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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC area

    Name, Image, Likeness

    Probably paywalled (sorry), but the WaPost is reporting that "the NCAA’s Division I Council recommended Monday that the organization cease its long-held amateurism rules regarding name, image and likeness rights, a seismic shift in long-standing policies that prohibited college athletes from benefiting financially from their talents and fame."

    Faced with the prospect of athletes playing under different sets of rules depending on the state in which they attended college, the 40-member NCAA Division I Council, comprised largely of athletic directors from various universities, sought to even the playing field by suspending the policy that prohibited athletes from benefiting financially in such a way. It said that the athletes could employ “a professional services provider for NIL activities,” and that athletes should report all such endeavors “consistent with state law or school and conference requirements to their school.”
    -jk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Probably paywalled (sorry), but the WaPost is reporting that "the NCAA’s Division I Council recommended Monday that the organization cease its long-held amateurism rules regarding name, image and likeness rights, a seismic shift in long-standing policies that prohibited college athletes from benefiting financially from their talents and fame."



    -jk
    "Consistent with state law." What could possibly go wrong?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    "Consistent with state law." What could possibly go wrong?
    "Our state is more lax than their state."

    New #1 recruiting pitch.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  4. #4
    We all knew this was coming. I see it as overdue. Let's get it all out from under the tablecloth and in the open.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Well

    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    "Our state is more lax than their state."

    New #1 recruiting pitch.
    Kentucky will be tough to beat.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    How do we get uniform conditions? Can we? Do we need to? If not, how do we keep college football and men's basketball from becoming totally professional? Do we want them to be? Nobody else on the planet does it the way we do it in the U.S. Do we come around to their point of view?

    We do know this has been coming for a long time. Which makes it so frustrating that we don't have anything close to a consensus on this and so many other questions. We want college athletes to be fairly compensated for their efforts. But can we do that without a Wild West free-for-all that leaves only a handful of schools competing at the highest level?

    Let me throw out a scenario. The Alabama AD and the Auburn AD go to the Alabama state legislature. They tell them they have enough boosters with deep pockets that they can fully professionalize Alabama and Auburn football without costing the taxpayers a single dime. All from private funds. And if we don't do it, then Ohio or Louisiana or Oklahoma or South Carolina will. Who's going to say no?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Really hard to see Duke FB and BB doing well under this new normal.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    Really hard to see Duke FB and BB doing well under this new normal.
    Except that as usual Duke is ahead of the curve on branding. You don't think a hot freshman's Duke jersey might makw that young man some money?

    You think Zion might have been able to translate his season at Duke into a couple of nice checks with shoes, jerseys, endorsements, etc?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    Really hard to see Duke FB and BB doing well under this new normal.
    How does Duke compete? Idk the answer but I suspect it will help me free 4-5 hours a week during basketball season.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Except that as usual Duke is ahead of the curve on branding. You don't think a hot freshman's Duke jersey might makw that young man some money?

    You think Zion might have been able to translate his season at Duke into a couple of nice checks with shoes, jerseys, endorsements, etc?
    Paolo Banchero says “cha-ching”!
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Except that as usual Duke is ahead of the curve on branding. You don't think a hot freshman's Duke jersey might makw that young man some money?

    You think Zion might have been able to translate his season at Duke into a couple of nice checks with shoes, jerseys, endorsements, etc?
    I highly doubt the players will be able to make money off the school's name.
    basketball is back, baby!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I highly doubt the players will be able to make money off the school's name.
    How does Zion sell a jersey if it doesn't say Duke?

    Regardless, my point stands about parlaying the Duke brand into making money. I don't see this as a net loss for recruiting to Duke at all.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    How does Zion sell a jersey if it doesn't say Duke?

    Regardless, my point stands about parlaying the Duke brand into making money. I don't see this as a net loss for recruiting to Duke at all.
    I suspect some revenue-sharing guidelines/arrangements develop.

    And if I heard him right at his intro presser, HCIW Jon Scheyer agrees with you.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  14. #14

    NIL

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    How do we get uniform conditions? Can we? Do we need to? If not, how do we keep college football and men's basketball from becoming totally professional? Do we want them to be? Nobody else on the planet does it the way we do it in the U.S. Do we come around to their point of view?

    We do know this has been coming for a long time. Which makes it so frustrating that we don't have anything close to a consensus on this and so many other questions. We want college athletes to be fairly compensated for their efforts. But can we do that without a Wild West free-for-all that leaves only a handful of schools competing at the highest level?

    Let me throw out a scenario. The Alabama AD and the Auburn AD go to the Alabama state legislature. They tell them they have enough boosters with deep pockets that they can fully professionalize Alabama and Auburn football without costing the taxpayers a single dime. All from private funds. And if we don't do it, then Ohio or Louisiana or Oklahoma or South Carolina will. Who's going to say no?
    I, for one, will not say "NO!" As a significant booster, however intangible, to Duke Athletics, I am wondering how I can monetize my rightful share. Syndicate? "Duke's got boosters!" talent shows? Ideas welcome.

    In truth, we will be seeing a fast-rushing tsunami of changes that will change the landscape majorly. The vestigial remains of the amateur model, at least for the major sports and programs, will go away. Leagues will reform and universities like Duke will have to engage in a challenging "value sort." Regarding Duke Athletics mission and values, what is our most important value/guiding principle? What is 2nd and 3rd? I hope that we stay true to Duke being a top-notch university which values excellence in learning, sports and character. How that would play out institutionally, no one can know as of now. I really hope we get this right.
    “I love it. Coach, when we came here, we had a three-hour meeting about the core values. If you really represent the core values, it means diving on the floor, sacrificing your body for your teammates, no matter how much you’re up by or how much you’re down by, always playing hard.” -- Zion

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by hustleplays View Post
    I, for one, will not say "NO!" As a significant booster, however intangible, to Duke Athletics, I am wondering how I can monetize my rightful share. Syndicate? "Duke's got boosters!" talent shows? Ideas welcome.

    In truth, we will be seeing a fast-rushing tsunami of changes that will change the landscape majorly. The vestigial remains of the amateur model, at least for the major sports and programs, will go away. Leagues will reform and universities like Duke will have to engage in a challenging "value sort." Regarding Duke Athletics mission and values, what is our most important value/guiding principle? What is 2nd and 3rd? I hope that we stay true to Duke being a top-notch university which values excellence in learning, sports and character. How that would play out institutionally, no one can know as of now. I really hope we get this right.
    This is a much more interesting question to me. I absolutely believe that players will find a marketing value to playing at Duke. The question is how far does Duke chase its own tale in pursuing this opportunity, AND how is it justified as part of the mission of the school.

    Compromises are made all the time. Some compromise is justifiable. Just don't sell your soul like that other school down the street. If you do that, I promise you will lose some "old school" fans.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    This is a much more interesting question to me. I absolutely believe that players will find a marketing value to playing at Duke. The question is how far does Duke chase its own tale in pursuing this opportunity, AND how is it justified as part of the mission of the school.

    Compromises are made all the time. Some compromise is justifiable. Just don't sell your soul like that other school down the street. If you do that, I promise you will lose some "old school" fans.
    So how will this work? Do proceeds from the NIL market get put into a trust until the player graduates? Or can they use the money immediately, after any split with the school, and after taxes? If so, do the hot-shot players get to have their own apartment or house... their own vehicles and traveling crews... pay for special tutors... charter their own flights? It can get pretty crazy in a hurry.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    How does Zion sell a jersey if it doesn't say Duke?

    Regardless, my point stands about parlaying the Duke brand into making money. I don't see this as a net loss for recruiting to Duke at all.
    duke could be completely free, as far as I know, to not license him to sell jerseys with the Duke name on it. and the NCAA might, and i wouldn't be surprise if ultimately DO restrict the ability to directly profit off the school. Otherwise, the player is literally just getting payed by the school. Remember, the SCOTUS only declared that the NCAA could not limit academic related expenses, and left them with a broad brush to regulate as such. Getting paid promotional money from the school for jersey sales licensed by the school would almost surely run afoul of an NCAA regulation.

    That doesn't mean the NCAA will do that...I just have a hard time imagining they WON'T. Zion can make a ton of money doing ads for nike or whomever else while not selling licensed duke gear.

    In Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, New Mexico and Texas, laws go into effect July 1 that make it impermissible for the NCAA and members schools to prevent athletes from being paid by third parties for things like sponsorship deals, online endorsements and personal appearances.
    Emphasis mine. Duke is not a third party. As far as I know, no laws restrict the NCAA from preventing players from selling licensed gear from their school, and I haven't seen anything indicating that is likely to change.
    basketball is back, baby!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Except that as usual Duke is ahead of the curve on branding. You don't think a hot freshman's Duke jersey might makw that young man some money?

    You think Zion might have been able to translate his season at Duke into a couple of nice checks with shoes, jerseys, endorsements, etc?
    Or he could have just gone to another school and been paid a salary. Am I being alarmist? Darned if I know. Maybe top players should be entitled to a paycheck. But unless we get some uniform rules, collectively bought into by all concerned parties, I just don't see how we avoid a spectacularly unequal playing field. Maybe we have a couple of dozen schools opting to field semi-pro football teams with a tenuous connection to academics.

    Back in the early 1950s the NCAA came up with something called The Sanity Code that disallowed "merit pay" for student athletes. But off-campus jobs were allowed. So, low and behold, oh migosh, it turned out that many of the larger state-supported universities had a virtually unlimited pool of boosters with a virtually unlimited pool of no-show jobs.

    Who'd a thunk it?

    So, bye-bye Sanity Code.

    I don't pretend to have an answer. The intersection of higher education and bigtime entertainment has been a Faustian Bargain since the late 19th century and in some respects I'm amazed this creaking ship has made it this far. When I get cynical or frustrated I wonder if we just shouldn't blow it all up and start over. This might be that moment and we may end up in a good place. But for that to happen, a lot of people are going to have to get together and cooperate and make good decisions for the benefit of college athletics and the athletes, not for their self-interest. How many of the NCAA, the United States Congress, 50 state legislatures, dozens of conference commissioners, hundreds of ADs, hundreds of coaches and millions of alums and boosters do we think are going to be able to do that?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Or he could have just gone to another school and been paid a salary. Am I being alarmist? Darned if I know. Maybe top players should be entitled to a paycheck. But unless we get some uniform rules, collectively bought into by all concerned parties, I just don't see how we avoid a spectacularly unequal playing field. Maybe we have a couple of dozen schools opting to field semi-pro football teams with a tenuous connection to academics.

    Back in the early 1950s the NCAA came up with something called The Sanity Code that disallowed "merit pay" for student athletes. But off-campus jobs were allowed. So, low and behold, oh migosh, it turned out that many of the larger state-supported universities had a virtually unlimited pool of boosters with a virtually unlimited pool of no-show jobs.

    Who'd a thunk it?

    So, bye-bye Sanity Code.

    I don't pretend to have an answer. The intersection of higher education and bigtime entertainment has been a Faustian Bargain since the late 19th century and in some respects I'm amazed this creaking ship has made it this far. When I get cynical or frustrated I wonder if we just shouldn't blow it all up and start over. This might be that moment and we may end up in a good place. But for that to happen, a lot of people are going to have to get together and cooperate and make good decisions for the benefit of college athletics and the athletes, not for their self-interest. How many of the NCAA, the United States Congress, 50 state legislatures, dozens of conference commissioners, hundreds of ADs, hundreds of coaches and millions of alums and boosters do we think are going to be able to do that?
    I mean, I acknowledge it's going to be a mess. I just see it as a more honest mess than what we have now. I think the players deserve this.

    Now, it may very well affect my level of interest in basketball going forward - in combination with one and done, transfers, coaching changes, conference changes... But to me, my interest in the sport is secondary to the fairness to the athletes.

    It's gonna get weird.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Just don't sell your soul like that other school down the street. If you do that, I promise you will lose some "old school" fans.
    I think the argument could be made that Duke did just that when K decided to go after the OADs full force, matching and then eclipsing Calipari. And I know for a fact that some "old school" fans lost interest because of it.

    I don't expect Duke to treat the NIL situation any different, and fully expect the school to do whatever they can to protect their #1 cash cow.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

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