DWBB 2021-22 Season

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

hard to give votes to a team which didn't play last year (effectively), and has had pretty much100% turnover since they last played meaningful basketball.

Duke will have to earn this on the court.

Also FWIW, if uconn stays healthy, I think they run the table...but we will see.

"Earn it on the court" is why I love college basketball. Nearly every team can still cut down the nets until conference tournaments start elimination rounds. Until then, EVERYTHING is on the table, and everything is yet to be earned.

You can bicker over the #65-68, but it's a meritocracy.

[dudog84]

With several highly ranked recruits still available (apparently Duke is only involved with #2 Kiki Rice), ESPN currently has Duke with the #8 class.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-...e-pac-12-teams

[uh_no]

With several highly ranked recruits still available (apparently Duke is only involved with #2 Kiki Rice), ESPN currently has Duke with the #8 class.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-...e-pac-12-teams

such rankings are kind of odd and prioritize depth over talent at the top. Like I have a hard time believing for one second a class with a highest ranked recruit of #19 is competitive with two top 5 recruits.

Lets ask this way, do you think oregon state or uconn have any interest in trading classes with UCLA? Or Uconn with the #4 and 5 recruit would trad ewith Oregon state, with #6 and 10?

But I'm sure "Uconn trails in recruiting" draws more clicks.

In either case, It's good to see duke in the mix again, and I would love if they land another one of those top 20 guys!

[dudog84]

such rankings are kind of odd and prioritize depth over talent at the top. Like I have a hard time believing for one second a class with a highest ranked recruit of #19 is competitive with two top 5 recruits.

Lets ask this way, do you think oregon state or uconn have any interest in trading classes with UCLA? Or Uconn with the #4 and 5 recruit would trad ewith Oregon state, with #6 and 10?

But I'm sure "Uconn trails in recruiting" draws more clicks.

In either case, It's good to see duke in the mix again, and I would love if they land another one of those top 20 guys!

It's ESPN.

I agree completely. I'd much rather have 1 top-5 player every year with a smattering of 50-100 range recruits than regularly bringing in a bunch in the 15-40 range. IMO there is a much sharper drop-off in talent among the women than the men. Duke needs to get a Breanna Stewart/Candace Parker type, or at least a few top 5s. I think we've made the list of about half the top-10 players in 2023, have to close on a couple of them. Would love to see us get Kiki this year. Talent follows talent.

That said, I think Kara is doing a great job and am excited about the 2022 class. The rebuild will not occur overnight.

Also, the new transfer rules are a real wild card. I think I'd rather have a proven sophomore/junior (disgruntled/coach fired at current school) who was 30-50 than a high schooler who was 10-30. But we need some top-10s.

[Phredd3]

That said, I think Kara is doing a great job and am excited about the 2022 class. The rebuild will not occur overnight.

Also, the new transfer rules are a real wild card. I think I'd rather have a proven sophomore/junior (disgruntled/coach fired at current school) who was 30-50 than a high schooler who was 10-30. But we need some top-10s.

I want to see high schoolers because I want to follow the progress of how Kara coaches them. She seems to be a really good speaker and a master of social media, but I want to see how that translates into actual coaching from the ground up. The 3x3 competition showed that she can manage players who are already established with elite skills, and it was a good test of how well she adapts to a new situation (3x3 s a very different game, to put it mildly, and her players mastered it quickly). But I want to see how she teaches fledglings and how she motivates players over an extended period. It would be a dream, especially, to see us land Kiki Rice, so we can see what wisdom a great college-PG-turned-college-coach can impart to a top-tier, but raw, high school PG talent. Kiki would also be an attractant for our 2023 recuits.

[dudog84]

I want to see high schoolers because I want to follow the progress of how Kara coaches them. She seems to be a really good speaker and a master of social media, but I want to see how that translates into actual coaching from the ground up. The 3x3 competition showed that she can manage players who are already established with elite skills, and it was a good test of how well she adapts to a new situation (3x3 s a very different game, to put it mildly, and her players mastered it quickly). But I want to see how she teaches fledglings and how she motivates players over an extended period. It would be a dream, especially, to see us land Kiki Rice, so we can see what wisdom a great college-PG-turned-college-coach can impart to a top-tier, but raw, high school PG talent. Kiki would also be an attractant for our 2023 recuits.

Yes, you're right. I like watching the progress as well. Not quite as mercenary as one-and-done, but not far removed either. However, one (maybe two) high level transfer every year or two in order to fill a need in the near term might be necessary. I think what Kara and her staff did with the current roster was brilliant under the circumstances. I got carried away.

[brevity]

It's ESPN.

More specifically, it's Bristol, CT. ESPN is lazy and lucky, because UConn is local, convenient, and perennially newsworthy. Just like how the Yankees and Red Sox comprise less than 7% of their league but about 93% of ESPN coverage. It's a really specific East Coast bias.

Duke needs to get a Breanna Stewart/Candace Parker type...

There is no such type. Breanna Stewart and Candace Parker were each one of a kind, transcendent, program-changing players, and the programs they happened to change were elite to begin with: UConn and Tennessee. For most years, even the top ranked recruit in girls prep basketball is not expected to make that kind of impact.

[dudog84]

There is no such type. Breanna Stewart and Candace Parker were each one of a kind, transcendent, program-changing players, and the programs they happened to change were elite to begin with: UConn and Tennessee. For most years, even the top ranked recruit in girls prep basketball is not expected to make that kind of impact.

Huh? I think you're missing my point.

Paige Bueckers
Caitlin Clark
Sabrina Ionescu
Haley Jones
A'ja Wilson
etc. etc.

That's off the top of my head in less than the past decade, I'm sure there are more. Any of these women would have been a game-changer for the Duke program.

[uh_no]

Huh? I think you're missing my point.

Paige Bueckers
Caitlin Clark
Sabrina Ionescu
Haley Jones
A'ja Wilson
etc. etc.

That's off the top of my head in less than the past decade, I'm sure there are more. Any of these women would have been a game-changer for the Duke program.

maya moore, brittany griner, skylar diggins

[CameronBornAndBred]

maya moore, brittany griner, skylar diggins

While an excellent player, I have doubts that Griner would have been a good fit with Duke.

[uh_no]

While an excellent player, I have doubts that Griner would have been a good fit with Duke.

i think she might have, as I hear in college she punched above her weight class

That said, I have a hard time totally condemning her, as I don't think highly of Kim Mulkey or her ability to build character...

[dudog84]

i think she might have, as I hear in college she punched above her weight class

That said, I have a hard time totally condemning her, as I don't think highly of Kim Mulkey or her ability to build character...

I was kinda thinking the same, but it again misses the point. These program changers (for a place like Duke that is on the edge) are not all that rare. There's one or two in almost every class. I could have added Taurasi, Holdsclaw, Catchings, Augustus, Lobo, Ogmuwike, Miller, Bird, Swoopes, Wiggins, Azzi, ...

Duke needs to get one or two to put us over the top. When you get to those last few games in the NCAAs, you need that take-charge player with nerves of steel and the indomitable will to win.

[uh_no]

I was kinda thinking the same, but it again misses the point. These program changers (for a place like Duke that is on the edge) are not all that rare. There's one or two in almost every class. I could have added Taurasi, Holdsclaw, Catchings, Augustus, Lobo, Ogmuwike, Miller, Bird, Swoopes, Wiggins, Azzi, ...

Duke needs to get one or two to put us over the top. When you get to those last few games in the NCAAs, you need that take-charge player with nerves of steel and the indomitable will to win.

Oh, I think we're in agreement. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to make the "punch" pun when it came to griner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8heo66ZxWA

For better or worse, women's ball has largely been defined by the top few players and thus, the top few teams/programs who land those players. Last year was probably the most wide open the sport has been in decades. I think there are two reasons for that:

1) the talent pool, while growing, is still nowhere near as large as it is on the men's game.
2) the talent, for the most part, does not leave early. While a few select individuals have gone early, it is exceptionally rare. As far as I know, nobody has ever left uconn early, for instance
3) I don't have data for this, but I believe anecdotally, the tail distribution of physical attributes beyond the "average" player is quite long. So when you do have a physical freak, they are simply going to destroy everyone. The physical gap between Griner and an average center was simply far greater than the gap between a great center in the men's game and an average center.

I think Azura could have been that kind of player, for instance.

I think we'll get those kind of players, but I can't fault them for not coming in droves just yet when the team hasn't played. If you're one of those kinds of players, you want to commit to a team that's going to be battling it out with the other programs, uconn, stanford, etc, for final fours and league and national championships. I don't blame a top player just yet for looking at duke and not wanting to take a risk on a program with a totally raw coach which hasn't played in a year.

I think once we see (and I expect this to be the case), this duke team coming out and playing good strong basketball, competing when they're on the floor, there will be a lot of interest in playing for Kara Lawson at Duke.

Now if only I could convince her to put Uconn back on the schedule

[Phredd3]

As far as I know, nobody has ever left uconn early, for instance

I think Azura could have been that kind of player, for instance.

I guess in your book having eligibility remaining doesn't count as "leaving early" if you have a degree? As I recall, UConn itself - including Geno - was surprised when she didn't stay for a grad year. But I can respect your definition, as it certainly does not detract from the term "student athlete".

[uh_no]

I guess in your book having eligibility remaining doesn't count as "leaving early" if you have a degree? As I recall, UConn itself - including Geno - was surprised when she didn't stay for a grad year. But I can respect your definition, as it certainly does not detract from the term "student athlete".

I had considered that, and it is certainly a fine line, but she didn't leave "early," she left when she would have otherwise left had she not transferred. I don't think having an extra year of eligibility changes that.

Similarly, despite the entirety of the team from last year having what will amount to a bonus year, I don't expect them all to stick around for 5 years, and I would not count that as leaving early either.

[dudog84]

Kiki Rice recently cut her list of 11 schools and Duke made it, along with Arizona, UCLA, UConn, and Stanford. Her parents both went to Yale, so (sorry uh_no) I just cant see her going to UConn. Plus with sophomore Bueckers and freshman Fudd there, it really doesn't make sense. I say it comes down to Duke and Stanford...but no trophies for 2nd place in recruiting.

Hopefully she's into real estate. Location, location, location. Palo Alto is a long way from D.C.

[uh_no]

Kiki Rice recently cut her list of 11 schools and Duke made it, along with Arizona, UCLA, UConn, and Stanford. Her parents both went to Yale, so (sorry uh_no) I just cant see her going to UConn. Plus with sophomore Bueckers and freshman Fudd there, it really doesn't make sense. I say it comes down to Duke and Stanford...but no trophies for 2nd place in recruiting.

Hopefully she's into real estate. Location, location, location. Palo Alto is a long way from D.C.

There's no particular animosity or rivalry between uconn and any other in-state school, including yale. people just don't care on either side.

So if she goes somewhere else, it won't be because of that. The availability of minutes would be the bigger concern. Though, Uconn's starting lineup this year will almost surely feature 3 5'11 guards this year, in Williams, Fudd, and Beuckers, and with Williams graduating, there would be minutes to fill. That doesn't mean it still wouldn't be a fight for playing time.

I think Duke has as good a shot as they've had of such a highly ranked recruit in a long time.

[Phredd3]

There's no particular animosity or rivalry between uconn and any other in-state school, including yale. people just don't care on either side.

Yeah, I could be wrong, but I don't think that was a comment aimed at either animosity or rivalry...

[Jim3k]

Yeah, I could be wrong, but I don't think that was a comment aimed at either animosity or rivalry...

Real Estate = Winter in Storrs or Durham. Durham is a clear winner.

Unfortunately, winter in Palo Alto is milder than in Durham.

[awhom111]

I had considered that, and it is certainly a fine line, but she didn't leave "early," she left when she would have otherwise left had she not transferred. I don't think having an extra year of eligibility changes that.

Similarly, despite the entirety of the team from last year having what will amount to a bonus year, I don't expect them all to stick around for 5 years, and I would not count that as leaving early either.

I did not mention it the last time you said that no UConn players had left early, I think in a discussion on Bueckers, but Megan Walker did leave early.