The OFFICIAL summer practices/workouts thread

[Kedsy]

Same with Paulus and McBob in '06-'07.

Defense had nothing to do with the selection of Paulus and McRoberts as captains in 2006-07. The two of them, plus DeMarcus Nelson who was also a captain, were literally the only players on the team who had been in the rotation the year before.

[UrinalCake]

Defense had nothing to do with the selection of Paulus and McRoberts as captains in 2006-07. The two of them, plus DeMarcus Nelson who was also a captain, were literally the only players on the team who had been in the rotation the year before.

If my fleeting memory serves correctly, Javin and Jack White were captains during Zion’s year for the same reason. Bolden had a bit more playing experience but was in no way a vocal leader.

[Phredd3]

No, Paulus was a terrible defender. He was pugnacious, but he was really bad at defense. I think you may be letting the "gritty, plucky, scrappy" image cloud the memory of Paulus' skill set.

Perhaps. Defensive stats from 2006 probably don't mean much (they say he's decent, not great), and I certainly don't trust my memory from that long ago. Others seem to agree with you, so I'll concede the point.

In any case, I stand by my statement that Paulus had clear-cut leadership qualities that I have not yet seen in Roach. Accordingly, I remain skeptical that Roach is likely to be awarded a captaincy, which, after all, was the point of this discussion.

[MChambers]

I hope I'm not seen as piling on, but I remember Paulus as terrible defensively.

On the captain thing, I've never known how a fan can see leadership qualities, at least on television. Maybe, maybe, if you are at the game and have good seats, you can tell if a player is giving good instructions to his teammates, or or giving support to a struggling teammate. But I've always thought leadership is not a quality most fans can observe. I'd be curious to know if others here feel differently.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Defense had nothing to do with the selection of Paulus and McRoberts as captains in 2006-07. The two of them, plus DeMarcus Nelson who was also a captain, were literally the only players on the team who had been in the rotation the year before.

Never said defense did. You're responding to the wrong post.

[Phredd3]

I hope I'm not seen as piling on, but I remember Paulus as terrible defensively.

On the captain thing, I've never known how a fan can see leadership qualities, at least on television. Maybe, maybe, if you are at the game and have good seats, you can tell if a player is giving good instructions to his teammates, or or giving support to a struggling teammate. But I've always thought leadership is not a quality most fans can observe. I'd be curious to know if others here feel differently.

You know, I almost added a caveat that I can't see behind the scenes, so I can't really tell, but I decided that was self-evident. I don't get to see a lot fo in-person game, so my impressions from my TV was that Paulus displayed plenty of leadership qualities. Others who have had similar appearances to me off the top of my head include Laettner, Battier, Wojo, both Jones brothers (but especially Tyus), and JJ. I honestly have no idea which of those have actually been captains besides Paulus. To be honest, ironically, Scheyer did not come across to me that way (and I know he actually was a captain), which just goes to show that not everything comes through on the TV screen.

So maybe Roach is That Guy. I don't pretend to know for sure. It's just my impression, and we've probably spent far too long debating it.

[gep]

You know, I almost added a caveat that I can't see behind the scenes, so I can't really tell, but I decided that was self-evident. I don't get to see a lot fo in-person game, so my impressions from my TV was that Paulus displayed plenty of leadership qualities. Others who have had similar appearances to me off the top of my head include Laettner, Battier, Wojo, both Jones brothers (but especially Tyus), and JJ. I honestly have no idea which of those have actually been captains besides Paulus. To be honest, ironically, Scheyer did not come across to me that way (and I know he actually was a captain), which just goes to show that not everything comes through on the TV screen.

So maybe Roach is That Guy. I don't pretend to know for sure. It's just my impression, and we've probably spent far too long debating it.

Interesting... my vague recollection is that Scheyer "was" a leader from what I saw on TV... ymmv, of course

[jv001]

Yeah, Paulus's principal problem was that he couldn't live up to the hype of being the top PG in his class...his lack of quickness was exposed in college...

My memories of Greg's play is right with yours. He was slow on defense and as you posted, it was exposed in college. I think if he(young Greg) were playing football these days for Duke University, he would be regarded very highly by Duke fans. As for captains for this years BB team, I have reconsidered my prediction of Roach being one of the captains. He seems cut from the same cloth as Goldwire, too quiet, not vocal enough and did not show leadership qualities last season. However, last season was an uncommon year for college basketball and Duke basketball in particular. Having little to no preseason workouts really put Duke behind the 8ball.

GoDuke!

[flyingdutchdevil]

My memories of Greg's play is right with yours. He was slow on defense and as you posted, it was exposed in college. I think if he(young Greg) were playing football these days for Duke University, he would be regarded very highly by Duke fans. As for captains for this years BB team, I have reconsidered my prediction of Roach being one of the captains. He seems cut from the same cloth as Goldwire, too quiet, not vocal enough and did not show leadership qualities last season. However, last season was an uncommon year for college basketball and Duke basketball in particular. Having little to no preseason workouts really put Duke behind the 8ball.

GoDuke!

Captain or no captain, the fact that Roach was one of the two players selecting teams was highly encouraging. I have a half-decent idea of what Moore, Williams, Baker, Griffin, and Banchero bring to the table. I am less knowledgeable about Keels and, especially, Roach.

Here is the 24/7 scouting report on Roach before he joined Duke: "Solidly built, sturdy lead guard with average length and fine athleticism. Plays low to the ground. Plays through contact. Can score at all three levels. Strong with basketball and can find teammates. Willing defender with defensive prowess to defend either guard position. Solid mindset and good leader. Doesn't overwhelm, though, in any specific aspect."

That doesn't really sound like Roach, with the exception of the last sentence. He's a solid player, but he's not particularly strong, quick, athletic, or a very good shooter.

For next year, I could see a repeat of 20-21 with marginal improvement or, on the other side of the spectrum, a player who averages 15 and 5 on sustained 40% 3pt shooting and, as the scouting report mentioned, can score at 3 levels (yes, yes. I understand his 3pt% went up once Williams was on the floor).

I'm not sure if Roach is the key to next year's team, but if he shows drastic improvement, we'd have 3 reliable offensive players (Roach, Williams, Banchero). Not a bad place to start.

[Phredd3]

To be honest, ironically, Scheyer did not come across to me that way (and I know he actually was a captain), which just goes to show that not everything comes through on the TV screen.

So maybe Roach is That Guy. I don't pretend to know for sure. It's just my impression, and we've probably spent far too long debating it.

Interesting... my vague recollection is that Scheyer "was" a leader from what I saw on TV... ymmv, of course

Perfect. This way I get to be wrong both ways!



(In case anyone doesn't speak smiley, this was meant to be read humoursly. I absolutely do NOT feel insulted or demeaned in any way. I thought it was funny.)

[JayZee]

Captain or no captain, the fact that Roach was one of the two players selecting teams was highly encouraging. I have a half-decent idea of what Moore, Williams, Baker, Griffin, and Banchero bring to the table. I am less knowledgeable about Keels and, especially, Roach.

Here is the 24/7 scouting report on Roach before he joined Duke: "Solidly built, sturdy lead guard with average length and fine athleticism. Plays low to the ground. Plays through contact. Can score at all three levels. Strong with basketball and can find teammates. Willing defender with defensive prowess to defend either guard position. Solid mindset and good leader. Doesn't overwhelm, though, in any specific aspect."

That doesn't really sound like Roach, with the exception of the last sentence. He's a solid player, but he's not particularly strong, quick, athletic, or a very good shooter.

For next year, I could see a repeat of 20-21 with marginal improvement or, on the other side of the spectrum, a player who averages 15 and 5 on sustained 40% 3pt shooting and, as the scouting report mentioned, can score at 3 levels (yes, yes. I understand his 3pt% went up once Williams was on the floor).

I'm not sure if Roach is the key to next year's team, but if he shows drastic improvement, we'd have 3 reliable offensive players (Roach, Williams, Banchero). Not a bad place to start.

Wasn't Roach an off guard in HS? I'm hoping his lead guard instincts make a leap this year. And I'm hoping that Duke's PG recruiting strategy is a tell that they feel confident in his ability to make said leap.

And to my eyes, his stroke looks quite solid. With additional weapons on offense this year, I'd expect him to get a good amount of open looks. I'm bettering that we have a better chance at your 15 and 5 with 40% 3pt than him just showing marginal improvement.

Also, wasn't last year his first full year back after a major knee injury? That would also point to more upside than people might expect based on his freshman year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Wasn't Roach an off guard in HS? I'm hoping his lead guard instincts make a leap this year. And I'm hoping that Duke's PG recruiting strategy is a tell that they feel confident in his ability to make said leap.

And to my eyes, his stroke looks quite solid. With additional weapons on offense this year, I'd expect him to get a good amount of open looks. I'm bettering that we have a better chance at your 15 and 5 with 40% 3pt than him just showing marginal improvement.

Also, wasn't last year his first full year back after a major knee injury? That would also point to more upside than people might expect based on his freshman year.

Second year. He tore his ACL his junior year and, if I'm not mistaken, played all, if not most, of his senior year.

Maybe he needed 2 years to gain confidence on that knee. Not sure.

I hope he makes that leap. Hurt did. Moore didn't. Tough to tell.

[CDu]

Wasn't Roach an off guard in HS? I'm hoping his lead guard instincts make a leap this year. And I'm hoping that Duke's PG recruiting strategy is a tell that they feel confident in his ability to make said leap.

As a sophomore, Roach was a lead guard. He missed his junior year, during which time Paul VI landed a stud point guard ("Dug" McDaniel). So when Roach returned as a senior, he did play more off-ball. But both guys (and Keels) handled the ball a lot for that team.

And to my eyes, his stroke looks quite solid. With additional weapons on offense this year, I'd expect him to get a good amount of open looks. I'm bettering that we have a better chance at your 15 and 5 with 40% 3pt than him just showing marginal improvement.

I do expect him to be a better 3pt shooter this year. Sophomore guards for Duke have averaged about an 8-10 percentage point increase in 3pt shooting percentage over their freshman year over the last ~6 years or so. So between the extra year's experience with the longer 3pt distance as well as the improvement in talent around him, I'd definitely expect a notably better 3pt % from Roach.

Also, wasn't last year his first full year back after a major knee injury? That would also point to more upside than people might expect based on his freshman year.

No, he played his senior year of high school. He missed his junior year with the knee injury. I think the biggest thing that impacted Roach's freshman year was the lack of a normal offseason and preseason, along with just the typical challenges of a freshman going from being clearly better than his competition to just another really talented kid among many.

[scottdude8]

As a sophomore, Roach was a lead guard. He missed his junior year, during which time Paul VI landed a stud point guard ("Dug" McDaniel). So when Roach returned as a senior, he did play more off-ball. But both guys (and Keels) handled the ball a lot for that team.

I do expect him to be a better 3pt shooter this year. Sophomore guards for Duke have averaged about an 8-10 percentage point increase in 3pt shooting percentage over their freshman year over the last ~6 years or so. So between the extra year's experience with the longer 3pt distance as well as the improvement in talent around him, I'd definitely expect a notably better 3pt % from Roach.

No, he played his senior year of high school. He missed his junior year with the knee injury. I think the biggest thing that impacted Roach's freshman year was the lack of a normal offseason and preseason, along with just the typical challenges of a freshman going from being clearly better than his competition to just another really talented kid among many.

I had no idea Dug McDaniel played with Jeremy! McDaniel recently was Michigan's first commit for the 2022 class. Given he's undersized (listed at around 5-foot-9), but supposedly the fastest player in the Class of 2022, it makes sense that the team would use him primarily at the point and move Jeremy off the ball.

[Saratoga2]

Thanks for posting the scrimmage video- always gets me excited! I didn’t see Theo John. Injured maybe? Love the front line of Mark, Paulo, and AJ. If Roach can knock down the 3 consistently, pick your poison.

I didn't see Theo John in the scrimmage either. No one responded to the question. Is he not yet at school or injured?

[scottdude8]

I didn't see Theo John in the scrimmage either. No one responded to the question. Is he not yet at school or injured?

I thought I mentioned this earlier, but apparently he had class and had to miss the scrimmage... they posted a video with just him a couple days ago since you weren’t the only one confused, haha.

[TJ99]

I didn't see Theo John in the scrimmage either. No one responded to the question. Is he not yet at school or injured?

Duke MBB account on instagram posted a video of him saying he knew a lot of people were wondering where he was, but he was just taking care of some school work and now he is back on the court and in the gym.

[chrishoke]

Duke MBB account on instagram posted a video of him saying he knew a lot of people were wondering where he was, but he was just taking care of some school work and now he is back on the court and in the gym.

Imagine that, missing a scrimmage because of school work - only at Duke.

[jv001]

Captain or no captain, the fact that Roach was one of the two players selecting teams was highly encouraging. I have a half-decent idea of what Moore, Williams, Baker, Griffin, and Banchero bring to the table. I am less knowledgeable about Keels and, especially, Roach.

Here is the 24/7 scouting report on Roach before he joined Duke: "Solidly built, sturdy lead guard with average length and fine athleticism. Plays low to the ground. Plays through contact. Can score at all three levels. Strong with basketball and can find teammates. Willing defender with defensive prowess to defend either guard position. Solid mindset and good leader. Doesn't overwhelm, though, in any specific aspect."

That doesn't really sound like Roach, with the exception of the last sentence. He's a solid player, but he's not particularly strong, quick, athletic, or a very good shooter.

For next year, I could see a repeat of 20-21 with marginal improvement or, on the other side of the spectrum, a player who averages 15 and 5 on sustained 40% 3pt shooting and, as the scouting report mentioned, can score at 3 levels (yes, yes. I understand his 3pt% went up once Williams was on the floor).

I'm not sure if Roach is the key to next year's team, but if he shows drastic improvement, we'd have 3 reliable offensive players (Roach, Williams, Banchero). Not a bad place to start.

I believe Roach will be better this season, if for nothing else, the preseason work he'll get. He should be a more confident player as well. His shot looks good to me and I hope can shoot 35-40% on his threes. As for being named a captain, he might not be named one at the beginning of the season but Coach K can make him a captain anytime. I'm excited by this teams potential and depth. The season can't start too soon for me.

GoDuke!

[JasonEvans]

Look, I dearly hope Roach makes the leap. I want it for him and I want it for Duke.

But, if he does not or if he seems to be better suited to the off-guard than the point-guard, it will not be a disaster. From what I saw in that scrimmage video, Wendell Moore could do a pretty nice job of handling PG if we need him to. I thought he looked quite good out there and it seemed to me that he was almost always bringing the ball up court for his team, regardless of who else was his teammate.