https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/...ew-owners.html

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    Hawks Chairman Tony Ressler said he and Vice Chairman Grant Hill and the other owners are there to support and assist Coach Mike Budenholzer and Hawks CEO Steve Koonin and to provide resources and stability to help ensure the Hawks’ success for many years.
    This is good news for the Hawks, as Budenholzer showed recently that he's a championship-caliber coach who knows how to win.


  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    I had absolutely no idea. Interesting.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    This is good news for the Hawks, as Budenholzer showed recently that he's a championship-caliber coach who knows how to win.

    Ha ha...great call as the team is already 2 coaches past Bud.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Honolulu

    Not exactly free agency, but ...

    Per Adrian Wojnarowski, Memphis is trading Grayson to the Bucks for Sam Merrill and two future second-round picks.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by JetpackJesus View Post
    Per Adrian Wojnarowski, Memphis is trading Grayson to the Bucks for Sam Merrill and two future second-round picks.
    Joining Rodney and Semi, Duke North!

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    MKE
    Quote Originally Posted by JetpackJesus View Post
    Per Adrian Wojnarowski, Memphis is trading Grayson to the Bucks for Sam Merrill and two future second-round picks.
    The Bucks just picked up three Duke players in a week. Is this unprecedented?

    Bucks Twitter is quite happy with this move (as am I) after being lukewarm about the Rodney and Semi pick-ups. Bucks/Badgers fans are understandably less thrilled.
    Last edited by phaedrus; 08-06-2021 at 03:35 PM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by phaedrus View Post
    The Bucks just picked up three Duke players in a week. Is this unprecedented?

    Bucks Twitter is quite happy with this move (as am I) after being lukewarm about the Rodney and Semi pick-ups. Bucks/Badgers fans are understandably less thrilled.
    Great opportunity for Grayson. They need a bit more punch from the bench. I rooted for them as I liked the old Bucks teams from the 80’s, but now they have my attention.

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