B12 May Be Heading To Implosion

[hallcity]

Texas and Oklahoma are reported to have reached out to the SEC about joining that conference.

I suppose this won't affect the ACC but you never know what might happen once conference realignment resumes.

[CameronBornAndBred]

A&M says "screw that".

"We want to be the only SEC program in the state of Texas," Bjork said. "There's a reason why Texas A&M left the Big 12 -- to be standalone, to have our own identity."

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-want-join-sec

[burnspbesq]

B12 grant of rights agreement is a significant obstacle. Longhorn Network an even bigger obstacle.

[JasonEvans]

B12 grant of rights agreement is a significant obstacle. Longhorn Network an even bigger obstacle.

I think the grant of rights expires in 2025. Seeing as these things take a couple years to fully sort themselves out anyway, I could certainly see an announcement that Texas and Oklahoma are leaving for the SEC starting in 2025 (which could probably be moved to 2024 with a moderate exit fee by the schools to the B12).

Unless I missed something, I don't think the Longhorn network is much of a barrier as Texas would just take it with them to whatever conference they joined. The SEC Network will have plenty of programming with 16 teams even if they have to show a bit less Texas content than usual due to the presence of the Longhorn network.

I've seen estimates that adding Texas and Oklahoma would take the SEC's annual payout per school from $44 mil to $60 mil. That's a pretty significant change.

[JasonEvans]

Should Texas and OK bolt from the B12, which many are saying is inevitable at this point, then the B12 is gonna be on life support and would be in prime position to get raided. I am sure it would try to recover by grabbing schools like Houston, Cincinnati, or Central Florida, it sure feels like the more likely outcome would be other B12 schools going to other conferences. This will set off another round of conference movement.

So, what does it do to the ACC? I'm sure Jim Phillips is working the phones trying to figure out how to make this help our league. I suspect that once the SEC goes to 16, other conferences will try to do the same. Phillips has already talked about wanting Notre Dame to join the conference. I think last season's football experiment with the Irish probably made that a bit more of a possibility. In addition to Notre Dame, I think Cincy would be a great addition -- strong in both football and hoops and a new, robust TV market. West Virginia, from the flailing B12, could be another good possibility, though they don't do much for our football footprint. I suppose I could see us looking into Houston, but they would be a pretty big leap outside of our regular conference footprint so I think that would be really unlikely. Tulane would seem like a good fit from a geographic and academic standpoint, but they would really need to upgrade their programs. I think Memphis could be an intriguing addition too.

So, -- with TV dollars being my primary driving factor -- my wish list would be (in order):

Notre Dame
Cincy
West Virginia
Memphis
Tulane
Central Florida

-Jason "if we don't care about the whole geographic thing, then Houston really jumps up that list... but I don't see the ACC reaching all the way into Texas" Evans

[arnie]

Should Texas and OK bolt from the B12, which many are saying is inevitable at this point, then the B12 is gonna be on life support and would be in prime position to get raided. I am sure it would try to recover by grabbing schools like Houston, Cincinnati, or Central Florida, it sure feels like the more likely outcome would be other B12 schools going to other conferences. This will set off another round of conference movement.

So, what does it do to the ACC? I'm sure Jim Phillips is working the phones trying to figure out how to make this help our league. I suspect that once the SEC goes to 16, other conferences will try to do the same. Phillips has already talked about wanting Notre Dame to join the conference. I think last season's football experiment with the Irish probably made that a bit more of a possibility. In addition to Notre Dame, I think Cincy would be a great addition -- strong in both football and hoops and a new, robust TV market. West Virginia, from the flailing B12, could be another good possibility, though they don't do much for our football footprint. I suppose I could see us looking into Houston, but they would be a pretty big leap outside of our regular conference footprint so I think that would be really unlikely. Tulane would seem like a good fit from a geographic and academic standpoint, but they would really need to upgrade their programs. I think Memphis could be an intriguing addition too.

So, -- with TV dollars being my primary driving factor -- my wish list would be (in order):

Notre Dame
Cincy
West Virginia
Memphis
Tulane
Central Florida

-Jason "if we don't care about the whole geographic thing, then Houston really jumps up that list... but I don't see the ACC reaching all the way into Texas" Evans

And I’d put Baylor on the list. With ND and Louisville already members, there is no geographic “thing”. Much rather have Baylor than WVU from the Big 12.

[budwom]

one had to know all along that a conference called the B12 with fewer than 12 teams has to be in trouble.

[sagegrouse]

A short history of the Big 12:

Formed by combining Big 8 with four Texas teams from the Southwest Conference in 1996 -- Texas, A&M, Texas Tech, and Baylor. (Lots of luck, TCU, SMU, Rice and Houston!)

Lost four teams in 2011-2012 -- Missouri and A&M to the SEC; Colorado to the PAC-12, and Nebraska to the Big Ten.

Added TCU and WVU in 2012. (Sorry, we forgot to send your invitation in 1996, TCU.)

The only other major conference to have lost a school is the ACC with the departure of Maryland. (No comment.)

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

The only other major conference to have lost a school is the ACC with the departure of Maryland. (No comment.)

The ACC also lost South Carolina in 1971. The SEC lost Georgia Tech in 1964 and Tulane in 1966. The Big Ten lost the University of Chicago in 1946.

[Rogue]

Should Texas and OK bolt from the B12, which many are saying is inevitable at this point, then the B12 is gonna be on life support and would be in prime position to get raided. I am sure it would try to recover by grabbing schools like Houston, Cincinnati, or Central Florida, it sure feels like the more likely outcome would be other B12 schools going to other conferences. This will set off another round of conference movement.

So, what does it do to the ACC? I'm sure Jim Phillips is working the phones trying to figure out how to make this help our league. I suspect that once the SEC goes to 16, other conferences will try to do the same. Phillips has already talked about wanting Notre Dame to join the conference. I think last season's football experiment with the Irish probably made that a bit more of a possibility. In addition to Notre Dame, I think Cincy would be a great addition -- strong in both football and hoops and a new, robust TV market. West Virginia, from the flailing B12, could be another good possibility, though they don't do much for our football footprint. I suppose I could see us looking into Houston, but they would be a pretty big leap outside of our regular conference footprint so I think that would be really unlikely. Tulane would seem like a good fit from a geographic and academic standpoint, but they would really need to upgrade their programs. I think Memphis could be an intriguing addition too.

So, -- with TV dollars being my primary driving factor -- my wish list would be (in order):

Notre Dame
Cincy
West Virginia
Memphis
Tulane
Central Florida

-Jason "if we don't care about the whole geographic thing, then Houston really jumps up that list... but I don't see the ACC reaching all the way into Texas" Evans

Notre Dame is a must. The Big 10 will be coming after them hard and heavy. The ACC needs to suck it up, swallow it's pride and do what it takes to bring Notre Dame in as a full member.

Out of the others, West Virginia might not meet up to all of the ACC academic standards, but they are the best fit.

Two others the ACC should consider are U South Carolina. Maybe the bad blood between the 7 members they left high and dry has simmered. ACC members do play SC in most sports now. ( Where as the bad blood with Maryland is still very real ) .
The other to consider might be Kentucky.

Teams like Kansas, Baylor , Nebraska ( big 12 falling apart if Texas and Oklahoma leave ) I don't think will be considered due to geography. Yes, I know there is no geography any more, but if you're going to throw out geography then don't pick Baylor and Kansas to go after, go west to California lol.

[uh_no]

Notre Dame is a must. The Big 10 will be coming after them hard and heavy. The ACC needs to suck it up, swallow it's pride and do what it takes to bring Notre Dame in as a full member.

Out of the others, West Virginia might not meet up to all of the ACC academic standards, but they are the best fit.

Two others the ACC should consider are U South Carolina. Maybe the bad blood between the 7 members they left high and dry has simmered. ACC members do play SC in most sports now. ( Where as the bad blood with Maryland is still very real ) .
The other to consider might be Kentucky.

Teams like Kansas, Baylor , Nebraska ( big 12 falling apart if Texas and Oklahoma leave ) I don't think will be considered due to geography. Yes, I know there is no geography any more, but if you're going to throw out geography then don't pick Baylor and Kansas to go after, go west to California lol.

nobody is leaving the SEC for the ACC when the SEC pays out nearly 50% more per school. (32 vs 45 million/school/year)

And you seem to be confused in thinking it's the ACC that is standing in the way of ND from becoming a full member.

[budwom]

nobody is leaving the SEC for the ACC when the SEC pays out nearly 50% more per school. (32 vs 45 million/school/year)

And you seem to be confused in thinking it's the ACC that is standing in the way of ND from becoming a full member.

yep, ND likes having their own bucket of football TV money, there's not much the ACC can do about that.

[JasonEvans]

This would be very significant... if it comes to pass: https://theathletic.com/news/big-ten...s/1Fv1mfs4guai

The Pac-12, Big Ten and ACC are engaging in high-level discussions about an alliance, sources tell The Athletic.

Talks have centered around not just a scheduling alliance in football but in broader cooperation, according to sources in the three conferences. Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff, Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren and ACC commissioner Jim Phillips have been having conversations for several weeks.

None of the three have expressed serious interest in raiding what’s left of the Big 12, so working together is a logical next step and appears to be the likely outcome.

-Jason "this is a great response to the SEC raiding the B12. It would shift the balance of power, at least a little bit, away from the SEC and back toward these other three conferences" Evans

[uh_no]

This would be very significant... if it comes to pass: https://theathletic.com/news/big-ten...s/1Fv1mfs4guai



-Jason "this is a great response to the SEC raiding the B12. It would shift the balance of power, at least a little bit, away from the SEC and back toward these other three conferences" Evans

Yes and no. unless it involves money sharing across the TV contracts, it will always be a very unstable equilibrium. It could be anything from "we're in meaningless round table talks about the future" to "we are actively going to break away from the NCAA." While I think scheduling is nice, I don't think it solves the problem of the top schools wanting bigger slices of the pie.

[Sixthman]

I’m a little late to the thread and apologize for not having read all the prior posts. I grew up in Oklahoma and am an Oklahoma State fan. My ‘boys are a perfect test case for what drives college sports today. They have very successful and diverse athletic programs, have won national championships, and have been great at the top revenue sports in recent years. If all you cared about was competitiveness of athletic programs, any conference would love to have Oklahoma State. But that’s not all there is to care about. A few distant voices out there care about academics, and Oklahoma State is not in or knocking on the door of the top tier of state schools when it comes to academics. And then there is what seems to really be driving things, which is money. Here, Oklahoma State is better than you might think, but still not a huge draw, primarily because they are in a relative small media market where they are not the top draw (but, In this respect are better positioned than the Devils). Still, Oklahoma State has a large alumni base and significant concentrations of fans in big markets.

So when you look at Oklahoma State and ask would the Big Ten or PAC 12 want them, both of which have been speculated, it seems like the answer is no. There’s a better case for the PAC 12 , which I’ll skip. Of course, Texas and Oklahoma aren’t going to the SEC out of a desire to test their football metal. It’s just the money. I can’t resist the opportunity to point out that Texas has lost 7 of its last 11 in football to Oklahoma state despite a ridiculous advantage in resources and recruiting. It’s going to be ugly for Texas in the SEC. But then there’s the money. If you’re going to suck you might as well get paid for it.

Which brings me to what makes the most sense for the Big 12. Don’t just replace Oklahoma and Texas. Expand to 12 teams, and brazenly choose these teams based upon their impact on the next media contact. Houston, SMU, BYU and UCF come to mind. This is the best course for the short and long term interests of the remaining Big 12 schools. That is, if they focus on collective interests rather than individual interests. Individually, any Big 12 schools which gets a Big 10 or PAC 12 offer should bolt. Yesterday’s news of a Big 10, ACC, PAC 12 alliance doesn’t make much sense to me. It is a huge threat to the remaining Big 12 schools, and I think will prompt movement from those schools individually or collectively soon, and with urgency. These programs are in crisis mode and the alliance discussion is going to set them on fire.

[JasonEvans]

Yesterday’s news of a Big 10, ACC, PAC 12 alliance doesn’t make much sense to me. It is a huge threat to the remaining Big 12 schools, and I think will prompt movement from those schools individually or collectively soon, and with urgency. These programs are in crisis mode and the alliance discussion is going to set them on fire.

Interested in hearing more about the above. What do you think the remaining B12 schools could do that would be a threat or problematic to the ACC/B10/P12? It seems the point of all this is how little power those remaining B12 teams have. What action can they take that would bother the ACC/B10/P12? If there was a school to be poached from the AAC or other smaller conference that would be significant, don't you think the ACC/B10/P12 would be able to poach that team instead?

I think the alliance makes sense from the standpoint of not letting the SEC have too much power. If the three conferences band together into one voting block that schedules games against each other (and perhaps agrees to a different revenue sharing plan from those games that benefits everyone), they can effectively keep the SEC from imposing its will on all of college football (which is where the money lies).

[AustinDevil]

Interested in hearing more about the above. What do you think the remaining B12 schools could do that would be a threat or problematic to the ACC/B10/P12? It seems the point of all this is how little power those remaining B12 teams have. What action can they take that would bother the ACC/B10/P12? If there was a school to be poached from the AAC or other smaller conference that would be significant, don't you think the ACC/B10/P12 would be able to poach that team instead?

I think the alliance makes sense from the standpoint of not letting the SEC have too much power. If the three conferences band together into one voting block that schedules games against each other (and perhaps agrees to a different revenue sharing plan from those games that benefits everyone), they can effectively keep the SEC from imposing its will on all of college football (which is where the money lies).

I could be misreading it but I think you’ve got the intended threat direction reversed, Jason. It’s not that the remaining “Big” “XII” teams are a threat, it’s that this ACC-B1G-PAC alliance is still another threat to the standing of the remaining 8. So, you and the OP agree. I do, too.

[JasonEvans]

I could be misreading it but I think you’ve got the intended threat direction reversed, Jason. It’s not that the remaining “Big” “XII” teams are a threat, it’s that this ACC-B1G-PAC alliance is still another threat to the standing of the remaining 8. So, you and the OP agree. I do, too.

My bad...





-Jason "" Evans

[hustleplays]

My bad...





-Jason "" Evans

Dear Jason [When I make a mistake I own up to it, with humor] Evans,

Thanks for setting the Gold Standard for acknowledging your human fallibility -- and doing it with humor. Refreshing. And challenging. In light of your response, the penalty is declined.

[Daddylawman]

Dear Jason [When I make a mistake I own up to it, with humor] Evans,

Thanks for setting the Gold Standard for acknowledging your human fallibility -- and doing it with humor. Refreshing. And challenging. In light of your response, the penalty is declined.

Where's the damn like button?