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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Just off the top of my head, I would expect Duke, Wake, and Vandy to be left out in the cold before Kansas. Probably schools like Rutgers, WVU, maybe even UVA (depends on to what extent a conference believes that UVA will deliver the DC market I would think). If I spent time thinking about it I could probably come up with a longer list. Kansas is not at the bottom of the list, and I don't think they're all that close.
    Hello, to Iowa State and Washington State!


    I do think we need to treat football separately from everything else. In other words, let's not let the major money league dictate terms for non-revenue sports. I just wish football would cut out the NCAA altogether and hire their own commissioner so everything else remains relatively normal.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Should Texas and OK bolt from the B12, which many are saying is inevitable at this point, then the B12 is gonna be on life support and would be in prime position to get raided. I am sure it would try to recover by grabbing schools like Houston, Cincinnati, or Central Florida, it sure feels like the more likely outcome would be other B12 schools going to other conferences. This will set off another round of conference movement.

    So, what does it do to the ACC? I'm sure Jim Phillips is working the phones trying to figure out how to make this help our league. I suspect that once the SEC goes to 16, other conferences will try to do the same. Phillips has already talked about wanting Notre Dame to join the conference. I think last season's football experiment with the Irish probably made that a bit more of a possibility. In addition to Notre Dame, I think Cincy would be a great addition -- strong in both football and hoops and a new, robust TV market. West Virginia, from the flailing B12, could be another good possibility, though they don't do much for our football footprint. I suppose I could see us looking into Houston, but they would be a pretty big leap outside of our regular conference footprint so I think that would be really unlikely. Tulane would seem like a good fit from a geographic and academic standpoint, but they would really need to upgrade their programs. I think Memphis could be an intriguing addition too.

    So, -- with TV dollars being my primary driving factor -- my wish list would be (in order):
    Notre Dame
    Cincy
    West Virginia
    Memphis
    Tulane
    Central Florida

    -Jason "if we don't care about the whole geographic thing, then Houston really jumps up that list... but I don't see the ACC reaching all the way into Texas" Evans
    I sure hope the ACC goes to 16 teams. Then we can divide the conference into two divisions, each of which play home and always with each other in basketball and football (the later being over two years, of course). While doing that, we should reorganize the divisions so that the Coastal division includes Duke, UNC, State, Wake, Clemson, UVA, GT and, I guess, FSU.

    I know this has been floated here before, but it is still a great idea.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    If all this goes through, and the Big 12 in fact implodes, then we will not have the Power 5 conferences anymore. We will have a Power 4. What impact will that have on the plans for the expansion to a 12 team football playoff? The neatest would be to keep it at 4 teams, with the winner of each conference getting a bid. Huge boon to the Pac-12. This won't happen, of course, because of money and the desire to include teams from other conferences, and because the SEC definitely is going to need to have at least two teams in any enlarged playoff system. In fact, with a lineup that includes Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, Auburn, Florida, and Texas A&M, four of whom are regular participants in the playoff when it's only a 4-teamer, they're going to want a system that makes it reasonably possible to get three teams in. Oy.

  4. #44

    Mission, Academics & Endowments

    When is Duke going to finally play the Mission, Academic and Endowment Card?

    It is patently absurd that Duke University and those (few) similarly situated enter
    into a confederation, alliance or partnership with, for example, University of Memphis.

    I understand that geographic footprint is a consideration for managing travel expenses for non revenue sports.

    In the not too distant future, some college revenue will be e sports played virtually. The consumers are constantly moving and their screens are in their pocket. The World is Flat. Connect those institutions with similar values! Duke University has the responsibility to set the standard.

    Stop focusing on the map and the size of the local TV market and short term revenues. How did those ideas work out when the ACC added Louisville?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    I'd rather ear a mud sandwich than re-admit South Carolina to the ACC, though I see no reason why they'd want to re-join anyway unless it's to win more games. Paul Dietzel wanted them to dominate the world in football, and at 2-8 last year the plan seems to be still progressing.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    nobody is leaving the SEC for the ACC when the SEC pays out nearly 50% more per school. (32 vs 45 million/school/year)

    And you seem to be confused in thinking it's the ACC that is standing in the way of ND from becoming a full member.
    yep, ND likes having their own bucket of football TV money, there's not much the ACC can do about that.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by SamHouston View Post

    Stop focusing on the map and the size of the local TV market and short term revenues. How did those ideas work out when the ACC added Louisville?
    quite well, actually. the ACCN, driven by the fact the conference expanded, has made the ACC schools buckets of cash. Not as much as the SEC, but far more than they would have been able to command otherwise.

    In any case, e-sports is not going to be following the same paradigm as physical sports...and I highly doubt such competitors are going to be going to school to play esports.
    basketball is back, baby!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    The SEC makes no sense for Texas and Oklahoma as neither would be perennial top 3 teams in the SEC. The path is more clear in the ACC and Pac10!
    Disagree with this. If Texas were in the SEC they would probably have a top 3-ish recruiting class nearly every single year. The main thing holding them back recruiting-wise since Mack Brown resigned (before being fired) was the fact that they are not in the SEC. A huge percentage of the best high school recruits want to play in the SEC; schools in that conference get an enormous boost just by that fact.

    Heck,Texas had a top-three class a couple of years ago while being in the much less desirable Big 12. If they were in the SEC that would be the norm. They would compete toe-to-toe with Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida and anybody else. And Oklahoma wouldn’t be far behind.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by SamHouston View Post
    When is Duke going to finally play the Mission, Academic and Endowment Card?
    My son goes to Case Western Reserve University. They're in the University Athletic Association, which includes Brandeis, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, Emory, NYU, Chicago, Rochester, and Wash U (St Louis). That's teams in MA, PA, OH, GA, NYC, upstate NY, IL, and MO. I have no idea how they pay for road games.

    Maybe the UAA would like another member? All private schools with great academics, plus Chicago, Wash U and Emory have endowments similar to Duke's. Though they are Division III. Maybe Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Rice, and Stanford should form their own five-team league? Johns Hopkins could join for lacrosse. I doubt Notre Dame or any of the Ivy schools would be interested.

    In other words, as long as Duke wants to make waves in the athletic world, I'm not sure your idea is practical.
    Last edited by Kedsy; 07-22-2021 at 02:54 PM.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    ^ yeah, the Duke, Vandy, NW et al conference would command wee amounts of TV revenue. Maybe we could stream the games. The only sense it would make would be in a non-scholarship mode.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    ^ yeah, the Duke, Vandy, NW et al conference would command wee amounts of TV revenue. Maybe we could stream the games. The only sense it would make would be in a non-scholarship mode.
    That was kind of my point. Duke either has to go all in with the big state schools or fade away toward Division III (or at best, Division I-A) status.

    Though as NIL takes hold and the football schools start going their own way, the decision may not be Duke's to make.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    That was kind of my point. Duke either has to go all in with the big state schools or fade away toward Division III (or at best, Division I-A) status.

    Though as NIL takes hold and the football schools start going their own way, the decision may not be Duke's to make.
    I get what you're saying, but, no they don't. Ask any number of private Div 1 schools that are doing just fine without being in a major conference. Rice, Butler, Liberty, recently Elon, many others...they all have sports programs, and some have had major successes.

    Doesn't really matter anyway since the debate is moot. Duke isn't leaving the ACC, and the ACC isn't going into obscurity. Not within our lifetimes.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    ^ yeah, the Duke, Vandy, NW et al conference would command wee amounts of TV revenue. Maybe we could stream the games. The only sense it would make would be in a non-scholarship mode.
    at least the server cost wouldn't be much given they'd only need to stream to maybe a few hundred people
    basketball is back, baby!

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I get what you're saying, but, no they don't. Ask any number of private Div 1 schools that are doing just fine without being in a major conference. Rice, Butler, Liberty, recently Elon, many others...they all have sports programs, and some have had major successes.

    Doesn't really matter anyway since the debate is moot. Duke isn't leaving the ACC, and the ACC isn't going into obscurity. Not within our lifetimes.
    I wouldn't speak in such certainties. The top football programs in the country could certainly form their own super-league...and in the most hypocritical way, I am certain that Duke would not be invited to that table.
    basketball is back, baby!

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I wouldn't speak in such certainties. The top football programs in the country could certainly form their own super-league...and in the most hypocritical way, I am certain that Duke would not be invited to that table.
    So? If and when they do, that doesn't mean that every other college's football program comes to a screeching halt. Life goes on, so does football.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    So? If and when they do, that doesn't mean that every other college's football program comes to a screeching halt. Life goes on, so does football.
    it means every other football conference becomes obscure for the same reason that non P5 conferences don't mean much today.
    basketball is back, baby!

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    So? If and when they do, that doesn't mean that every other college's football program comes to a screeching halt. Life goes on, so does football.
    I don't understand your point. If the big-time football programs split off, then what's left will basically be the football equivalent of FCS (aka I-A). If the football schools take the rest of their athletic programs with them, then what would be left in, e.g., basketball would be the equivalent of low-major for left-out schools that continue with scholarships or DIII for those that don't. Perhaps not immediately, but it wouldn't take long without the football and NCAAT revenues pouring in.

    Nobody said football (or any other sport) would be discontinued. It just won't be high-level or a profit center for the non-super-association universities.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    at least the server cost wouldn't be much given they'd only need to stream to maybe a few hundred people
    two teenagers with a lap top and you're set to go!

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    it means every other football conference becomes obscure for the same reason that non P5 conferences don't mean much today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I don't understand your point. If the big-time football programs split off, then what's left will basically be the football equivalent of FCS (aka I-A). If the football schools take the rest of their athletic programs with them, then what would be left in, e.g., basketball would be the equivalent of low-major for left-out schools that continue with scholarships or DIII for those that don't. Perhaps not immediately, but it wouldn't take long without the football and NCAAT revenues pouring in.

    Nobody said football (or any other sport) would be discontinued. It just won't be high-level or a profit center for the non-super-association universities.
    There is only so much room in any conference for "top-flight elite athletes". So if one super conference sucks them all up, I don't care. I've watched many games that didn't feature those. I've watched many games that Duke played that didn't feature those. I had lots of fun watching.
    So again, I say "so what?" I'm a spectator, I'm a fan. If my team isn't playing (and losing to) Alabama, Clemson, Florida, and Nebraska every Saturday, I do not care.
    I'm still showing up. And plenty of other Duke fans will show up. I'd think as fans of football, ones that are used to what happens in Wallace Wade would be most understanding of this.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  20. #60
    Add Army, Navy, ND & Wildcard for 16 team conference. Though I wish Duke acted as a visionary leader and designed a sustainable future model.

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