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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Texas has not been in the SEC before; they’ve never had that type of recruiting advantage. A&M has been enjoying said advantage for the past nine seasons (since they left the Big 12) by siphoning off recruits that previously would have gone to Texas. The SEC just has such a strong allure for high school football players.

    There is a clear connection between A&M leaving the Big 12 and the relative decline of Longhorns football. Let’s give it a few years and see the way Texas is trending now that they’ll be in the SEC. The sun is shining and the future is bright in Austin, TX. 😎
    Texas A&M also experienced a huge upgrade to their facilities around the same time which could account for the improved recruiting as well.

    They raised a ton of money for the football program, that could be tied to the move to the SEC but I think there were other factors at play, like the money made in the oil and energy markets at the same time.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/new-...-photos-2014-8

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDevil View Post
    Texas A&M also experienced a huge upgrade to their facilities around the same time which could account for the improved recruiting as well.

    They raised a ton of money for the football program, that could be tied to the move to the SEC but I think there were other factors at play, like the money made in the oil and energy markets at the same time.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/new-...-photos-2014-8
    I’m sure you’re correct in that both things have been significant factors in A&M’s improved recruiting over the past decade.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I'm assuming that football is pretty much the only thing that matters, so whether basketball is separated or not is mostly irrelevant. None of this is basketball driven, and never has been, and as far as I can tell, won't be. If that's the case, you would have expected the B10 to maybe care slightly about kansas wanting in...and yet, they didn't.

    Basketball is the little brother your mom forces you take to the party with you.
    You're missing my point. If the football schools secede from the NCAA and form their own association, they will likely take all their sports to the new association (as opposed to just football and letting the spurned NCAA oversee their other sports). If that happens, then they'll need enough schools to support an association in all sports, the difference between having 32 schools for football only and 48-to-64 schools to be viable in all sports. At that point, the 33rd through 48th/64th schools, in terms of moneymaking for the association, become desirable.

    All that said, I don't expect Duke to be among the 33rd to 48th/64th most-desirable for this purpose, and thus we will probably be left out in the cold.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I'm assuming that football is pretty much the only thing that matters, so whether basketball is separated or not is mostly irrelevant. None of this is basketball driven, and never has been, and as far as I can tell, won't be. If that's the case, you would have expected the B10 to maybe care slightly about kansas wanting in...and yet, they didn't.

    Basketball is the little brother your mom forces you take to the party with you.
    Given the Major Brand Football = $$ driver, I see the conferences, or some other named association of schools, continuing to coalesce around football, while other sports may or may not play in the same association. I think that we are going to see a smorgasbord of sports-specific associations.

    And the NCAA will become even more of a relic than it is now.
    “I love it. Coach, when we came here, we had a three-hour meeting about the core values. If you really represent the core values, it means diving on the floor, sacrificing your body for your teammates, no matter how much you’re up by or how much you’re down by, always playing hard.” -- Zion

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by hustleplays View Post
    Given the Major Brand Football = $$ driver, I see the conferences, or some other named association of schools, continuing to coalesce around football, while other sports may or may not play in the same association. I think that we are going to see a smorgasbord of sports-specific associations.

    And the NCAA will become even more of a relic than it is now.
    I agree that if the football schools secede, it will be the end of the NCAA. But a bunch of unrelated sports-specific associations doesn't make that much sense to me from a financial standpoint. Without football, I'm not sure the remaining sports make enough money to support the bureaucracy of one association, much less several. Since "football" is not really separate from the institutions, it would seem to make more sense to pull all the sports into the new association, along with football, so there's enough money to support the intercollegiate association. The difference would be that the big, moneymaking schools would be running the show (for all sports) and wouldn't have to be beholden to the hundreds of non-moneymaking schools, like they are in the NCAA.

  6. #546
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    You're missing my point. If the football schools secede from the NCAA and form their own association, they will likely take all their sports to the new association (as opposed to just football and letting the spurned NCAA oversee their other sports). If that happens, then they'll need enough schools to support an association in all sports, the difference between having 32 schools for football only and 48-to-64 schools to be viable in all sports. At that point, the 33rd through 48th/64th schools, in terms of moneymaking for the association, become desirable.

    All that said, I don't expect Duke to be among the 33rd to 48th/64th most-desirable for this purpose, and thus we will probably be left out in the cold.
    If the big schools just walk away from the NCAA, how do things play out for the NCAA basketball tournament? I just checked and CBS' contract for $770 million a year with the NCAA goes through 2032.

    As a Duke fan/alum I am obviously biased here, but it is really sad that football is completely driving the bus on this and I don't think anyone cares at all about any other sports, whether it is basketball, baseball, tennis, or anything else. I understand that money talks but this is just unfortunate.

  7. #547
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    If the big schools just walk away from the NCAA, how do things play out for the NCAA basketball tournament? I just checked and CBS' contract for $770 million a year with the NCAA goes through 2032.

    As a Duke fan/alum I am obviously biased here, but it is really sad that football is completely driving the bus on this and I don't think anyone cares at all about any other sports, whether it is basketball, baseball, tennis, or anything else. I understand that money talks but this is just unfortunate.
    every contract has some escape clause.
    1200. DDMF.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    If the big schools just walk away from the NCAA, how do things play out for the NCAA basketball tournament? I just checked and CBS' contract for $770 million a year with the NCAA goes through 2032.
    If there is no NCAA, the TV contract would presumably be voided. I expect the new super-association would attempt to put on a postseason basketball tournament with some subset of its 48 to 64 teams (maybe a 32 team tournament), but i wouldn't expect them to invite teams from schools that are not part of their association. Whether and how much CBS would be willing to pony up for the new tournament is unclear at this time. The remaining schools would probably try to put on a tournament as well, but without the big schools (and without legitimate ability to declare a "national champion") it would probably end up like a bigger NIT or, eventually, the Division II or Division III championships.

    Obviously all of the above is conjecture on my part, but to me it seems the logical conclusion.

  9. #549
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    If there is no NCAA, the TV contract would presumably be voided. I expect the new super-association would attempt to put on a postseason basketball tournament with some subset of its 48 to 64 teams (maybe a 32 team tournament), but i wouldn't expect them to invite teams from schools that are not part of their association. Whether and how much CBS would be willing to pony up for the new tournament is unclear at this time. The remaining schools would probably try to put on a tournament as well, but without the big schools (and without legitimate ability to declare a "national champion") it would probably end up like a bigger NIT or, eventually, the Division II or Division III championships.

    Obviously all of the above is conjecture on my part, but to me it seems the logical conclusion.
    Money rules all...

    I would not be at all surprised to see these big football schools pull away to form a NFL minor league and yet still try to remain part of the NCAA in all other sports so they could preserve the golden goose that is the NCAA basketball tournament. I don't see why they would want to do away with a $770 mil per year contract and I don't think they could get CBS or anyone else to pay anything close to that for an unproven rival basketball tournament that did not include traditional basketball powers like Gonzaga, all the Big East schools, and many others (perhaps including Duke and Kansas) who would not be a part of a football super league.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  10. #550
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    If there is no NCAA, the TV contract would presumably be voided. I expect the new super-association would attempt to put on a postseason basketball tournament with some subset of its 48 to 64 teams (maybe a 32 team tournament), but i wouldn't expect them to invite teams from schools that are not part of their association. Whether and how much CBS would be willing to pony up for the new tournament is unclear at this time. The remaining schools would probably try to put on a tournament as well, but without the big schools (and without legitimate ability to declare a "national champion") it would probably end up like a bigger NIT or, eventually, the Division II or Division III championships.

    Obviously all of the above is conjecture on my part, but to me it seems the logical conclusion.
    We're all kinda just spitballing on this right now, but if you're correct and that's the way it plays out, I wonder how legitimate the basketball champion of the super-association would be viewed by the public if the tournament did not include non-football powers such as Duke, Kansas, Gonzaga, Villanova, and others similar to that group.

  11. #551
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    If there is no NCAA, the TV contract would presumably be voided. I expect the new super-association would attempt to put on a postseason basketball tournament with some subset of its 48 to 64 teams (maybe a 32 team tournament), but i wouldn't expect them to invite teams from schools that are not part of their association. Whether and how much CBS would be willing to pony up for the new tournament is unclear at this time. The remaining schools would probably try to put on a tournament as well, but without the big schools (and without legitimate ability to declare a "national champion") it would probably end up like a bigger NIT or, eventually, the Division II or Division III championships.

    Obviously all of the above is conjecture on my part, but to me it seems the logical conclusion.
    I am fully on board with the upthread suggestion to call it the SuperAss.

    All in favor?
    1200. DDMF.

  12. #552
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    We're all kinda just spitballing on this right now, but if you're correct and that's the way it plays out, I wonder how legitimate the basketball champion of the super-association would be viewed by the public if the tournament did not include non-football powers such as Duke, Kansas, Gonzaga, Villanova, and others similar to that group.
    A Helms banner might carry more weight.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I agree that if the football schools secede, it will be the end of the NCAA. But a bunch of unrelated sports-specific associations doesn't make that much sense to me from a financial standpoint. Without football, I'm not sure the remaining sports make enough money to support the bureaucracy of one association, much less several. Since "football" is not really separate from the institutions, it would seem to make more sense to pull all the sports into the new association, along with football, so there's enough money to support the intercollegiate association. The difference would be that the big, moneymaking schools would be running the show (for all sports) and wouldn't have to be beholden to the hundreds of non-moneymaking schools, like they are in the NCAA.
    You may be right, Kedsy. My view is conjecture, no question. You make two important points: [1] the various "lesser" sports not being able to support their own respective bureaucracies; and [2] the big, moneymaking schools would be running the show for all sports. Taking those two points as true, do you see the major schools caring enough about the non-money making sports to support them? And what do you see happening to the schools without money-making football programs?
    “I love it. Coach, when we came here, we had a three-hour meeting about the core values. If you really represent the core values, it means diving on the floor, sacrificing your body for your teammates, no matter how much you’re up by or how much you’re down by, always playing hard.” -- Zion

  14. #554
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    yep...one of the best benefits of having futbol are the scholarships afforded to the so-called Olympic sports women's teams via Title IX...it's something of a bank shot, but without those 85 scholarships to men, we likely wouldn't see a lot of those women's sports at Duke.
    I'm not sure a lot of people "see" them now. I imagine live attendance at these competitions to be measured in the 100s, maybe often in the dozens.

    I've come to believe collegiate sports don't serve a purpose anymore, other than for big donors (I guess) and a very small number of athletes (in comparison to the student population). In fact, they've become antithetical to the university mission. Sending the Miami tennis team to Syracuse for a conference matchup certainly doesn't serve an academic purpose, or financial one.

    It's a money pit for many institutions, though the relationship between sports and donations is cloudy. The scholarship money could be better used elsewhere.

  15. #555
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I'm assuming that football is pretty much the only thing that matters, so whether basketball is separated or not is mostly irrelevant. None of this is basketball driven, and never has been, and as far as I can tell, won't be. If that's the case, you would have expected the B10 to maybe care slightly about kansas wanting in...and yet, they didn't.

    Basketball is the little brother your mom forces you take to the party with you.
    I'm a lot more fun than my big brother. So is basketball vis-a-vis football.

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Money rules all...

    I would not be at all surprised to see these big football schools pull away to form a NFL minor league and yet still try to remain part of the NCAA in all other sports so they could preserve the golden goose that is the NCAA basketball tournament. I don't see why they would want to do away with a $770 mil per year contract and I don't think they could get CBS or anyone else to pay anything close to that for an unproven rival basketball tournament that did not include traditional basketball powers like Gonzaga, all the Big East schools, and many others (perhaps including Duke and Kansas) who would not be a part of a football super league.
    The first weekend is all about the upsets not just the blue bloods.

  17. #557
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Cambridge, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Money rules all...

    I would not be at all surprised to see these big football schools pull away to form a NFL minor league and yet still try to remain part of the NCAA in all other sports so they could preserve the golden goose that is the NCAA basketball tournament. I don't see why they would want to do away with a $770 mil per year contract and I don't think they could get CBS or anyone else to pay anything close to that for an unproven rival basketball tournament that did not include traditional basketball powers like Gonzaga, all the Big East schools, and many others (perhaps including Duke and Kansas) who would not be a part of a football super league.
    I suspect that an NCAA tournament without any real Cinderella's would end up with a smaller media contract than the alternative. I suspect more interest in generated watching to see if Ohio State and Florida get upset by Oral Roberts than seeing if they may be upset by Nebraska.

    That being said, dividing a smaller pie among 4 conferences may be a better financial deal for these conferences than dividing a larger pie among 32 conferences.

    Another important thing to keep in mind is that the NCAA currently keeps 40% of the basketball tourney revenue for themselves. I suspect that the power conferences would be OK with seeing this change.

  18. #558
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by House P View Post
    I suspect that an NCAA tournament without any real Cinderella's would end up with a smaller media contract than the alternative. I suspect more interest in generated watching to see if Ohio State and Florida get upset by Oral Roberts than seeing if they may be upset by Nebraska.

    That being said, dividing a smaller pie among 4 conferences may be a better financial deal for these conferences than dividing a larger pie among 32 conferences.

    Another important thing to keep in mind is that the NCAA currently keeps 40% of the basketball tourney revenue for themselves. I suspect that the power conferences would be OK with seeing this change.
    much of the rest of that money is used to put on the other championships... which the schools would then have to fund themselves.

  19. #559
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    much of the rest of that money is used to put on the other championships... which the schools would then have to fund themselves.
    Yup, and believe me, the power football teams want no part of figuring out how to stage (and financially support) the women's field hockey national championship.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  20. #560
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Yup, and believe me, the power football teams want no part of figuring out how to stage (and financially support) the women's field hockey national championship.
    This is beyond preposterous. They’re not going to continue the ncaa because they can’t pay for the minor sport championships, lol.

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