Name, Image, Likeness

[lotusland]

Living outside the Chicken Belt, I have never stuffed my face with Bojangles or Chick Fil A or Churches or Popeyes...none of them except decades ago in Durham I'd go to KFC and wondered where they found such scrawny chickens (seriously).
Should I have some Bojangles to provide moral support for our man Wendell? Or is eating that stuff primarily theoretical?

I hit the morning drive through for the biscuits and Bo Rounds. If the grease is just right, you should be able to see through the bag.

[LeadingEdge]

It’s clear from the court’s opinion in Alston that the Supreme Court as presently constituted would rule that the NCAA’s amateurism rules violate antitrust law.

Shaun Alston challenged the amateurism rule but lost in the district court. The district court credited expert testimony from the NCAA, which was based on a survey, that interest in college sports would wane if college athletes were professionals. The district court found this interest advantage helped NCAA schools sell tickets and TV rights, so it held antitrust law didn’t make the amateurism rules illegal.

The Supreme Court expressed skepticism about the district court ruling but noted it could not review it because Alston didn’t appeal it to the Supreme Court. Among other things, it expressed skepticism that an association (the NCAA) can fix prices in one market - the player labor market - in order to compete more effectively in another market - the sports ticket sales and TV rights market. Beyond that, the opinion contains language that’s generally skeptical of whether amateurism can survive antitrust scrutiny.

On top of that, we now have almost-anything-goes NIL rights for athletes now. The existence of such NIL rights undercuts (destroys, IMO) any contention that college athletes are amateur, especially in football and men’s basketball. Is the Bama QB an amateur? Thus, the NCAA would not be able to win again on the argument that it can hold player wage rates at zero in order to compete effectively in the ticket and TV sales marketplace. (Yes, I know players get schollies and other benefits.)

It would take about 5 years for a new antitrust challenge to make it from filing through the Supreme Court. Perhaps state legislatures will force an end to amateurism beforehand, as they did with NIL.

The NCAA could be proactive and repeal amateurism on its own terms. It could try to build in incentives to stay at your first school and to graduate. But it won’t be proactive, so it will get whatever is forced upon it, as happened with NIL.

***

When trying to crystal ball where college sports will be in 5-10 years, one must account for an end to amateurism. My guess amateurism will be gone in five years, and we’ll have a players union and a CBA with the NCAA or whatever organization(s) replace it within 10. I expect the players will get whatever percentage of gross/net that NBA and NFL players get. (Is it 50% of gross in the NBA?)

That will be a massive slice from college athletic department budgets. How do you make that cut? End schollies for all other sports except basketball? What about Title IX?There would be massive staff cuts, but that won’t be enough, right?

I hate unions, but a CBA generally is an exception to antitrust scrutiny. You can do field leveling things through a CBA, such as a salary cap and a luxury tax. Such things would be illegal price fixing otherwise. Sports need some roughly level field to be sold, so that’s where we’ll end up.

Congress could intervene and set whatever rules it wants, but there’s no sign it will do so.

[pokeresq]

Jay kicks the NCAA while it is down, but provides the clearest summation of where things stand and likely will go from a legal and governance standpoint:

"The NCAA is no longer the vehicle that will run college sports. The NCAA will take a step back from rules and regulations that govern college sports across the board and cede authority to conferences to make their own rules. That is by necessity. The NCAA has been ruled to wield monopoly power by SCOTUS, and any NCAA rules that restrict trade are subject to legal challenge. SCOTUS made clear that conferences, as long as they don't collude, may make their own rules governing the treatment and compensation of athletes. That is why we see the NCAA announcing a November Constitutional Convention, to decentralize power and deregulate, so that such decision can be made by conferences. The NCAA will simply run championships and determine initial eligibility."

For those interested he provides a scathing recitation of all the missteps the NCAA made to end up on the verge of being a minor player. For those of us old enough to remember, he analogizes to the AAU which used to dominate summer basketball but I had not seen referenced in print in years. The intra-conference fights about rules could be a convenient excuse for conferences to dissolve. For instance Clemson wants unlimited pay for football players and Duke doesn't, so the ACC splits up and we get the basketball focused with better academics conference discussed earlier?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/...g-happens-next

[hustleplays]

Living outside the Chicken Belt, I have never stuffed my face with Bojangles or Chick Fil A or Churches or Popeyes...none of them except decades ago in Durham I'd go to KFC and wondered where they found such scrawny chickens (seriously).
Should I have some Bojangles to provide moral support for our man Wendell? Or is eating that stuff primarily theoretical?

Given my limited faculties, I like to simplify. Following the NIL discussion, I come up with three NIL opportunities for HS and/or college students and/or athletes:

1] Celebrity college athlete: See: Zion Williamson. National/international social media following. This is about brand development and selling shoes, etc. If Zion had been able to benefit from NIL, he would have made $Ms. I can also see multiple athletes, even the entire Duke basketball team, signing these kinds of deals. Think of the Fab Five. $$$: Medium to Humongous

2] College Recruitment: Boosters/sponsors entice athletes to their respective "schools" by paying them whatever the market requires. [There will be competitive bidding, auctions.] The "cover story" doesn't matter: posing in front of a car dealership, running a sports camp, singing karaoke, leading Zen meditations, reading bed-time stories to aspiring athletes and NIL wannabes. $$$: Big Time to Humongous


3] Targeted marketing: Popular athletes [and teams] sign with commercial sponsors/advertising agencies to boost local/regional sales. Wendell Moore in the Triangle. [Let's brace ourselves for joint Duke, UNC deals for commercial reasons.] $$: Overall, less lucrative than #1 and #2.

Did I get this right? Please improve.

[hustleplays]

Given my limited faculties, I like to simplify. Following the NIL discussion, I come up with three NIL opportunities for HS and/or college students and/or athletes:

1] Celebrity college athlete: See: Zion Williamson. National/international social media following. This is about brand development and selling shoes, etc. If Zion had been able to benefit from NIL, he would have made $Ms. I can also see multiple athletes, even the entire Duke basketball team, signing these kinds of deals. Think of the Fab Five. $$$: Medium to Humongous

2] College Recruitment: Boosters/sponsors entice athletes to their respective "schools" by paying them whatever the market requires. [There will be competitive bidding, auctions.] The "cover story" doesn't matter: posing in front of a car dealership, running a sports camp, singing karaoke, leading Zen meditations, reading bed-time stories to aspiring athletes and NIL wannabes. $$$: Big Time to Humongous


3] Targeted marketing: Popular athletes [and teams] sign with commercial sponsors/advertising agencies to boost local/regional sales. Wendell Moore in the Triangle. [Let's brace ourselves for joint Duke, UNC deals for commercial reasons.] $$: Overall, less lucrative than #1 and #2.

Did I get this right? Please improve.

My bad, I forgot the NIL game-changing #4: As a prof, I hereby throw my hat into the NIL ring! The possibilities are endless, albeit perhaps beginning-less.

Integrity compels me to share that my unpaid agent/legal advisor just informed me that as a [meagerly] paid professional I have always "enjoyed" full NIL rights. I mildly chastised her for not informing me earlier about this. Tangentially, she also noted that even my most gifted students have NIL rights, but their prospects might not be that much brighter than mine. That helps a little.

[Dedgummit]

I think the thing is about "brand awareness" not that you're actually going to be convinced by somebody endorsing it. Just because Steph Curry is in Subway ad, I don't think anybody thinks "Ah, Steph Curry likes Subway! Must be good! I'll go there now." But unconsciously, you see it and Subway as an entity might come into your mindset more and IF they also deliver on the goods/quality, your inclination that was planted by Steph Curry may have had an influence. At least, that's the theory. With an advertiser like McDonald's/Coke it's all about market awareness and making it seem ubiquitous in some capacity.

Famous quote: "Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Having said all the above, if you're not a pro prospect in bball or football but are a reasonable "star" in college, one could easily argue that that individual should spend MORE time monetizing their transient fame (i.e. spending 20+ hours a week on marketing/advertising etc.) to get money in your window of opportunity rather than taking that time to marginally increase your academic standing and prospects. Getting hundred of thousands or millions at 18-20 is much more valuable than a $20k boost of salary upon entering the "Real world." The ROIs will definitely have a stark difference particularly on IMMEDIATE dollars (and we're an instant gratification society). So, yeah, I think a bunch of these guys will be having full-time jobs as professional influencers/advertisers/marketers during their collegiate years so they can capitalize as quickly and as much as possible. Even if it's not un ungodly amount of money, college kids will definitely the prospect of $$ and do what they can to maximize it.

I certainly won’t gainsay the latter part of your post— the time value of money is one of the most under appreciated aspects of investing, by the general public. Even a small sum, that gets astutely (and productively) invested early on in one’s lifespan, will often dwarf much larger sums invested later in life (in magnitude in retirement).

Moreover, without getting too crude, using one’s fleeting (and in absolute terms, modest) fame to secure any substantive financial rewards that might (now) be on offer as a “college” athlete seems highly analogous to using one’s fleeting status as a BMOC to facilitate a string of amorous encounters during one’s undergraduate years—putting aside any value judgements about either activity, both are much more feasible while that fleeting fame is in effect.

[Dedgummit]

Here is some data on the first month of NIL deals. For the tldnr crowd, 1% of athletes have made deals, with an average value of $923, there is additional info on sports, gender etc.

https://www.on3.com/news/nil-quick-s...-ncaa-new-era/

Is there sone kind of (enforceable) NCAA rule that these deals must somehow be reported to some “clearinghouse”? (I can NOT imagine that such an NCAA rule could have been implemented, so quickly after the Supreme Court’s ruling— nor that it would likely be enforceable, in any meaningful way.).

My reason for asking: Why would ANYONE have comprehensive data on what is happening in this arena? It is too fractionated and dispersed to be easily traceable, I would think.

[Dedgummit]

Not Duke OL but you don’t think there are people out there willing to fork some cash over at Bama/OSU/Clemson/etc. to get the top linemen in the game? That’s what it’s really all about. The top schools with the most well funded boosters can do some serious damage and they really aren’t in it for a nice monetary ROI. It’s all about the rings.

I explicitly addressed this, in another roughly concurrent post in this thread— it is widely understood and accepted that MOST of these deals (and associated payments) will have little to nothing to do with concrete, tangible economic benefit to the payor; the payments are almost certainly (and solely) for the purpose of bringing in highly coveted recruits, in the most visible (and profitable) sports— football and men’s basketball. Few (honest) commenters would argue this contention. My point is (was) that “college” athletes in other, much less coveted sports niches (e.g.- women’s gymnastics or basketball, field hockey, swimming, etc.) WOULD probably have to be able to bring some tangible level of economic benefit (a quid pro quo) to the payors, if those less coveted athletes expect to see any substantive size and/or duration to the NIL payments that they hope to reap.

[gep]

Given my limited faculties, I like to simplify. Following the NIL discussion, I come up with three NIL opportunities for HS and/or college students and/or athletes:

1] Celebrity college athlete: See: Zion Williamson. National/international social media following. This is about brand development and selling shoes, etc. If Zion had been able to benefit from NIL, he would have made $Ms. I can also see multiple athletes, even the entire Duke basketball team, signing these kinds of deals. Think of the Fab Five. $$$: Medium to Humongous

2] College Recruitment: Boosters/sponsors entice athletes to their respective "schools" by paying them whatever the market requires. [There will be competitive bidding, auctions.] The "cover story" doesn't matter: posing in front of a car dealership, running a sports camp, singing karaoke, leading Zen meditations, reading bed-time stories to aspiring athletes and NIL wannabes. $$$: Big Time to Humongous


3] Targeted marketing: Popular athletes [and teams] sign with commercial sponsors/advertising agencies to boost local/regional sales. Wendell Moore in the Triangle. [Let's brace ourselves for joint Duke, UNC deals for commercial reasons.] $$: Overall, less lucrative than #1 and #2.

Did I get this right? Please improve.

Somewhat already happened in the past. Remember the Wojo/unc blood transfer to 2 mice? Immediate fighting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kSnzrPjQrg

And, Bird/Magic Converse commercial... and Bird/Dr J Converse commercial. Also, the Bird/MJ McDonalds "shoot-off"...

Classics...

[pokeresq]

Is there sone kind of (enforceable) NCAA rule that these deals must somehow be reported to some “clearinghouse”? (I can NOT imagine that such an NCAA rule could have been implemented, so quickly after the Supreme Court’s ruling— nor that it would likely be enforceable, in any meaningful way.).

My reason for asking: Why would ANYONE have comprehensive data on what is happening in this arena? It is too fractionated and dispersed to be easily traceable, I would think.

Most State NIL laws and school policies (in states without NIL laws) require the athletes to notify the school of any deals they make. The data is from a firm which provides software for the athletes to make such notification. Duke is one of the schools using the software firm whose data was cited in the article.

[burnspbesq]

Duke’s King of OT, Joe Robertson, is one of the first college lacrosse players to benefit from the new landscape. Joe is one of ten players (five men and five women) signed up by retail chain Lacrosse Unlimited.

[UrinalCake]

Duke’s King of OT, Joe Robertson, is one of the first college lacrosse players to benefit from the new landscape. Joe is one of ten players (five men and five women) signed up by retail chain Lacrosse Unlimited.

Good to see the non-revenue sports getting a piece of the pie. Also nice to see a sponsor that is actually relevant to the actual athletes/sport. I know these are much smaller deals, but a couple hundred bucks to a lacrosse player may actually have a bigger impact on their lives than several thousand dollars to an elite basketball player who is a few months away from becoming a multimillionaire.

[bundabergdevil]

Good to see the non-revenue sports getting a piece of the pie. Also nice to see a sponsor that is actually relevant to the actual athletes/sport. I know these are much smaller deals, but a couple hundred bucks to a lacrosse player may actually have a bigger impact on their lives than several thousand dollars to an elite basketball player who is a few months away from becoming a multimillionaire.

Exactly. I tried to make a similar point upthread. Just because most of these players won’t get 6 or 7 figure deals doesn’t mean the opportunity isn’t still there and isn’t still valuable.

[Bluedog]

I think the "sticky" thread about compliance/boosters needs to be updated in light of NIL:
https://forums.dukebasketballreport...uot-NBA-Dukies

[uh_no]

I think the "sticky" thread about compliance/boosters needs to be updated in light of NIL:
https://forums.dukebasketballreport...uot-NBA-Dukies

the men's basketball team is going to have to come up with a change in their program formats as most "compliance tip of the day" are no longer true!

Then again, they only print like 50 for each home game, so most people don't get one anyway (speaking of incompetence within the department...so easily fixable)

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think the "sticky" thread about compliance/boosters needs to be updated in light of NIL:
https://forums.dukebasketballreport...uot-NBA-Dukies

the men's basketball team is going to have to come up with a change in their program formats as most "compliance tip of the day" are no longer true!

Then again, they only print like 50 for each home game, so most people don't get one anyway (speaking of incompetence within the department...so easily fixable)

Well, here's what's posted in that thread, and from what I can tell it all holds true now as it did then. JK's post is directed towards interactions with recruits, not current players.

Duke Fans, Friends & Alumni Compliance Information
We offer this link as a reminder that boosters need to stay away from recruits! You're considered a "booster" if you're an alum or fan or otherwise connected to Duke. As "this is a fan's joint," most of y'all are boosters.

Some of you have suggested contacting recruits. Don't! Perhaps follow them on Twitter, but don't "friend" them on Facebook.

Fans, Friends & Alumni Compliance Information

Representatives of Duke University Athletics Interest



A few highlights:

Only coaches and authorized athletic staff members may participate in recruiting activities.

DON’T call or write letters to a prospect.
DON’T initiate contact with a prospect or a prospect’s parents or relatives.
DON’T visit a prospect’s educational institution.
DON’T contact a prospect's coach, principal, or counselor.
DON’T provide gifts.
DON’T arrange employment.

You may notify the Duke coaching staff of outstanding prospects in the area.

Hey! Let's be careful out there!

regards,

-jk

[uh_no]

Well, here's what's posted in that thread, and from what I can tell it all holds true now as it did then. JK's post is directed towards interactions with recruits, not current players.

Sure. the CYA compliance tips in the program dealt with things more broadly.

[Bluedog]

Well, here's what's posted in that thread, and from what I can tell it all holds true now as it did then. JK's post is directed towards interactions with recruits, not current players.

I thought with NIL you can arrange employment/endorsement deals pretty much with anybody you want (including recruits for once they land in college, or actually even before they get to college)? Is that incorrect?

[grad_devil]

I thought with NIL you can arrange employment/endorsement deals pretty much with anybody you want (including recruits for once they land in college, or actually even before they get to college)? Is that incorrect?

NIL deals can't be used as a recruiting inducement.

[JasonEvans]

NIL deals can't be used as a recruiting inducement.

Good luck enforcing that one. There is a rule saying you can't use NIL like that, but I doubt the NCAA is even going to try to police it unless a school just openly flouts it in a way that demands action. I mean, don't you think that Nick Saban was using NIL as a recruiting pitch when he spoke about his QB making a million bucks from NIL opportunities?

I strongly suspect that when Duke spoke to Dariq Whitehead about his $500k offer from the G-League, Scheyer made it clear that there are ample NIL opportunities at Duke that cause that G-League paycheck to be pretty much moot in the decision-making process.