Name, Image, Likeness

[bundabergdevil]

Probably in very modest ways, at very modest levels… there will be Paul Rabils and Michael Phelps and Suni Lees— but most athletes are going to have very limited influence (and thus appeal).

Can you name a Duke offensive lineman on the 2021 team?

Is there even one Duke football player, whose endorsement would cause you to purchase a product that he endorsed? (Ironically, the one that I might be interested in, is the biomedical engineering device that a couple of Duke’s backup players, who were BME majors, helped design, in collaboration with Duke’s Medical School— which helped Duke QB Daniel Jones recover much more quickly from his broken collarbone a few seasons ago; but THAT is the exceptional situation which does not belie the greater truth: I don’t care about most of what Duke football players might choose to endorse— but then, I don’t care about most of what ANY athlete chooses to endorse.)

Well, “modest ways at modest levels” is still $$$. What do we think the Duke university branded total sports apparel market is? Tapping into some sliver of that is still an income stream.

What does a “brand ambassador” for a major US corporate earn to make a few appearances and wear the company’s logo? In my experience, a B-level athlete or personality might earn $50-$100k for such a deal. It’s not all Lebron and Tiger money.

So, yes, I do think there are modest income opportunities because there is some level of market out there. What? Don’t know but something.

[tommy]

I think that this paragraph summarizes the entire fallacy of the NLI concept. Beyond a very small handful, no one will be influenced by the ad program and, even those, will have transitory interest.

I agree with you. It is very possible, perhaps even probably, that I really don't understand the NLI concept and how it's going to work, but the way I do understand it, I don't really see many people being persuaded by any college athlete's endorsement of a product or service to use that product or service, or eat at that chicken restaurant. Maybe a relative few, but not many. I'm much more persuaded by the argument (made by someone on another thread) that the real impact of NIL money is when the Tuscaloosa car dealer and Tide booster pays the new hotshot quarterback $1M to hawk his cars not because he has any real expectation that sales will increase, but as a means to get the kid to commit to Alabama in the first place.

[Dedgummit]

kavanaugh's opinion was a concurrence, not the opinion of the court.

In any case, yes, no such limitation is being implemented, and the writing on the wall may have been there in the concurrence, but it was ultimately not what the scotus ruled and the change in state laws was what compelled the NCAA to act.

With all the click bait deceptive headlines one sees about various court cases, SCOTUS or not, I feel precision is especially important.

Well then, in the interest of precision:
It was clear (to me anyway) that Kavanaugh is not going to vote to limit “college” athletes’ compensation to JUST the extent of their “educational expenses” (whatever those may be)— and, if any future case trying to effect such a limitation were to come before the Court, from the text of the official opinion of the court, it does not appear (to me anyway) that OTHER current Supreme Court judges would do so, EITHER— despite Kavanaugh’s opinion being solely his own.

In that sense, I think my original statement (that the Supreme Court is “fine” with Suni Lee making money off of her endorsements, above and beyond what her “educational expenses” might be) is correct— and certainly, the NCAA’s decision to back off and not contest that state of affairs indicates that THEY TOO recognize that is the current lay (law?) of the land. I think your point would be both more correct and more relevant, if the NCAA had immediately made it clear that they intended to file suit to limit “college” athletes’ compensation to ONLY the extent of those athletes’ educational expenses— but the NCAA has not said that they were planning to do that— and their actions tend to indicate that they have surrendered on the issue of “college” athletes’ compensation— at least for the time being.

Maybe, down the road, the NCAA’s leadership (current or new) might get another notion— and try to enforce (or reintroduce) the “college” athlete compensation limitation that you believe that this Supreme Court has endorsed— but for now, it appears to be a “mute” point (with the Court [outside of Kavanaugh] choosing to remain mostly “mute” about “other compensation” for “college” athletes— and the NCAA choosing [so far] to remain “mute” about “college” athletes actually now going out and collecting those other forms of compensation). Legal malaprops are wonderful when they then reverse course and almost become “aprop”.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I agree with you. It is very possible, perhaps even probably, that I really don't understand the NLI concept and how it's going to work, but the way I do understand it, I don't really see many people being persuaded by any college athlete's endorsement of a product or service to use that product or service, or eat at that chicken restaurant. Maybe a relative few, but not many. I'm much more persuaded by the argument (made by someone on another thread) that the real impact of NIL money is when the Tuscaloosa car dealer and Tide booster pays the new hotshot quarterback $1M to hawk his cars not because he has any real expectation that sales will increase, but as a means to get the kid to commit to Alabama in the first place.

It must be some balance of the two. I doubt that Bojangles giving Wendell Moore money has anything to do with him sticking at Duke. But, as a veteran on the team, he may have some influence on Duke students or fans, and certainly in combination with the other triangle athletes endorsing BoJ, positions them differently in the marketplace.

I'm certain that there will be both implicit and explicit deals done before signing day that will sway some of these young men to follow a particular path to a particular school. That's a different ball of wax altogether.

Additionally, there will be players who think "wow, of the Alabama QB got seven figures from Company X, I should definitely consider playing there."

Lots of layers to all this. Interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[pokeresq]

Here is some data on the first month of NIL deals. For the tldnr crowd, 1% of athletes have made deals, with an average value of $923, there is additional info on sports, gender etc.

https://www.on3.com/news/nil-quick-s...-ncaa-new-era/

[LasVegas]

Probably in very modest ways, at very modest levels… there will be Paul Rabils and Michael Phelps and Suni Lees— but most athletes are going to have very limited influence (and thus appeal).

Can you name a Duke offensive lineman on the 2021 team?

Is there even one Duke football player, whose endorsement would cause you to purchase a product that he endorsed? (Ironically, the one that I might be interested in, is the biomedical engineering device that a couple of Duke’s backup players, who were BME majors, helped design, in collaboration with Duke’s Medical School— which helped Duke QB Daniel Jones recover much more quickly from his broken collarbone a few seasons ago; but THAT is the exceptional situation which does not belie the greater truth: I don’t care about most of what Duke football players might choose to endorse— but then, I don’t care about most of what ANY athlete chooses to endorse.)

Not Duke OL but you don’t think there are people out there willing to fork some cash over at Bama/OSU/Clemson/etc. to get the top linemen in the game? That’s what it’s really all about. The top schools with the most well funded boosters can do some serious damage and they really aren’t in it for a nice monetary ROI. It’s all about the rings.

[tommy]

Not Duke OL but you don’t think there are people out there willing to fork some cash over at Bama/OSU/Clemson/etc. to get the top linemen in the game? That’s what it’s really all about. The top schools with the most well funded boosters can do some serious damage and they really aren’t in it for a nice monetary ROI. It’s all about the rings.

Yeah that will be what it's about, I agree. So when it comes to basketball, is Duke going to have the boosters prepared to pay the kind of cash that the big football schools pay football recruits, in order to lure top hoops players to Durham? Seems like that would require a pretty big culture shift, and not one that would be welcomed by all.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

It must be some balance of the two. I doubt that Bojangles giving Wendell Moore money has anything to do with him sticking at Duke. But, as a veteran on the team, he may have some influence on Duke students or fans, and certainly in combination with the other triangle athletes endorsing BoJ, positions them differently in the marketplace.

I'm certain that there will be both implicit and explicit deals done before signing day that will sway some of these young men to follow a particular path to a particular school. That's a different ball of wax altogether.

Additionally, there will be players who think "wow, of the Alabama QB got seven figures from Company X, I should definitely consider playing there."

Lots of layers to all this. Interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Agree with you on Wendell - Bojangles isn't paying him as a favor to Duke. But I think this thread is proving the point. We are discussing Wendell and Bojangles. Which builds brand awareness. I am outside their footprint so though I am a fan, Bojangles generally isn't top of mind for me. But I am theoretically going on vacation in a few weeks (covid permitting) to an area where there likely are Bojangles. So am I more likely to go there because Wendell Moore supports them? Probably not. But now I am at least thinking of them, and thinking of them with a positive link to a guy I like so that does slightly increase the chance that I go to one.

Should Bojangles be paying Wendell lots of money for this? No. But some nominal amount for him taking a few minutes of his time to have his picture taken might make sense. And perhaps part of his deal is to do a 2 hour autograph signing at a local store and some kids who want to meet a real live Duke basketball player will convince their parents to take them there, either instead of eating at home or instead of McDonalds or BK.

[lotusland]

Not Duke OL but you don’t think there are people out there willing to fork some cash over at Bama/OSU/Clemson/etc. to get the top linemen in the game? That’s what it’s really all about. The top schools with the most well funded boosters can do some serious damage and they really aren’t in it for a nice monetary ROI. It’s all about the rings.

Bama fans are really in to Bama football but not basketball. The university can’t use their massive football earnings to pay basketball players so I’m not at all convinced that Bama basketball has a huge NIL advantage over Duke.

[bundabergdevil]

Here is some data on the first month of NIL deals. For the tldnr crowd, 1% of athletes have made deals, with an average value of $923, there is additional info on sports, gender etc.

https://www.on3.com/news/nil-quick-s...-ncaa-new-era/

Thanks for sharing. It will take a while for markets to sort themselves out but this is interesting.

So, I went to a high school in Texas with a nationally recognized football team. Local companies used the players to advertise ALL THE TIME. Now this was typically in the context of programs and other content that were funnels to the boosters but it was not uncommon to see the offensive line standing in front of a bunch of trucks for the local Dodge dealership or the QB to be smiling in front of lone star dentistry (or whatever).

I know for a fact a lot of these guys got little “perks” from these companies since the money didn’t go directly to them. Seems these high school guys could earn a decent side income stream - even the ones that weren’t going to college - so I see no reason why a Duke offensive lineman couldn’t.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Thanks for sharing. It will take a while for markets to sort themselves out but this is interesting.

So, I went to a high school in Texas with a nationally recognized football team. Local companies used the players to advertise ALL THE TIME. Now this was typically in the context of programs and other content that were funnels to the boosters but it was not uncommon to see the offensive line standing in front of a bunch of trucks for the local Dodge dealership or the QB to be smiling in front of lone star dentistry (or whatever).

I know for a fact a lot of these guys got little “perks” from these companies since the money didn’t go directly to them. Seems these high school guys could earn a decent side income stream - even the ones that weren’t going to college - so I see no reason why a Duke offensive lineman couldn’t.

Interesting that you used Texas, since they have a state law that prevents high schoolers from profiting. It is because of that law that Quinn Ewers is going to Ohio State a year early.

Ewers’ move to college marks one of the first major reverberations – and unintended consequences – of the NCAA passing legislation nearly a month ago to allow athletes to profit off of their name, image and likeness. He’s expected to make nearly a million dollars in the next year from endorsements, which he can’t while playing high school football in Texas. Ewers will end up arriving to college in the class of 2021.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nations-top...155809921.html

[kexman]

I could imagine paying money to have a gymnast come to my kids gymnastics birthday party. Or having a Duke basketball player come and shoot baskets. Is that covered under NIL?

[jimsumner]

Given your above post’s apparent emphasis on the literal meaning of the word “literally”, your post seems to beg the question: Were you not, in fact, already seated at (or at the very least, already holding) an internet computing device which would then have allowed you to review your previous comment (containing the word “compliment”)— obviating the need for any “running”— when you read the other poster’s comment that then caused you such consternation as to want to review your earlier post?

My head just exploded. Literally.

[budwom]

Agree with you on Wendell - Bojangles isn't paying him as a favor to Duke. But I think this thread is proving the point. We are discussing Wendell and Bojangles. Which builds brand awareness. I am outside their footprint so though I am a fan, Bojangles generally isn't top of mind for me. But I am theoretically going on vacation in a few weeks (covid permitting) to an area where there likely are Bojangles. So am I more likely to go there because Wendell Moore supports them? Probably not. But now I am at least thinking of them, and thinking of them with a positive link to a guy I like so that does slightly increase the chance that I go to one.

Should Bojangles be paying Wendell lots of money for this? No. But some nominal amount for him taking a few minutes of his time to have his picture taken might make sense. And perhaps part of his deal is to do a 2 hour autograph signing at a local store and some kids who want to meet a real live Duke basketball player will convince their parents to take them there, either instead of eating at home or instead of McDonalds or BK.

Living outside the Chicken Belt, I have never stuffed my face with Bojangles or Chick Fil A or Churches or Popeyes...none of them except decades ago in Durham I'd go to KFC and wondered where they found such scrawny chickens (seriously).
Should I have some Bojangles to provide moral support for our man Wendell? Or is eating that stuff primarily theoretical?

[bundabergdevil]

Interesting that you used Texas, since they have a state law that prevents high schoolers from profiting. It is because of that law that Quinn Ewers is going to Ohio State a year early.


https://sports.yahoo.com/nations-top...155809921.html

Well, guess I knew a lot of outlaws growing up. 😂

[CameronBornAndBred]

Well, guess I knew a lot of outlaws growing up. 😂

You don't mean to tell me that there are nefarious dealings behind the scenes of high school sports, do you? The outrage and shock!!

(Although I guess a million bucks worth of nefarity is hard to hide, so hello Ohio!)

[bundabergdevil]

You don't mean to tell me that there are nefarious dealings behind the scenes of high school sports, do you? The outrage and shock!!

(Although I guess a million bucks worth of nefarity is hard to hide, so hello Ohio!)

I guess I should have mentioned Quinn is/was at my HS.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Living outside the Chicken Belt, I have never stuffed my face with Bojangles or Chick Fil A or Churches or Popeyes...none of them except decades ago in Durham I'd go to KFC and wondered where they found such scrawny chickens (seriously).
Should I have some Bojangles to provide moral support for our man Wendell? Or is eating that stuff primarily theoretical?

You should eat it because it is tasty.

[jimsumner]

Living outside the Chicken Belt, I have never stuffed my face with Bojangles or Chick Fil A or Churches or Popeyes...none of them except decades ago in Durham I'd go to KFC and wondered where they found such scrawny chickens (seriously).
Should I have some Bojangles to provide moral support for our man Wendell? Or is eating that stuff primarily theoretical?

How do you feel about sweet, ice-tea? We're talking serious sugar content, here.

[bundabergdevil]

How do you feel about sweet, ice-tea? We're talking serious sugar content, here.

There’s a reason Jerry Jeff, Sammy Davis and Nitty Gritty sang about it.